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June/July Patch Notes

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by 2K Greg, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

    Nov 13, 2007
    Virginia Beach
    I'll enjoy experimenting with different starts to see which are the most viable. I typically delay expansion while I put in place both the NC and HE. Of course, like everything else, it's situational, but if I have the time, I really prefer this start and then expand like crazy. During this non expansion phase, I try to pick up Representation to reduce the culture hit from expansion. It's worked well to date, and I've expanded as much as 6-7 cities on occassion.
  2. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Feb 8, 2011
    Culture-centric strategy may be more powerful now? <shrug> Too many changes to see how they work together. Simply will have to play them to get a new "feel" for it all.
  3. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Jan 14, 2010
    I"m not hot on the things u nerfed for Deity players, I'm super worried with the loss in happiness seriously? Really unfair because AI gets free happiness while Human doesn't, I play on Prince.

    THere was alot of civs in an X shaped Pangea on its side. Me in the middle with many other weak factions vs heavy swarm of barbarians.

    Rome came blowing in from far west into our region.

    He threw large amount of Knights Lancers Legionnaires Longswordmen accompanied by a great general which I killed in my unknowingly suicide charge.

    I went west with 10+ units achieving great success then I saw large reinforcement of musketmen, I was like uh, fled south and inadvertently ran into advance forces making its way to one of my cities and that advance force had a great general in it, so my City and its four unit garrison combined with the retreating force crushed it while rome was bush slaughtering the french my great general with two units in the attacking force escaped alive if u dont count the city's garrison.

    Then I just parked my butt in my lands and refused to yield. I was suddenly fighting Roman Tanks vs my Knights and landsknechts All in rapid transition. i think only 50-100 turns passed after rome's last assault during medieval era.

    By now, the last countries in where I am, is me and Persia. Everyone got sniped and picked apart very easily by the romans and greeks. Seriously DOFs was supposed to overcome this but, Ai can't recognize threats very easily.

    Only reason Persia still lives is cuz they've been protected indirectly by my presence. Tiny country with four cities. Tho they recently expanded by killing India which was my neighbor, and he was coveting and refusing to work together to deal with greek/rome threat, and he was the strongest AI country in my region.

    I don't agree with research pact nerf cuz they was only reason I was able to escape medieval era in a hurry. Fighting landsknechts against tanks is no fun even when with knights barely strong enough just to finish off tanks with promos. he had a large stream of artillery too.

    Surprisingly, they tank landsknecht well enough, 2-3 needed to defeat one.

    I've been signing RAs with Persia like mad cuz he's only country to actually have osme kind of economy always 150-800gpt per turn while rome's at negative 100 to 1630 gold per turn.

    What gives?!

    Cuz Last time I tried to go into negative while having science yet, my units got disbanded. pfft. this Cheat is AI exclusive only.

    And that with losing 3 happiness. wtf. Colo/theatre/stad loses 1 happiness why. why why

    They're very precious. I like having metropolises!

    Developers of civ clearly hate endgame. In fact, there's nothing for the endgame after u reach the end of tech tree where ur pop still can grow but ur happiness won't they're limited.

    I frequently play past 2050 ad.

    Just go up and release the source code already for the huge map late endgame players like me. U Firaxis hate the endgame. meh.

    Everything currently in the game is made with assumption that u'll stop playing at 2050 or at 2100 ad at the most. :/

    Don't do that.
  4. qyll

    qyll Prince

    Jan 16, 2010
    The changes in general look decent. General fixes, nerfing RAs, adding policy finisher bonuses, and the introduction of stone all look great. The reduction in available happiness is a terrible change, though. It's already hard enough to keep a wide empire happy; do you really want to punish REXers and warmongers so desperately as to make these changes?

    Some of the policy changes are a step in the right direction (republic, changes to honor, social), while some I just don't understand (landed elite, constitution, aristocracy). Furthermore, wonders already take dozens of turns to build. Why make them more expensive?

    I'm also calling this right now: Police state is going to be overpowered.

    Furthermore, it's nice to see city defenses reduced. It's hard enough to take cities with swordsmen/catapults let alone non-iron units. Let's hope that those nerfs allow players to successfully conquer cities without a strict need for iron.
  5. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Jan 14, 2010
    Nope, never had a problem taking cities without iron units.

    edit: also they still need to do something about City states being unusable in late games, coz the influence u get drops to zero.
  6. Airey

    Airey Prince

    Feb 9, 2008

    :crazyeye: You all talk if GL is a sure thing.
    This would be interesting choice for players. If missed out, would have to back track building library and further delay NC.
  7. HarryLime

    HarryLime Chieftain

    Feb 5, 2010
    This must be a mistake of some sort, right? Either Arabia's unique ability includes this or the Bazaar does this in addition to it's original ability. They couldn't possibly be replacing double resources with 2 gold on an oasis.
  8. Lose

    Lose King

    May 1, 2011
    Washington, D.C.
    cuz you said u only play prince... when u go above prince esp around emperor and immortal cities are tough... even citystates are a challegne to take over. :crazyeye:
  9. oledavy

    oledavy Chieftain

    May 25, 2011
    In regards to the new RA agreements, I don't quite understand how it works. Do you get a one time science boost when you sign them or is it an ongoing bonus while it's signed?
  10. cccv

    cccv King

    May 6, 2010
    ok, I don't think I like some of this.

    Lots of happiness nerfs. Looking down the list I was sure I was going to see another late game happiness building added that this was all compensating for, but no.

    Then I got to the change to theocracy. So, how exactly are we supposed to manage large empires, now?

    Oh, and what's this about having the option to give a captured worker back to the CS now? Am I reading something wrong? because we can do that now.

    EDIT: also, what the hell is with losing certain promotions on upgrade now?
  11. Lose

    Lose King

    May 1, 2011
    Washington, D.C.
    this patch looks perfect.. everything looks balanced out!
  12. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Mar 17, 2006
    You get a one time science boost when the agreement completes.
  13. StoneColdNuts

    StoneColdNuts Chieftain

    Mar 9, 2010
    I like the patch. The happiness looks like a beating, but I understand that it's more to prevent rampant conquest than hamper the player's natural growth. I do hope that this also affects the AI's expansion, though. AIs that just drop a million cities in every corner of the map are a pain to attack, with cities being defended fairly easily, and with player happiness being an even greater issue now. I hope that the Walls and Castle nerf helps, I hate it when my conquest is going well and then a city gets +6 defense rush bought out of nowhere.
  14. spfun

    spfun King

    Oct 8, 2010
    Yeah i played most of my games to the very end where i owned most of the world, even on a standard sized map with most of the happiness bonuses from policies i would struggle to maintain a surplus of happiness, now with theocracy gone(which was a massive increase) & all the other happiness hits, i'm finding it hard to see how 1 can control a massive empire of growing cities with the current changes.

    Look at what im losing in a standard game

    -Theocracy :(
    -Now have to choose whether i want +1happy per city from Order or the specialist boost from Freedom :(

    Those alone are massive for endgame huge empire

    -1 each for coliseum, theater & stadium respectively.
    -1 per luxury
    +1 unhappiness per city(from 2 to 3)

    Again massive hits...

    We do get some changes to offset these to a lesser extent but some are wonders we may not get, only the policy changes can help us but its not going to be enough. Its going to be very hard to maintain a massive puppet empire now.
  15. King_Course

    King_Course Prince

    Oct 6, 2010
    Both the other Policies add culture into the mix, only Honor did not receive any cultural contributions. As I see it, it is all about one tree being vertical, one being horizontal, and the third being what your neighbour think it should be. Giving an influx of culture for all three branches doesn't make one stand out.

    My reaction to the changes for Monte was not negative. Oppositely infact good old Monte has struck gold. Double the culture and also gold, he will be fun to play. Montezuma the Cultured, yeah thats right lol.
  16. Lose

    Lose King

    May 1, 2011
    Washington, D.C.
    they also added a lot of ways to get happiness...
  17. eazyseeker

    eazyseeker Warlord

    May 1, 2011
    This looks great, really great :)
    Definitely looking forward to diplomatic positive modifiers and policy changes.

    However, one minor suggestion: remove barbarian bonus from honor tree, and instead make Military Caste opener (+2 :c5culture:, +1 :c5happy: in each city with a garrison). This would allow for great synergy with early Oligarchy & make honor more of a 'builder' start.

    Also, I absolutely love the position of Spoils of War (you took that from TBC didn't ya :p) as honor's policy 'ender'. In TBC, the policy was really, really good and so was put at the end of a 3-tiers tree, but that still made belining to it useful. Now you have to complete the entire tree in order to attain it.

    I may be looking forward to actually playing Civ5 un-modded now. Some of Thal's changes are... radical, and I'd rather fancy the 'mix' you are trying to achieve on the next patch.
  18. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Jan 14, 2010
    So, why do Prince players have to suffer for people that play on higher difficulty?
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    May 23, 2008
    Crestview FL
    People, before flipping out about happiness wait till you've been able to play a few games. Look at how happiness can be gained from ALL social policy trees now, how only the final three conflict, and the different ways you can combine policies; According to the notes, even wide empires can expect a significant number of policies now.
  20. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

    May 25, 2004
    Combat preview for Aircraft UI addition. - what is this Aircraft UI?

    Diplomacy and AI
    I was hoping for more changes to the AI and Diplomacy for this patch. The change log does seem to be a bit lacking considering the state of current AI and Diplomacy.

    Player is now given the option to return a CS worker that they free from barbarians. - thought this was already the case?
    Machu Picchu no longer destroyed when capturing a city containing Machu Picchu. - FINALLY!!!!

    Balance - Mechanics
    Reduced per-city Policy cost increase by 50%. This is pretty big. Will definitely help those that like a large civ. I wonder how the Representation Policy works with this then.
    Unhappiness per city increased to 3 from 2. - This will no doubt affect early game expansion, especially with the happiness nerf to luxuries (only 4 :c5happy: now)
    All great person tile improvements now connect all strategic resources. :)

    Balance - Terrain, Resources, and Improvements
    Academy yield increases with Scientific Theory.
    Customs House yield increases with Economics.
    Manufactory yield increases with Chemistry.
    - These 3 changes are great, but nothing for Landmarks?
    Luxury resources now give 4 Happiness, down from 5. - Why? I find myself always short on :c5happy: and every game I'm having to chose my social policies solely to reduce :c5angry:

    Balance - Terrain, Resources, and Improvements
    In general I'm not liking the direction of these changes. For one, buildings that made cities unique have been hit hard (monastery, mints).
    I'm seeing some pretty significant nerfs here. Factory got hit hard - factories should be powerful as they require a permanent coal resource! And seaport? I thought this was already a very weak building, but now it has effectively been nerfed by 50%.
    Colosseum maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    Theatre maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    Stadium maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    - Again why? I need moar :c5happy: not less! Are they only testing these changes playing as the AI with their ridiculous :c5happy: bonuses?

    Balance - Wonders
    These actually seem pretty good.
    Cristo Redentor will no longer a bee-line for me in most games.
    Sydney Opera House is actually available at a useful time

    Balance - Civilization Unique Abilities
    Was hoping for more changes here in an attempt to make the civilizations more unique. Germany's buff seems nice. Unit maintenance is usually by far my biggest cost in a game. Ottomans buff needs more though - in fact, the whole bonus trait just needs to be scrapped and re-thought.

    It looks like most Policy Trees got buffed and balanced nicely. :goodjob:
    A bit of a nerf really, but I think it was needed. Landed Elite was quite powerful I found. The new Landed Elite is quite pathetic actually. Of course you can get the old Landed Elite buff's if you complete the whole tree.. but it means you have to use SP's on a few crappy ones.

    I like it. We wont see as many early Great People now, which I like.
    The +5% :c5production: for Republic is welcome.

    Some massive buffs here. Even more so for certain civilizations!
    Honor Opener now additionally provides Culture for each barbarian killed. - Awesome. Can go hunting now for barbarians for both loot and culture! Does this also apply to Aztecs doubly? I think this also buffs the Germans significantly! Depending on the amount of culture given though.
    Warrior Code now also gives 15% melee unit production. :goodjob:
    Military Caste now provides +1 Happiness and +2 Culture for each city with a garrison. :crazyeye:
    Professional Army now reduces cost of upgrading units by 33% and provides +1 Happiness per defensive building (Walls, Castle, Arsenal, Military base). Always appreciate :c5happy:, and might actually build a defensive building for once now. (keep in mind these defensive buildings where nerfed though)
    Honor Finisher: Grants gold for each enemy unit killed. Very good, but how much?

    I always considered Piety to be a critical Social Policy tree, mostly because of Theocracy reduction to :c5angry:, which in 95% of my games i found essential (I'm a builder and expansionist).
    Piety Opener now provides a 15% production bonus on Culture buildings. :goodjob:
    Free Religion now provides only 1 free Policy but increases the Culture from Monuments, Temples and Monasteries by 1. Bit confused about this one. I think they should just scrap the free policy bonus, and give it something else. Still, I'm not complaining.
    Organized Religion now gives 1 Happiness per Monument, Temple and Monastery. :)
    Reformation now increases Culture in all cities with a Wonder by 33%, and starts a Golden Age. Nice little buff there.
    Theocracy now increase gold yield by 10% in cities with a Temple. Theocracy was already the most essential SP in the game, and now it is also one of the best. (I would actually want to get it rather than simply must get it)
    Piety Finisher: -10% Culture cost of future Policies. :)

    Nothing much to see here. I found Patronage a little OP frankly. Not much has changed here, which is good as it seems most other SP trees have been buffed.

    Hmmm. Commerce to me was always a bit weak. Still is, but the finisher is nice!
    Commerce Finisher: +1 Gold per Specialist. :)

    Rationalism never really did it for me, as the late game techs rolled around pretty regularly that I was never left thinking I needed more research. But, there were quite a few nerfs to science buildings I thought, and with the re-balancing maybe late game techs now take longer to research, making this tree more appealing.
    Rationalist Opener now increases the Science granted when completing Research Agreements by 50%. Stacks with Porcelain Tower. - Unsure of how good this is, but I am thinking it will be quite powerful if you have a few friends to do plenty of RA's with. Does it also get a GA now?
    Free Thought now also increases University science yield by 17% Nice little buff
    Humanism now also affects Public Schools and Observatories. - More :c5happy: too!
    Rationalism Finisher: +1 Gold from Science buildings. - Nice

    This SP tree was a favorite. Now it is quite pathetic. The opener was great for expansionist and builder like myself, as it often reduced :c5angry: significantly. It is still in the tree but now a few SP's into it (Democracy).
    Freedom Opener now provides 25% Great Person Points in all cities. - This Democracy earlier, but it has been reduced from +50%. So a fairly giant nerf.
    Democracy now provides -50% Unhappiness per Specialist. This was the opener previously. Still great (essential for me).
    Constitution now provides +2 Culture per Wonder. - Massive nerf from +100% culture.
    Free Speech now provides 8 maintenance free units. - This reduction in SP cost came a bit late for it to be much use, but I think I would still prefer it over this. Nerf.
    Freedom Finisher: +100% yield from Great Tile Improvements and increase length of Golden Ages by 50%. - Nice, but how many GA's are you going to get by this stage in the game? Might be nice to see the Great Tile Improvement yields, not that I ever use GP for improving tiles.

    Police State now provides 3 Happiness per Courthouse, and reduces the time it take to build Courthouses by 50%. Nice. I never understood the original buff, as a courthouse would be the first thing I would either rush buy or start building... for those very very rare times I annexed rather than puppetted.
    Total War now provides +15% Production when building Military Units and +15 XP for new units. - Fairly week still for a very late SP. Selecting this SP though will finish the tree giving...
    Autocracy Finisher: 30 turn attack bonus of +20%. So a longer duration, but reduced buff (from 33%). I'll take that.

    This tree has been beaten pretty hard with the nerf stick. Was a little too good previously though.
    I was expecting United Front (Other players influence with City-States decrease 33% more) would be updated, as this same bonus is already available from the Patronage Finisher. Anyways, here it is again it seems, and I'm assuming they stack.
    Order Opener now provides +1 Happiness per City.[/I - This effectively replaces the old Planned Economy (Unhappiness from number of cities reduced by 50%). As cities now have 3 :c5angry:, this is effectively a pretty big nerf.
    Socialism buff to 15% reduction in building maintenance from 10%. Tiny buff to a SP you would only ever choose to get to the original Communism and Planned Economy SP's. Meh.
    Planned Economy now increases Science yield by 25% in cities with a Factory. I don't get this one. Nice, but does not have much synergy here. And this perhaps comes too late to be of any use.
    Communism now provides 2 Production and 10% Production towards buildings in each city. Massive massive MASSIVE nerf. Probably needed though. The +5:c5production: has been reduced to +2:c5production:. The additional 10% used to be as part of the opener, and has been reduced from 15%.
    Order Finisher: +1 Food/Production/Science/Gold/Culture per city. Quite weak really.

    Reduced cost of Calendar, Civil Service, Iron Working, Gunpowder, Rifling and Dynamite. - Interesting. Are they trying to make this game more for the war-mongerer? I thought the balance for this part of the game was quite good.
    Scaled up costs of all sciences starting in the mid-renaissance era and on (larger increases later on). - Excellency! Should really help balance the game.
    Metal Working requires Construction. - Do they mean Metal Casting?

    Good stuff here. I was hoping a few units would be modified in terms of what strategic resources they required. For instance, Oil is next to useless in this game, which makes no sense at all.
    +1 moves for Tank, Panzer, Modern Armor, with no sight penalty. - Great!
    Decreased Longswordsman strength. :eek:
    Reduced Tank, Panzer, Modern Armor to lower tier city attack penalty (-25%, instead of -33%). - Tanks are going to be used now I think.
    Aztec Culture from kills now stacks with new Honor Policy branch opener for double Culture killing barbarians. - Answers my question from before. How good are Aztecs going to be with Raging Barbarians?

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