June/July Patch Notes

[vexing]

Will it be better, as a rule of thumb, to clear out cheap techs or to push the top tier techs in order to keep the median as high as possible.
...
I really don't want to go through the tedium of working this kind of thing out for each case when I'm playing a game, I want a simple rule of thumb - any suggestions?

it depends on where you are in the tree and what you're opening. there will probably be a few sweet spots but in general to maximize RA output you'll want to research flat.

you want to avoid having multiple lower tier techs opened, and preferably have multiple higher tier techs open. basically look at the spots where things branch out, if they're above where you are you want to finish the tech, if they're below don't finish it.

as an example of sweet spot, in the current tree by completing electricity you open up refrigeration, radio, telegraph. if you have 5 techs available, one of those is going to be your median. refrigeration additionally opens up plastics/penicillin which would allow you to have 6 branches open and still get radio/telegraph as your base.

an example the other way could be the wheel - it opens up horseback riding and mathematics. if you have 5 techs available, finishing the wheel in that situation will drop your median.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Kevin, that's a really interesting question. I don't think that it admits an easy rule of thumb. (continuing to assume that RA proceeds are applied to the tech currently researched).

There are two basic problems. As you barrel down the tree along a beeline, the neglected cheap techs start to require you to clear out a bunch of additional cheap techs in order to open expensive research options. However, you also start choking off options as you travel along the beeline due to missing prerequisites, and it eventually becomes impossible/expensive to get the next tech at the price of a single RA.

I'd say that you will always want to identify two things: a tech that chokes off a large portion of the tree, and a goal. Then leave that tech alone, sign a bunch of RAs and clear out intermediate techs. Then you should rapidly achieve the goal once the RAs mature. Afterward, simply do what you currently do: research the neglected techs before the next wave matures. Repeat the process to maximize RA value if possible.

The one potential fly in the ointment will be how overages are applied. As you probably know, if a Research Agreement gave you the tech currently being researched, your raw production from that turn is applied to a random available tech not yet researched. However, the same mechanism that discourages the game from applying a Research Agreement to a tech also discourages it from randomly applying your raw production to that tech. So my bet is that you'll still need to research your "blocked" tech to the 25% + 3 beaker cutoff to keep your beeline RA chain going, unless they alter that mechanic as well.

EDIT: vexing has identified the tech that I expect to be "blocked" most commonly post-patch.

 

[maddogmark25]

Something that caught my eye:

Increased Crossbowman and Chu-Ko-Nu combat and ranged strength.

Yikes...as if multiple Chu-Ko-Nu's combined with GG's weren't strong enough...gonna be impossible to invade China by Renaissance

I think if anything the Great Library should have been nerfed because every multiplayergame I play is a simple race to see who can build it first...

Love the nerfing of RA's...one thing that this patch will do is test players and see how they can properly manage science instead of relying on early-game luck slingshots to get an early advantage

 

[MadDjinn]

Right, but if you make a "top" tech off the beeline available for research early, you can then use it to scale the median value to keep pace with your beeline. Compass is ideal for this, because it can be opened early by researching a single cheap tech and is necessary to the beeline anyway. The only substantive changes to current standard procedure are that you finish Sailing/Optics rather than block them, and you finish out the off-beeline Classical techs. That does slow things down, but only by a few turns.

hmm, true.

The first two-three RAs (only 50% RAs taken) could be interesting, very dependent on your population and production ability.

Archery seem like a good 'leave it' tech, but getting through mining->construction/IW might be tough on top of Calendar, Optics, HBR, Trapping.

Though, I just had another thought. If the mechanic takes the median beaker 'cost' rather than the 'left to research' beakers, you could fill Theology up to 1 turn to complete, keep it around for the median on the first two (pop CS) have a 2 turn break, and finish with Compass/Education/Archery (or something) for the third RA which is then dumped into Education.

take the time to finish Education while building HS (or use the Liberty GE), then follow up with the GE from HS to get the Porcelain Tower.

You'd have to be careful to not get another RA until after you've cleared the lower part of the tech tree/opened Currency or Chivalry otherwise you'll have a problem RA split. At that point, Navigation is around (since you'll GS Astronomy) to be the expensive tech. Opening Chivalry will ensure there's another one around to boost the median until you clear to Renaissance and can use RAs to pop to Economics.

 

[CYZ]

These changes are awesome. Just great to see how much work they're still putting in.

Can't wait for this!

 

[The_Tyrant]

I thought this patch was supposed to optimize the game to increase turn speed??

 

[Valkrionn]

I thought this patch was supposed to optimize the game to increase turn speed??

Where did you get that impression?

 

[The_Tyrant]

Where did you get that impression?

Because Firaxis made no effort to optimize the game in the last patch. Looking at previous patch notes, I believe the pattern was to optimize every other patch.

 

[MoonFlare]

Because Firaxis made no effort to optimize the game in the last patch. Looking at previous patch notes, I believe the pattern was to optimize every other patch.

I don't think this will be happening soon. Optimization consumes too much money. And they suck at it. Look at Stardock. SoaSE got a patch like that. That game was already optimized and looks beautiful. And they reduced the amount of RAM to 1.3 GB (http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/406435)

 

[Thormodr]

Seems like a lot of nerfing is going on. Only +4 happiness from luxuries now?

In a game that seems intent on punishing the player for the very act of playing, this seems a bit troubling to say the least. Lol.

Still, if they screw up some boring and lame strategies like slingshots and other gamey crap, it may be for the better.

When the game is all patched up again, I will give it a try again as usual.

At least stone is back. Good ol' stone. Nothing beats that.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Seems like getting "professional army" policy is the best way to get happiness... up to 4 happiness per city from it you'll get. Gonna be using honor branch much more often now.

 

[wcbarney]

I think it means naval and air units will get the experience too, which is very nice.

Yay! The lack of XP buildings for ships & aircraft was one of the main reasons that I have preferred some of the mods over the vanilla Civ 5 game. For instance, you can build the "Area 51" wonder in Grave's "History in the Making II" mod, which gives you (I would have to look it up, I guess) something like 30 XP, so you can have a B-17 born with nearly enough XP to get the "Air Repair" promotion.

 

[wcbarney]

... this patch sends a message from the developers to the players, that the next patch might likewise make huge changes to the game, so why bother with learning new strategies, getting familiar with the new updates etc., if everything changes again the next time?...

Well, OK, I think we have agreement on your first point -- i.e., that the next patch might likewise make huge changes. But your logic doesn't flow smoothly from there. We're speaking of dedicated players here, aren't we, those who usually complain loudly on this forum that Civ V is way too easy? So, don't you think these dedicated players will welcome the opportunity to try their stuff with a harder game (or at least with a game requiring new strategies, etc.)? Then, three months later, don't you think these same dedicated players will have totally mastered the game again and will welcome new challenges?

 

[piato]

I thought I'd register just to cheer the happiness-building nerf, which has been criticized a lot here but seems to me the most needed aspect of this patch. I'm not a particularly strong Civ player - I played Civ 4 on prince and found it endlessly challenging - but I'd read one Sulla game report before I started playing Civ5, and found to my surprise that I could absolutely bash Prince from my very first game, and later beat King, just by expanding continuously, making friends with maritime city states, and putting aside all other concerns. This is without knowing that one was supposed to build the National College, or spam RAs, or slingshot to anything in particular, all of which I've found out from reading this thread! So I'm delighted to see things evolving back towards the stage where I have to actually think and try to learn the game.

 

[wcbarney]

... - nothing I see in the patch notes makes me feel comfortable about being able to "catch up" easily playing as America on Immortal, for instance. Maybe it'll be do-able, but I predict it's not going to be easy.

You aren't one of the experienced players who have been complaining that Civ V is way too easy, are you?

 

[os84]

AI remembers if you fought against a common foe

Finally.. looking forward for some realistic AI behaviour

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Freedom, Autocracy and Order are now mutually exclusive.

So I can't build a socialist democracy for my people anymore, how disappointing. I'm also confused why universal sufferage did not receive a boast. Are all three mutually exclusive, or just "freedom" against "autocracy or order"? As in can I have autocracy and order together?

Honor Finisher: Grants gold for each enemy unit killed.

Got formula for gold? I presume it depends on turn number and strength of unit? Looks difficult to balance.

Humanism now also affects Public Schools and Observatories.

Does it also affect research labs? Or are people in lab coats "inhumane"?

 

[wcbarney]

• Policy “Finishers” added to all 10 policy trees. Taking all policies in a tree will grant an additional bonus effect. See policy notes below for more information.
  • Tradition Finisher: +15% Growth and +2 Food in each city.
  • Liberty Finisher: Great Person of your choice.
  • Honor Finisher: Grants gold for each enemy unit killed.
  • Piety Finisher: -10% Culture cost of future Policies.
  • Patronage Finisher: Causes other players’ influence with City States to decrease 33% more per turn than usual.
  • Commerce Finisher: +1 Gold per Specialist.
  • Rationalism Finisher: +1 Gold from Science buildings.
  • Freedom Finisher: +100% yield from Great Tile Improvements and increase length of Golden Ages by 50%.
  • Autocracy Finisher: 30 turn attack bonus of +20%.
  • Order Finisher: +1 Food/Production/Science/Gold/Culture per city.

This is a totally new feature, isn't it? These "Policy Finishers" effectively give you one additional policy per tree. This seems like a very important (huge?) feature; yet it has been discussed on this thread only in the sense of fait accompli and not on its merit. So, for whatever it's worth, I like it!

 

[Agent Cooper]

This is a totally new feature, isn't it? These "Policy Finishers" effectively give you one additional policy per tree. This seems like a very important (huge?) feature; yet it has been discussed only in the sense of fait accompli and not on its merit. So, for whatever it's worth, I like it!

The idea of Policy Finishers is great, but the implementation sort of 'meh'. Half of them were included as independent SPs pre-patch (some basically the same, some a bit better/worse) and as such, didn't take a full tree to get. Then some seem weak (Rationalism/Commerce/Order) while some seem very overpowered in comparison (Freedom).

It's basically the old school CiV discussion concerning features that are great in idea/design, but the implementation not so great.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Freedom, Autocracy and Order are now mutually exclusive.

I really like this. Its like you have to choose between Communism, Capitalism and Fascism.

For aggressive civs Honor + Piety + Autocracy seems like a good way to go. Lots of happiness and military buffs.