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June/July Patch Notes

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by 2K Greg, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. vexing

    vexing knows

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    it depends on where you are in the tree and what you're opening. there will probably be a few sweet spots but in general to maximize RA output you'll want to research flat.

    you want to avoid having multiple lower tier techs opened, and preferably have multiple higher tier techs open. basically look at the spots where things branch out, if they're above where you are you want to finish the tech, if they're below don't finish it.

    as an example of sweet spot, in the current tree by completing electricity you open up refrigeration, radio, telegraph. if you have 5 techs available, one of those is going to be your median. refrigeration additionally opens up plastics/penicillin which would allow you to have 6 branches open and still get radio/telegraph as your base.

    an example the other way could be the wheel - it opens up horseback riding and mathematics. if you have 5 techs available, finishing the wheel in that situation will drop your median.
     
  2. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    Kevin, that's a really interesting question. I don't think that it admits an easy rule of thumb. (continuing to assume that RA proceeds are applied to the tech currently researched).

    There are two basic problems. As you barrel down the tree along a beeline, the neglected cheap techs start to require you to clear out a bunch of additional cheap techs in order to open expensive research options. However, you also start choking off options as you travel along the beeline due to missing prerequisites, and it eventually becomes impossible/expensive to get the next tech at the price of a single RA.

    I'd say that you will always want to identify two things: a tech that chokes off a large portion of the tree, and a goal. Then leave that tech alone, sign a bunch of RAs and clear out intermediate techs. Then you should rapidly achieve the goal once the RAs mature. Afterward, simply do what you currently do: research the neglected techs before the next wave matures. Repeat the process to maximize RA value if possible.

    The one potential fly in the ointment will be how overages are applied. As you probably know, if a Research Agreement gave you the tech currently being researched, your raw :c5science: production from that turn is applied to a random available tech not yet researched. However, the same mechanism that discourages the game from applying a Research Agreement to a tech also discourages it from randomly applying your raw :c5science: production to that tech. So my bet is that you'll still need to research your "blocked" tech to the 25% + 3 beaker cutoff to keep your beeline RA chain going, unless they alter that mechanic as well.

    EDIT: vexing has identified the tech that I expect to be "blocked" most commonly post-patch.
     
  3. maddogmark25

    maddogmark25 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
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    Location:
    Somewhere in Jersey
    Something that caught my eye:

    Increased Crossbowman and Chu-Ko-Nu combat and ranged strength.

    Yikes...as if multiple Chu-Ko-Nu's combined with GG's weren't strong enough...gonna be impossible to invade China by Renaissance :eek:

    I think if anything the Great Library should have been nerfed because every multiplayergame I play is a simple race to see who can build it first...

    Love the nerfing of RA's...one thing that this patch will do is test players and see how they can properly manage science instead of relying on early-game luck slingshots to get an early advantage
     
  4. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    hmm, true.

    The first two-three RAs (only 50% RAs taken) could be interesting, very dependent on your population and production ability.

    Archery seem like a good 'leave it' tech, but getting through mining->construction/IW might be tough on top of Calendar, Optics, HBR, Trapping.

    Though, I just had another thought. If the mechanic takes the median beaker 'cost' rather than the 'left to research' beakers, you could fill Theology up to 1 turn to complete, keep it around for the median on the first two (pop CS) have a 2 turn break, and finish with Compass/Education/Archery (or something) for the third RA which is then dumped into Education.

    take the time to finish Education while building HS (or use the Liberty GE), then follow up with the GE from HS to get the Porcelain Tower.

    You'd have to be careful to not get another RA until after you've cleared the lower part of the tech tree/opened Currency or Chivalry otherwise you'll have a problem RA split. At that point, Navigation is around (since you'll GS Astronomy) to be the expensive tech. Opening Chivalry will ensure there's another one around to boost the median until you clear to Renaissance and can use RAs to pop to Economics.
     
  5. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    Sep 29, 2010
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    1,376
    These changes are awesome. Just great to see how much work they're still putting in.

    Can't wait for this!
     
  6. The_Tyrant

    The_Tyrant Values Guardian

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    I thought this patch was supposed to optimize the game to increase turn speed??
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Where did you get that impression?
     
  8. The_Tyrant

    The_Tyrant Values Guardian

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    Because Firaxis made no effort to optimize the game in the last patch. Looking at previous patch notes, I believe the pattern was to optimize every other patch.
     
  9. MoonFlare

    MoonFlare Prince

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    I don't think this will be happening soon. Optimization consumes too much money. And they suck at it. Look at Stardock. SoaSE got a patch like that. That game was already optimized and looks beautiful. And they reduced the amount of RAM to 1.3 GB (http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/406435)
     
  10. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Seems like a lot of nerfing is going on. Only +4 happiness from luxuries now? :eek:

    In a game that seems intent on punishing the player for the very act of playing, this seems a bit troubling to say the least. Lol.

    Still, if they screw up some boring and lame strategies like slingshots and other gamey crap, it may be for the better.

    When the game is all patched up again, I will give it a try again as usual.

    At least stone is back. Good ol' stone. Nothing beats that. ;)
     
  11. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Seems like getting "professional army" policy is the best way to get happiness... up to 4 happiness per city from it you'll get. Gonna be using honor branch much more often now.
     
  12. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    Yay! The lack of XP buildings for ships & aircraft was one of the main reasons that I have preferred some of the mods over the vanilla Civ 5 game. For instance, you can build the "Area 51" wonder in Grave's "History in the Making II" mod, which gives you (I would have to look it up, I guess) something like 30 XP, so you can have a B-17 born with nearly enough XP to get the "Air Repair" promotion.
     
  13. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    Well, OK, I think we have agreement on your first point -- i.e., that the next patch might likewise make huge changes. But your logic doesn't flow smoothly from there. We're speaking of dedicated players here, aren't we, those who usually complain loudly on this forum that Civ V is way too easy? So, don't you think these dedicated players will welcome the opportunity to try their stuff with a harder game (or at least with a game requiring new strategies, etc.)? Then, three months later, don't you think these same dedicated players will have totally mastered the game again and will welcome new challenges?
     
  14. piato

    piato Chieftain

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    I thought I'd register just to cheer the happiness-building nerf, which has been criticized a lot here but seems to me the most needed aspect of this patch. I'm not a particularly strong Civ player - I played Civ 4 on prince and found it endlessly challenging - but I'd read one Sulla game report before I started playing Civ5, and found to my surprise that I could absolutely bash Prince from my very first game, and later beat King, just by expanding continuously, making friends with maritime city states, and putting aside all other concerns. This is without knowing that one was supposed to build the National College, or spam RAs, or slingshot to anything in particular, all of which I've found out from reading this thread! So I'm delighted to see things evolving back towards the stage where I have to actually think and try to learn the game.
     
  15. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    You aren't one of the experienced players who have been complaining that Civ V is way too easy, are you?;)
     
  16. os84

    os84 Chieftain

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    Finally.. :goodjob: looking forward for some realistic AI behaviour
     
  17. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    So I can't build a socialist democracy for my people anymore, how disappointing. I'm also confused why universal sufferage did not receive a boast. Are all three mutually exclusive, or just "freedom" against "autocracy or order"? As in can I have autocracy and order together?

    Got formula for gold? I presume it depends on turn number and strength of unit? Looks difficult to balance.

    Does it also affect research labs? Or are people in lab coats "inhumane"?
     
  18. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    This is a totally new feature, isn't it? These "Policy Finishers" effectively give you one additional policy per tree. This seems like a very important (huge?) feature; yet it has been discussed on this thread only in the sense of fait accompli and not on its merit. So, for whatever it's worth, I like it!:goodjob:
     
  19. Agent Cooper

    Agent Cooper Lynch's Creation

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    The idea of Policy Finishers is great, but the implementation sort of 'meh'. Half of them were included as independent SPs pre-patch (some basically the same, some a bit better/worse) and as such, didn't take a full tree to get. Then some seem weak (Rationalism/Commerce/Order) while some seem very overpowered in comparison (Freedom).

    It's basically the old school CiV discussion concerning features that are great in idea/design, but the implementation not so great.
     
  20. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

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    I really like this. Its like you have to choose between Communism, Capitalism and Fascism.

    For aggressive civs Honor + Piety + Autocracy seems like a good way to go. Lots of happiness and military buffs.
     

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