We'll finish Wtg in 1t anyway. It would be a WFYABTA hit for, like, 10b Edit: 20b. And we can't build a library for 3t yet.
Just another SG
- Thread starter mystyfly
- Start date
I have this weird desire to send our settler past Joao to that fish... 
Our scout can't be replaced by a warrior on fogbust duty and still make it there in time to check. The warrior S of Oporto could go 1E next turn, and then hopefully hitch a ride on Joao's roads. I think I'll do that, while I send the Sparta warrior over to replace the scout right away.
If the land's available and I don't spot a Portuguese settler on the way, I'd stop for consult.
Our scout can't be replaced by a warrior on fogbust duty and still make it there in time to check. The warrior S of Oporto could go 1E next turn, and then hopefully hitch a ride on Joao's roads. I think I'll do that, while I send the Sparta warrior over to replace the scout right away.If the land's available and I don't spot a Portuguese settler on the way, I'd stop for consult.
go ahead!
Ok, since there weren't any comments and this is pretty straightforward, I played.
Start with a trade:
The spot I wanted is indeed available:
In fact there were a cow and an ivory just east.
However, that is a Joao settler party coming up. Not gonna happen, so I settle the GP farm spot:
Then it gets interesting:
Only one missing now. They all have Alphabet now, except for Willem of all people.
This will be a fast game. There were no further trades to make. Izzy was missing Mining and AH, but only had Alpha and Archery available.
Known world:
Athens built the settler, and then a library. Sparta is one turn from a worker. As I indicated previously, Athens sucks while running two Sci, but I suppose we can make that sacrifice for 9t. Another worker would be lovely, I think. Sparta could grow in 3t after completing the worker, so should do that while investing in a library. We can have Aesthetics in 12t. Seems like a good point to stop, in case anyone wants to argue against Aesthetics or the Athens citizen assignments.
Edit: and no seafood on the west coast.
Edit2: Didn't sign any further OB, other than Joao. There were no immediate benefits, and I wanted the team to discuss it.
Start with a trade:
Spoiler :
The spot I wanted is indeed available:
Spoiler :
In fact there were a cow and an ivory just east.
However, that is a Joao settler party coming up. Not gonna happen, so I settle the GP farm spot:Spoiler :
Then it gets interesting:
Spoiler :
Only one missing now. They all have Alphabet now, except for Willem of all people.
This will be a fast game. There were no further trades to make. Izzy was missing Mining and AH, but only had Alpha and Archery available.Known world:
Spoiler :
Athens built the settler, and then a library. Sparta is one turn from a worker. As I indicated previously, Athens sucks while running two Sci, but I suppose we can make that sacrifice for 9t. Another worker would be lovely, I think. Sparta could grow in 3t after completing the worker, so should do that while investing in a library. We can have Aesthetics in 12t. Seems like a good point to stop, in case anyone wants to argue against Aesthetics or the Athens citizen assignments.
Edit: and no seafood on the west coast.
Edit2: Didn't sign any further OB, other than Joao. There were no immediate benefits, and I wanted the team to discuss it.
Ugh.
The more you zoom out the smaller our land looks
More seriously, losing 7gpt at 100% indicates we're not expanding fast enough. We should prioritize those settlers to infra (workers and MP is fine too). At least we have a great GPFarm.
What are your thoughts on religion? I'd say should some buddhist ask us convert we should do so but not otherwise so we don't provoke anyone by getting early -ves for religion and definitely not adopt another religion as we don't want to annoy our close neighbors. I am afraid izzy will cap as soon as she can (as much as we can tell so far anyway) so there will be even more AI-AI trades. Not sure what happened to her; did she lose Madrid?
Aesth as bargain chip next is surely a good idea. We probably won't spend resources on GL and a beeline for currency for TR and trading doesn't make much sense since we don't have many cities. Yet another option is CoL for caste (and it is surprise also a decent trading chip) as we may not want to whip much (at all).
What do we do with the GS? I guess best is academy in athenes.
We should try to connect resources to get +ves with trades.
Lymond is up, shyuhe on deck.
The more you zoom out the smaller our land looks
More seriously, losing 7gpt at 100% indicates we're not expanding fast enough. We should prioritize those settlers to infra (workers and MP is fine too). At least we have a great GPFarm.
What are your thoughts on religion? I'd say should some buddhist ask us convert we should do so but not otherwise so we don't provoke anyone by getting early -ves for religion and definitely not adopt another religion as we don't want to annoy our close neighbors. I am afraid izzy will cap as soon as she can (as much as we can tell so far anyway) so there will be even more AI-AI trades. Not sure what happened to her; did she lose Madrid?
Aesth as bargain chip next is surely a good idea. We probably won't spend resources on GL and a beeline for currency for TR and trading doesn't make much sense since we don't have many cities. Yet another option is CoL for caste (and it is surprise also a decent trading chip) as we may not want to whip much (at all).
What do we do with the GS? I guess best is academy in athenes.
We should try to connect resources to get +ves with trades.
Lymond is up, shyuhe on deck.
If anything, we're expanding too fast, in the sense that I don't have worker turns to road gold or pasture the pig. 
Athens is food poor, so running Sci right now is big loss. Given the tech pace in this game, though, I don't think we have much of a choice but to push out some GS. Academy first, yes. Our money losses will be quite low here, thanks to our compact little empire setup. 
Buddhism is best, but that's not for a while. We want Joao at Pleased quickly, since he's already out of land to settle. We also need to take the wheat before he does. If Athens is running the GS, Sparta should do the settler. At pop 2, it's T+10, pop 3 T+12, minus 3t for a whip in either case. Thoughts?
Edit: Isabella's got 4 cities. Don't see anything wrong, she just has utter crap for land probably.
Athens is food poor, so running Sci right now is big loss. Given the tech pace in this game, though, I don't think we have much of a choice but to push out some GS. Academy first, yes. Our money losses will be quite low here, thanks to our compact little empire setup. Buddhism is best, but that's not for a while. We want Joao at Pleased quickly, since he's already out of land to settle. We also need to take the wheat before he does. If Athens is running the GS, Sparta should do the settler. At pop 2, it's T+10, pop 3 T+12, minus 3t for a whip in either case. Thoughts?
Edit: Isabella's got 4 cities. Don't see anything wrong, she just has utter crap for land probably.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hi folks!
Look like two nice rounds... Dow e have a lib up already in the eastern blockler city? I think Joao will annoyingly settle past it if we don't close that one tile gap with a border pop. That or he will grab our cheat as mysty says. Will check the save before going on (will check that settler micro)
Look like two nice rounds... Dow e have a lib up already in the eastern blockler city? I think Joao will annoyingly settle past it if we don't close that one tile gap with a border pop. That or he will grab our cheat as mysty says. Will check the save before going on (will check that settler micro
)
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got it! I will look at things tonight and post a plan
Okay, first I'm posting a screenie with a dotmap for potential sites:
I marked 3 potential cities here. City A with the wheat appears to be the city we want next. However, we may lose spots in the south. B and C are crappy, but that's all we have really. We could also plop in a city 1N of the Oasis, but would have to grab that before Joao next border pop.
As for the plan:
We certainly need more workers and I don't like that we don't have trade routes. However, we need another settler soon. We can easily chop out a settler in Sparta quickly at size 2. I could chop the settler and then put the workers on trade routes between Athens/Sparta and Sparta/Portugal. Sparta can then build another worker - or grow and whip a worker into a Library.
I assume we just want to slow build a worker in Athens while the GS is produce. I could start another settler in Athens after the worker completes. I would send the worker from Athens to Corinth to start improvements. Corinth can build another worker.
We should definitely open borders with Willie. I would open then with Iz and Sury too, but will ask for the team's advice on that with the WEs.
Finish Aesths which will probably be around the end of my TS and then we can discuss trade possibilities.
Okay, first I'm posting a screenie with a dotmap for potential sites:
Spoiler :
I marked 3 potential cities here. City A with the wheat appears to be the city we want next. However, we may lose spots in the south. B and C are crappy, but that's all we have really. We could also plop in a city 1N of the Oasis, but would have to grab that before Joao next border pop.
As for the plan:
We certainly need more workers and I don't like that we don't have trade routes. However, we need another settler soon. We can easily chop out a settler in Sparta quickly at size 2. I could chop the settler and then put the workers on trade routes between Athens/Sparta and Sparta/Portugal. Sparta can then build another worker - or grow and whip a worker into a Library.
I assume we just want to slow build a worker in Athens while the GS is produce. I could start another settler in Athens after the worker completes. I would send the worker from Athens to Corinth to start improvements. Corinth can build another worker.
We should definitely open borders with Willie. I would open then with Iz and Sury too, but will ask for the team's advice on that with the WEs.
Finish Aesths which will probably be around the end of my TS and then we can discuss trade possibilities.
We could also settle 2N of pig to potentially share pig and gold. I'd settle A 1E on the PH. With only a dry wheat, it won't be able to work all the hills anyway, so we may as well take an extra hammer and take away a hill from Joao. Don't know about the timing of cow vs wheat. Joao could easily settle with wheat in the second ring (or even first?) and totally screw us, so I'm inclined to go there.
Can we really spare worker turns on chopping of all things? I think we need that pig, hook up gold, mine copper, mine a GH in the capital for later, roads for TR's... If we're committed to the GS, the slow worker in Athens is right. We don't really have a choice then but to build a settler next in Sparta. Maybe even do something silly and whip from size 2 (it has very fast regrowth at low pop)?
OB: I tend to avoid Izzy for heathen WE reasons. And we won't be benefiting any from it. Willem is certainly fine. I would have done it automatically, but I prefer a discussion on these matters in an SG. I'd also sign with Sury, but we don't really get much from it right now. He's an easy AI to please with OR in the late BC's. Perhaps wait a bit?
Can we really spare worker turns on chopping of all things? I think we need that pig, hook up gold, mine copper, mine a GH in the capital for later, roads for TR's... If we're committed to the GS, the slow worker in Athens is right. We don't really have a choice then but to build a settler next in Sparta. Maybe even do something silly and whip from size 2 (it has very fast regrowth at low pop)?
OB: I tend to avoid Izzy for heathen WE reasons. And we won't be benefiting any from it. Willem is certainly fine. I would have done it automatically, but I prefer a discussion on these matters in an SG. I'd also sign with Sury, but we don't really get much from it right now. He's an easy AI to please with OR in the late BC's. Perhaps wait a bit?
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Yep, the new position of A makes sense.
If I see things correctly, we only need 1 road near Athens to create a Sparta/Athens link. I could move the worker from the corn tile to create that road and then move him either to Corinth to work pigs or to the PH spot to chop that forest in prep for the new city and so that chop goes into the worker in Athens. The new worker in Sparta can start on the Copper. Sparta can start a settler and then time growth (with Library maybe) to hit size 3 when the copper finishes. OR we keep Sparta at size 2 on a settler and the worker there connects to Portugal first and then goes copper. This should time well with hooking up to Portugal at the same time we get the Athens/Sparta link.
At this point the urgency of getting that worker to Corinth before creating a road next to AThens seems minimal, since it will do nothing to speed up the workboat and the city will work the fish first and probably build a worker (at least before growing on the later completed pigs)
The city north of the Pigs sounds fine, but not a priority I would think at the moment.
Hooking up gold does not seem an immediate priority since our cities will be relatively small for a bit.
If I see things correctly, we only need 1 road near Athens to create a Sparta/Athens link. I could move the worker from the corn tile to create that road and then move him either to Corinth to work pigs or to the PH spot to chop that forest in prep for the new city and so that chop goes into the worker in Athens. The new worker in Sparta can start on the Copper. Sparta can start a settler and then time growth (with Library maybe) to hit size 3 when the copper finishes. OR we keep Sparta at size 2 on a settler and the worker there connects to Portugal first and then goes copper. This should time well with hooking up to Portugal at the same time we get the Athens/Sparta link.
At this point the urgency of getting that worker to Corinth before creating a road next to AThens seems minimal, since it will do nothing to speed up the workboat and the city will work the fish first and probably build a worker (at least before growing on the later completed pigs)
The city north of the Pigs sounds fine, but not a priority I would think at the moment.
Hooking up gold does not seem an immediate priority since our cities will be relatively small for a bit.
I also prefer 1E of wheat like bbp. Chopping workers and seetlers is fine by me but please dont start a worker in corinth - its devoted to get those GPs flowing, meaning mostly infra builds.
What about shutting off research until the academy is done? We are then more flexible to research stuff the ai doesn't know and spare a lot of beakers. otoh we might miss out on a few trades..
OB - rule of thumb, OB with everyone who is nobody's we so nobody comes demanding to close them.
What about shutting off research until the academy is done? We are then more flexible to research stuff the ai doesn't know and spare a lot of beakers. otoh we might miss out on a few trades..
OB - rule of thumb, OB with everyone who is nobody's we so nobody comes demanding to close them.
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I will focus Corinth then on growth and infra - granary/library. Makes sense to me. Just felt we need more workers. However, Sparta can focus more on worker/settler production for now.
I think we can put at least one chop into the Settler in Sparta and I will definitely try to get the trade routes rockin'.
I'd like to see some more input before I play, but I can play this evening.
I think we can put at least one chop into the Settler in Sparta and I will definitely try to get the trade routes rockin'.
I'd like to see some more input before I play, but I can play this evening.
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Well, Joao sent a settler our way to the wheat site almost on the 1st turn. There was no hope there. He settled just east of the furs. A few turns later he sent a settler to the south. I beat him by 1 turn to settle site C that I had marked earlier to block him from that direction. I was going to whip the settler at 1t anyway to put hammers into a Library. Site C is not great and it is 1off coast, but there is nothing on the coast anyway and the city has better food and hammer potential at this site, plus insta trade route. I felt there was not much I could do - Joao is just bombarding us with Settlers.
There is still a gap above Sparta, but it will take Joao some time to get his settler up and around there. I had started a Settler in Athens, which will get a chop next turn.
Meanwhile, the old worker built a road next to Athens but for some reason that did not open the trade route as expected - not sure why. Then I had him move North to chop forests out from under Joao's new city. 1 chop got out a worker and the next will go into a settler.
New worker put chop into Settler, which I'm glad I did and then built a road to Portugal and started a mine on the copper.
Izzy soon demanded Mining from us, which I agreed to. She is no longer Sury's WE. I also OB with her.
Izzy Demand:
Iz also completed Oracle and I assume that she took Currency as the free tech.
I moved the warriors back to cities and brought the Scout back to clear fog in North Portugal and then sent him back East.
I went with mysty's suggestion of running binary until the Academy came in. Built it in Athens, checked the techs, and determined that Aesth was still the best way to go.
Corinth finish WB and is now working fish and building a Library. Worker from Athens started pasture on pigs.
Here's a view of the land.
Overview:
Looks like if we hurry we can get our 6 cities, although some of these cities are not great. Site B I marked earlier and BBP's suggestion of 2N of the pigs.
I started a worker in Thebes as a placeholder, but I think we should build one there anyway.
There is still a gap above Sparta, but it will take Joao some time to get his settler up and around there. I had started a Settler in Athens, which will get a chop next turn.
Meanwhile, the old worker built a road next to Athens but for some reason that did not open the trade route as expected - not sure why. Then I had him move North to chop forests out from under Joao's new city. 1 chop got out a worker and the next will go into a settler.
New worker put chop into Settler, which I'm glad I did and then built a road to Portugal and started a mine on the copper.
Izzy soon demanded Mining from us, which I agreed to. She is no longer Sury's WE. I also OB with her.
Izzy Demand:
Spoiler :
Iz also completed Oracle and I assume that she took Currency as the free tech.
I moved the warriors back to cities and brought the Scout back to clear fog in North Portugal and then sent him back East.
I went with mysty's suggestion of running binary until the Academy came in. Built it in Athens, checked the techs, and determined that Aesth was still the best way to go.
Corinth finish WB and is now working fish and building a Library. Worker from Athens started pasture on pigs.
Here's a view of the land.
Overview:
Spoiler :
Looks like if we hurry we can get our 6 cities, although some of these cities are not great. Site B I marked earlier and BBP's suggestion of 2N of the pigs.
I started a worker in Thebes as a placeholder, but I think we should build one there anyway.
Haven't looked at the save yet. That looks really ugly... I'd settle 1E of the sheep next. Might as well - no worse than the southern city.
I don't see how you can get Athens-Sparta TRs without 3 roads.
More comments tmr, when I look at the save...
I don't see how you can get Athens-Sparta TRs without 3 roads.
More comments tmr, when I look at the save...
shyuhe
Deity
I'd settle 1NW of the oasis rather than settle 1E of the sheep. It's unfortunate that we lost the fur.
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I think the question begs why we settled Corinth first before securing our borders. Corinth will be a great city/GP Farm....sure...but with Joao-monster next door it was pretty inevitable that we' d get crunched for space. But then you deity folks are able to do more with less.
Anyway, it is what it is and nothing could have been done about it. I do think a city around the oasis will secure things and allow for 7 possible cities. Although we do have to watch for naval settler attacks.
Well it was prioritizing GPFarm vs settling more agressively. It is a gamble we lost, probably nobody expected joao to sneak by like this so soon, me included. It's a setback but a minor one imo.
Joao with his 8 cities is far from being a monster. I actually would've preferred him to settle 12 or so and suffer from overexpansion so we can overpower him more easyily but I guess with another imp AI to the east...
As for our next city, I also like shyuhe's 1NW of oasis best, it gets the oasis, 2 plains hills, some green tiles and a couple of forests. 1E of sheep would be a viable option as well, to compete for the wheat. What about silk city? 2N of silk to get coastal and maximum green tiles? IMO we can also settle 2N of pigs later but only if we get stone somewherer. Without moai this will suck forever and we can't even really use it for drafting unless we kill our GPP output.
Are we agreed on firing the scientists in athenes in 15t; when the next GS comes in? This city has so much potential and needs to grow...
Since we can't yet build granaries and thebes is no commerce monster I'd leave it at worker for now. The fortified warrior 1W may move inside the city however. Not sure what joao meant by sending that settler, either he settles where he is right now or he retreats. Either way is fine by me, he has no chance of getting it really productive and will be an easy entry point when we start war.
Theres no need to talk about tech situation right now. IIRC shyuhe's up now; you may play until aesth completes and we can trade for alphabet, then stop to discuss.
Izzy is sury's WE again btw. Those things change for a turn or so occasionally, you should've waited with the OB but not a big deal.
I'm curious to see what the scout shows us... why is he not on the front of the uncovered tiles?
Joao with his 8 cities is far from being a monster. I actually would've preferred him to settle 12 or so and suffer from overexpansion so we can overpower him more easyily but I guess with another imp AI to the east...
As for our next city, I also like shyuhe's 1NW of oasis best, it gets the oasis, 2 plains hills, some green tiles and a couple of forests. 1E of sheep would be a viable option as well, to compete for the wheat. What about silk city? 2N of silk to get coastal and maximum green tiles? IMO we can also settle 2N of pigs later but only if we get stone somewherer. Without moai this will suck forever and we can't even really use it for drafting unless we kill our GPP output.
Are we agreed on firing the scientists in athenes in 15t; when the next GS comes in? This city has so much potential and needs to grow...
Since we can't yet build granaries and thebes is no commerce monster I'd leave it at worker for now. The fortified warrior 1W may move inside the city however
. Not sure what joao meant by sending that settler, either he settles where he is right now or he retreats. Either way is fine by me, he has no chance of getting it really productive and will be an easy entry point when we start war.Theres no need to talk about tech situation right now. IIRC shyuhe's up now; you may play until aesth completes and we can trade for alphabet, then stop to discuss.
Izzy is sury's WE again btw. Those things change for a turn or so occasionally, you should've waited with the OB but not a big deal.
I'm curious to see what the scout shows us... why is he not on the front of the uncovered tiles?
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Well, I just did settle Thebes. Actually it may be best to move the Warrior 1 SW to possible prevent barb galleys spawning in that area until border pops.
Yep, 2N of Silk is City B I marked on the dotmap I provided before my TS. Seems like a logical place to settle....considering what little we have.
Not sure if I followed your comment on the scout exactly. I assume you mean why is the scout not further east. I pulled him back to bust the fog in N. Portugal as stated in my report. I realize I could have done this with a warrior which I think may have been the intent of the guy around there, but I pulled units into our borders to save maintenance. I don't think scouting that far east is that big a deal at this point - more important is ensuring trade routes are open when available. Anyway, he is headed back east. I actually revealed quite a bit of land with the Scout in Portugal and HRE.
As for OB, I generally always open them anyway unless it doesn't make sense logistically. I know those WEs can change turn by turn, but it doesn't bother me much when the AIs are known or not that big a concern. Rarely have a problem with it, but I certainly understand the concept.
Yep, 2N of Silk is City B I marked on the dotmap I provided before my TS. Seems like a logical place to settle....considering what little we have.
Not sure if I followed your comment on the scout exactly. I assume you mean why is the scout not further east. I pulled him back to bust the fog in N. Portugal as stated in my report. I realize I could have done this with a warrior which I think may have been the intent of the guy around there, but I pulled units into our borders to save maintenance. I don't think scouting that far east is that big a deal at this point - more important is ensuring trade routes are open when available. Anyway, he is headed back east. I actually revealed quite a bit of land with the Scout in Portugal and HRE.
As for OB, I generally always open them anyway unless it doesn't make sense logistically. I know those WEs can change turn by turn, but it doesn't bother me much when the AIs are known or not that big a concern. Rarely have a problem with it, but I certainly understand the concept.
OK no problem regarding the joao settling party then. Missed that bit with the scout in the report, I was just curious how he got there . As to my OB comment, I find that early diplo blows may have a huge impact... nothing like getting a fauxpas event 2000BC and get DOWd 1000BC for that or be their WE all game. Agree izzy is probably not a big factor here but if we're asked to close OB we still get -ves with her and might lose trading opportunities... this is all hypothetical of course and most likely has no influence on the game anyway
. As to my OB comment, I find that early diplo blows may have a huge impact... nothing like getting a fauxpas event 2000BC and get DOWd 1000BC for that or be their WE all game. Agree izzy is probably not a big factor here but if we're asked to close OB we still get -ves with her and might lose trading opportunities... this is all hypothetical of course and most likely has no influence on the game anyway Similar threads
