Justinian's University: Defeating the Deities

[monolith94]

Awesome thread. What victory are you looking to get?

 

[Johan^^]

Update eta ?

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Unfortunately, not this weekend as I hoped.

Some point next week I guess.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Would you say using the tech broker option makes deity easier or harder?

 

[Unconquered Sun]

While I haven't tried it, I guess it will make it harder. The AIs do trade some techs between them, but only when on good terms. They never techwhore.

 

[Giaur]

But there is also another arg. What if your potentional tech partner researches the same tech. Then you have nothing on him and you are in an dead-end. The first mentioned problem makes game little harder, but the second one not only makes game harder, but also dependent on luck, which destroys the whole strategy. Base of strategy is safety. That's why I do not play with that option. As well as I do not like the dependance of Spaceship arrival on the luck. It's idiotism.

 

[MrFelony]

I cant say for deity, but I found that with the "no tech trades" option enabled on emperor, i was able to still gain a substantial tech lead without lightbulbing (settling and a GA).

 

[TeraHammer]

Do you have an update yet?

 

[Elrohir]

the Apostle Palace (not right name but forget how to spell Aplostolotolic lol) gives you +2 hammers for every building of the AP's religion

And remember, that is permanent, and tied to the religion of the Apostolic Palace - the bonus stays until the Palace is obsoleted, even if you switch religions. (In a recent Emperor game, I built the Apostolic Palace while I had Confucianism as my state religion, then switched to Free Religion as I had built the Shwedagon Paya, and the hammer bonus stayed) This is unlike the bonus you get when you build the Spiral Minaret or the University of Sankore, which is tied to what state religion religion you have.

 

[CellKu]

Thanks for this great read, Unconquered Sun! I learned quite a bit from it.

I do have a question, though, with regard to your "lightbulbing" strategy (IIRC, you said you used your 2nd, 3rd and 4th GS to get techs).
When you lightbulb, do you normally go for specific techs (meaning: you may wait with lightbulbing)? Or do you lightbulb asap?
Would you postpone researching a certain tech to get it with a GS later (when your next GS is only a few turns away)?
When is it, generally speaking, more useful to settle a GS instead of using him for lightbulbing?

And which techs are - in your opinion - a must (besides prob. Writing and CoL) before you start beelining for Liberalism?

CellKu

 

[Troymk1]

Thank you for showing me how far I have to go in my Civ 4 'J Curve'

I used to play Diety on SMAC but so far I'm still trying tactics and having fun at the medium difficulties.

Perhaps I should ramp up the difficulty and really consider each move.

Hard to with a toddler in the house!

 

[LightSpectra]

How are you keeping up with techs? Are you buying them from other leaders?

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Thanks for this great read, Unconquered Sun! I learned quite a bit from it.

I do have a question, though, with regard to your "lightbulbing" strategy (IIRC, you said you used your 2nd, 3rd and 4th GS to get techs).
When you lightbulb, do you normally go for specific techs (meaning: you may wait with lightbulbing)? Or do you lightbulb asap?
Would you postpone researching a certain tech to get it with a GS later (when your next GS is only a few turns away)?
When is it, generally speaking, more useful to settle a GS instead of using him for lightbulbing?

And which techs are - in your opinion - a must (besides prob. Writing and CoL) before you start beelining for Liberalism?

CellKu

1. I absolutely lightbulb specific techs. Don't be afraid to stockpile GPs for specific bulbs and timed GAs.

Managing (even slowing) the gpp production to get the right GP is fine, and is actually expected in the pure SE. One of the problems in this game was the risk of producing a Great Artist (due to National Epic gpps) in the capital. So starving the city to get the highest possible number of scientists for just a few turns had the added benefit of reducing the GA risk.

2. Settling a GS is first compared to building an Academy. The winner is then compared to lightbulbing. What's better depends on your game.

In Justinian's University, I settled the first GS to speed up my Philosophy beeline. I didn't build Academy because my slider was low due to upkeep (and I didn't count on chopping the GL, although I probably had the chance to build it with earlier marble). Finally, I compared settling to bulbing Compass and trading it around, and chose the former.

Then I bulbed Philo and Education. In the long run, settling these GS = more science than Philo and Edu; however I had the option to make great trades immediately, mutiplying the gain of bulbing.


3. Drama for SE, Monarchy for CE; Currency; Construction for war; Literature for GL; Monotheism if Spiritual for Organized Religion.

Also, on BtS I'll consider when marble is present: Calendar (Mausoleum) for CE or non-philo SE; Music (Sistine) for SE. Theology is also good when building the Apostolitic Palace is realistic.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Thank you for showing me how far I have to go in my Civ 4 'J Curve'

I used to play Diety on SMAC but so far I'm still trying tactics and having fun at the medium difficulties.

Perhaps I should ramp up the difficulty and really consider each move.

Hard to with a toddler in the house!

RL can be be a pain

It's what's keeping me from finishing the game. Update will be up on Monday, at the latest.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

How are you keeping up with techs? Are you buying them from other leaders?

What I did so far was some well-timed lightbulbs and then trading around (see the pre-Philo - post-Philo screenshots).

Due to WFYABTA, this can't go on forever. The next update will likely focus on the practical development of the economy, now that I have enough land to outresearch the deities in theory.

 

[Fjortisbarn]

What I did so far was some well-timed lightbulbs and then trading around (see the pre-Philo - post-Philo screenshots).

Due to WFYABTA, this can't go on forever. The next update will likely focus on the practical development of the economy, now that I have enough land to outresearch the deities in theory.

Uh, what does WFYABTA means..?

 

[Johan^^]

Uh, what does WFYABTA means..?

We fear you are becomming to advanced

meaning the AI wont techtrade with you

 

[CellKu]

1. I absolutely lightbulb specific techs. Don't be afraid to stockpile GPs for specific bulbs and timed GAs.

Managing (even slowing) the gpp production to get the right GP is fine, and is actually expected in the pure SE. One of the problems in this game was the risk of producing a Great Artist (due to National Epic gpps) in the capital. So starving the city to get the highest possible number of scientists for just a few turns had the added benefit of reducing the GA risk.

2. Settling a GS is first compared to building an Academy. The winner is then compared to lightbulbing. What's better depends on your game.

In Justinian's University, I settled the first GS to speed up my Philosophy beeline. I didn't build Academy because my slider was low due to upkeep (and I didn't count on chopping the GL, although I probably had the chance to build it with earlier marble). Finally, I compared settling to bulbing Compass and trading it around, and chose the former.

Then I bulbed Philo and Education. In the long run, settling these GS = more science than Philo and Edu; however I had the option to make great trades immediately, mutiplying the gain of bulbing.


3. Drama for SE, Monarchy for CE; Currency; Construction for war; Literature for GL; Monotheism if Spiritual for Organized Religion.

Also, on BtS I'll consider when marble is present: Calendar (Mausoleum) for CE or non-philo SE; Music (Sistine) for SE. Theology is also good when building the Apostolitic Palace is realistic.

Thanks a lot for your very detailed answer! That helps tremendously. I am eagerly waiting for your next turns.

CellKu

P.S.: IIRC from a certain point techs seem to get so expensive that you cannot lightbulb them instantly anymore, put only partly. Would you still use GPs for lightbulbing then? If you stop, which tech would be the last you recommend lightbulbing? Edu?

 

[blau0010]

So fairly soon Boudica will be starting down the path of full war against MM (hopefully). I saw in your screenshots that you were checking on what she thinks of other leaders via diplomacy. What would you use to try and push her into that war? (Giving her a good tech?, Cash?)

Also, I was a little fuzzy for the tech trading part. Would you get a tech, then run around saying "What would you give me for this?" to all the AIs for it? Was it more focused than that?

Great thread. I'm facinated by the detail you have provided.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Update


This round started as an attempt at peaceful development. I chose to stick to SE for a while longer because I've produced few GPs so far, hence the gpp - beaker ratio was very favorable.

Despite Pleased relations, Roose did not sign Open Borders; culture and a mountain range meant my only path to attacking Mansa passed thru a well guarded 85% desert city. My spies found out Mansa's inner cities weren't guarded well. Nonetheless, he had a few SoDs with many Elephants in them, which I didn't like.

Several turns later Roosevelt vassalized to Mansa. Also, Mansa recaptured his lost city from Boudica. Something had to be done ASAP and diplomacy was the answer. Suleiman agreed to attack Mansa/Roose for Printing Press and Gunpower. Shortly after he (or Boudica) bribed Ceaser into the war too, and Mansa/Roosevelt were in war v. everyone but me and backward Saladin.

Boudica captured Seattle and I was sure Mansa is spent on the border with Suleiman (Gao did fell some time later). So peaceful development took the backseat again.

It took me about 10 turns to destroy Roosevelt. I knew when Mansa went after the Rifles beeline, but I did not rush to attack his inner cities: Mansa's position is hopeless, and while he is still the most powerful AI, his defeat is only a matter of time.

I started my first GA, spending a great prophet. During it, Numidian completed the Palace and became the new capital of the Byzantine empire.

Constatinople produced a couple of GS (one partially bulbed Chemistry, the other I kept), while Washington's mongrel gpp pool spawned another Great Prophet. ATM I have the following options for the GPs:

- bulb some of SM on the way to biology (GS)
- build academy in Constatinople (GS)
- build academy in Numidian (GS)
- build shrine in Numidian (GP)
- settle GP in Numidian (GP)
- start another GA

Spoiler :

Powergraph looks fine. Mansa is only a turn away from Rifles tho.

The techs. While the AIs look about equal to me, this is only because I keep giving away techs to them. Mansa is the only exception, his research speed is solid and he has Physics and Communism too.

The happypower of SE in action: 30 unhappy faces mean nothing.