June/July Patch Notes

[vexing]

Again and again and again:

"Accuracy" and "Barrage" promotions are *NOT*(!!!) lost, when upgrading range units! They actually *STACK*(!!!) with their meele correspondent!
This might give you a stunning +130% bonus, when fully promoted with both lines!

they don't.
people are always confused about this because the combat box still lists both, however only melee bonuses apply to melee combat. check out the resulting odds, for example a crossbowman with accuracy 3 promoted to a rifleman attacking into open terrain will have it's combat strength still listed as 25, even though it says +65%.

 

[The_J]

Just a question in regards to the hotseat. Will this option be available for LAN and Internet games or is it going to be a different option entirely for playing the game on 1 computer?

The definition of Hot Seat is, that you play with another person at 1 computer, doing your turn after each other .
The patch notes say, that you'll be able to save after your turn, send the save to a friend, who can do the same, and so on (that's meant as intermediate solution until the right PBEM has been implemented).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It's not an ego thing. It's that the late game is easier than the early game.

A lot of people like to play late-game for all the different unit types, air defense, fancy ship types, etc. The problem is that as the game gets more tactically complex the AI's ability to compete suffers. (Though it does benefit from stack-o-doom piles of fighters, that's the only thing the AI seems to manage well - it's terrible at naval combat, it needs the extra units there.)

If you drop down to an easier level where the AI doesn't have significant steady-state bonuses just to get around the early difficulty "hump", the late game isn't competitive.

Well yeah, that's true. Haha, I normally want to start a new game and a different map and situation before finishing.

 

[Civsassin]

It's not an ego thing. It's that the late game is easier than the early game.

A lot of people like to play late-game for all the different unit types, air defense, fancy ship types, etc. The problem is that as the game gets more tactically complex the AI's ability to compete suffers. (Though it does benefit from stack-o-doom piles of fighters, that's the only thing the AI seems to manage well - it's terrible at naval combat, it needs the extra units there.)

If you drop down to an easier level where the AI doesn't have significant steady-state bonuses just to get around the early difficulty "hump", the late game isn't competitive.

There was a mention of improved naval invasions in the patch notes. We'll see.

 

[Agent Cooper]

The notion that more AI units under strategic inadequite management can 'balance' fewer player units under competent strategic management, strikes me as wishful.

If the developers aspire for balance on the battlefield, it's the AI that needs improvement or the combat system needs to be adjusted to work with the AI they are capable of designing.

 

[RealHuhn]

Man, am I the only one who can't play the game anymore without this awesome patch?

I need it !!!!!!

 

[insaneweasel]

For the love of ALL THAT IS HOLY, do not add a freaking sniper unit.

Snipers are blown so far out of proportion in modern gaming that it is not funny. Please, please at least keep them out of Civ.

A far better unit would be a mortar team, or some other form of field artillery (as compared to siege artillery, which is already in game).

Marksmen/snipers/ambush gunmen have been a major part of warfare for years. In the American Revolution, for instance, they were feared by the commanding officers.

They should be an upgrade path for archers/crossbows, but only if they get a penalty, like being unable to kill modern units.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well from a realism perspective in real life and in-game that is not realistic. You do realize infantry doesn't just mean foot soldiers with rifles right? Infantry includes all those, mortors, RPGs, and snipers.

Many ancient armies didn't separate spears and swords into distinct units either.

 

[Txurce]

The notion that more AI units under strategic inadequite management can 'balance' fewer player units under competent strategic management, strikes me as wishful.

If the developers aspire for balance on the battlefield, it's the AI that needs improvement or the combat system needs to be adjusted to work with the AI they are capable of designing.

I'd say the tactical AI works pretty well as is for almost everyone playing on King and below. They are already being at least somewhat challenged. The Deity "balance" limits that level to a tiny percentage of users. In that group, how many aren't being challenged by the AI bonuses? Short answer: not enough to worry about!

The TBC mod has a more elegant solution that just quantity, though. It grants promotions to the AI units based on difficulty level, with additional promotions for units built in each succeeding era. It's too bad that the devs didn't lift this mechanic from TBC, given how much else they took.

There's also a level above Deity, but I don't think anyone's played it (or written about it, anyway).

 

[Randall Turner]

Many ancient armies didn't separate spears and swords into distinct units either.

Guys, it's an immersion-breaker. It'd be a scale anomaly. There's no such thing as a battalion or battery of snipers. The fact that they can't hold ground I think is secondary.

It's just a game, but the unit doesn't "fit" the game scale.

I'd say the tactical AI works pretty well as is for almost everyone playing on King and below.

Does it really? The tactical AI is the easiest thing to exploit, and likewise the hardest to "fix". I don't think there's much difference between adding more units or making them individually more powerful, either - same deal, make the AI army stronger to provide a challenge.

 

[Txurce]

Guys, it's an immersion-breaker. It'd be a scale anomaly. There's no such thing as a battalion or battery of snipers. The fact that they can't hold ground I think is secondary.

It's just a game, but the unit doesn't "fit" the game scale.

Quit being so reasonable. You're going to piss people off.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I'd say the tactical AI works pretty well as is for almost everyone playing on King and below. They are already being at least somewhat challenged. The Deity "balance" limits that level to a tiny percentage of users. In that group, how many aren't being challenged by the AI bonuses? Short answer: not enough to worry about!

The TBC mod has a more elegant solution that just quantity, though. It grants promotions to the AI units based on difficulty level, with additional promotions for units built in each succeeding era. It's too bad that the devs didn't lift this mechanic from TBC, given how much else they took.

There's also a level above Deity, but I don't think anyone's played it (or written about it, anyway).

Not sure I agree about the effeciency of the tactical AI no matter the difficulty level, but I'll leave it at that. Perhaps different players percieve the expression 'balance' differently in the context of the game, so it's not really a right vs wrong argument to start with.

I also really like how Thal included small promotion icons over each unit, so you can see details without the need of highlighting them. It's so obvious and usable you can't help wonder why the devs didn't include it in the patch.

The level above deity - are we talking vanilla game or the mod?

 

[Txurce]

Not sure I agree about the effeciency of the tactical AI no matter the difficulty level, but I'll leave it at that. Perhaps different players percieve the expression 'balance' differently in the context of the game, so it's not really a right vs wrong argument to start with.

The level above deity - are we talking vanilla game or the mod?

1. I'm sure we're on the same page about AI tactical efficiency. I was referring to "more AI units under strategic inadequite management can 'balance' fewer player units under competent strategic management."

2. The mod. It's called Deity - every level is about one higher than the corresponding one in vanilla.

 

[Deggial]

Snipers: Not as combat unit!
As Randall Turner said: wrong scale, wrong use.
And as insaneweasel mentioned: *officers* are their primary target, not so much the common soldier!

Therefore, as I proposed in this thread (see 7c) , "sniper" might be a spy promotion. *If* we will get spies one day, of course...

Only like this, they would make sense! Not as ranged unit upgrade for open battle troops, but as a possibility to take out enemy generals by an invisible intruder.
(I see snipers having 1 hex range, by the way. If possible, as there seems to be a limitation of beeing both a meele and a range unit.)

 

[Agent Cooper]

Therefore, as I proposed in this thread (see 7c) , "sniper" might be a spy promotion. *If* we will get spies one day, of course...

Only like this, they would make sense! Not as ranged unit upgrade for open battle troops, but as a possibility to take out enemy generals by an invisible intruder.

(I like the suggestions, but as long as the AI hasn't got a clue as how to protect their generals anyway....)

 

[Strategist83]

Great generals are great for city defense! Just station them outside the city and they take up a tile!

 

[Agent Cooper]

Great generals are great for city defense! Just station them outside the city and they take up a tile!

...or even better - station them unprotected within range of enemy melee or mounted units so they might shout back to their buddies "I've found them! Look how good I am at this! I'm the best unit in the ga... (gunshot fired)"

 

[Louis XXIV]

Guys, it's an immersion-breaker. It'd be a scale anomaly. There's no such thing as a battalion or battery of snipers. The fact that they can't hold ground I think is secondary.

It's just a game, but the unit doesn't "fit" the game scale.

I wasn't talking about Snipers, I was talking about Mortar and RPG teams. Since they are separate from small arms, I thought they could work without being bad for immersion.

 

[He-Who-Hunts]

I say just let the crossbowman upgrade to infantry and let the user re-pick all the promotions.

 

[CYZ]

I say mortar team.