Justinian's University: Defeating the Deities

Sure but thats not why hes getting 7. 2 from slider, 4 from hippodrome (normally 2 from theatre, 1 from colloseum) + 1 happy from horses as well

You're right. I was getting confused cause I was thinking about total happiness but Xanadux was just referring to the culture generated happiness. The +1 base and +1 from horses wouldn't appear in the culture generated happiness.
 
I believe Justinian is having issues with his ISP if i remember correctly from another post of his. but yes, i am curious to see how it pans out as well ;)
 
The Hippodrone is an amazing building. Before, I never touch the culture slider unless I'm going for culture or a war really becomes protracted. With the Byzantines, I run 10% culture during peace just to have bigger cities during the medieval period, and it's great for getting the best trade routes and working the cottages.
 
Hello all and happy new year! After a break too long, Justinian's University is back. It's time to finish off those pesky deities :)


The last update covered the war with America and Mali and the conquest of the former.
 
Update


So, Mansa is just a turn away from rifles, however Djenne (holy hinduist and statue of lib) is two turns away from my cavalry and is guarded by a couple longbowmen only. I send all my seven relatively healthy cuirassiers to attack it. BtS AI upgrading is costly, also upgrading removes the fortify 25% bonus, which means there's a chance to capture the city against a fresh rifle or two.

Meanwhile, I realize all American culture is gone, along with my war weariness, to be replaced with Mali influence. Boston and Philadelphia are 100% Malinese and have no conquest immunity to Malinese culture flip because I captured them from the Americans. I go straight to building culture, there's no time to wait for buildings to pay off. Culture flip % depends on the number of nearby tiles with dominant foreign culture, so expanding to 100 culture to get the hidden +20 culture/turn per tile is vital.

There's no time to complete Rifling and upgrade to Cavalry. Instead I switch research to Corporations planning to revolt from Mercantilism to Free Trade as soon as I get the bonus trade route. For now, I revolt from Nationalism to Bureacracy to maximize the commerce in the new capital, Numidian.

Next turn, Mansa brings numerous reinforcements in the conflict zone, including some airships. I advance one more turn and get to Djenne in hope the AI will empty it of some of the units. but it's not to be. My disappointed cuirassiers pillage some towns to the ground and then I sue peace, getting some money for it.

Suleiman asks me to convert to Judaism, and I agree (for 5 turns only of course). Since now we're freindly and he's out of the war with Mansa too, we sign Defensive Pact as well.

The Pact is not very popular with my other allies, nor is my trade of Divine Right to Mansa for ~500 gold. Whatever. My spies report Mansa can research Electricity in 15 turns or so, meaning my research rate is about to surpass his. It's Scientific Method after Corporations, and now we're turns away from Biology.

The two GP I had plus a new great scientist build two academies in Constantinople and Numdian and the great prophet settles in Numidian.

The Byzantine empire adopts Free Trade and Hinduism. Su agrees to convert to Hinduism for Replacable Parts and I agree because I need him friendly.

Scientific Method reveals everyone has oil *sigh*. Nevertheless, Angora starts on a settler to claim an extra oil for my empire in the jungles north.


The old and the developing new capital:

oldcap.jpg


newcap.jpg


Empire overview 1330 AD

empov.jpg
 

Attachments

Update


Nothing overly interesting in this update. We get Biology and trade it to Su for Communism and money. Simultaneously, a turn of research (I risk going low in gold reserve because a random event has just happened: +1 food at NY grocer) is invested in Steam Power so that this turn we can trade for it with the Romans. They won't agree for steampower+democracy for biology+communism tho, and taking military science instead of democracy seems pointless (who needs grens??)

Btw, Mansa's airships, rifles, and cavalries pwn Boudica's cannons and grens. For first time in centuries Boudica is routed and loses Seattle, her last stonghold in Mali. She does build a new one tho, in the jungles north of Angora, beating my settler by a turn.

At which point I realize we might of had a chance to win a Hindu diplo victory while Boudica had a Hindu city, if I had given away a Hindu city to Theology Saladin. Everyone hates Mansa and loves me, so...Anyway, Mansa is researching Radio in his quest for cultural victory, chances are he'll build UN for me.

BtS AI is very good at cultural victories. Religions play a big role in this, so it's Mansa and Su I need to watch. Soon I'll make some calculatuons of Mansa's cultural speed (you'll see how).

Right now, the Byzantines are finally growing to proper caps. What next? Whipping levees, factories, and coal plants is one option. Emancipation and cottaging right away is another. This is important. Opinion anyone?

The techs

techz.jpg
 

Attachments

I think your choice here depends on the victory condition you are aiming for. If you're going for a diplomatic victory, I think you may be better served staying with the farms and building infrastructure to attack more cities. Assuming Mansa builds the UN (which he probably will considering his beeline), you'll be the likely second candidate. So just butter up enough votes to win and you'll be set.

If you're going for CE, you'll probably have to tear up your land with cottages and adopt emancipation. Either route though, you're probably going to have to attack Mansa at some point to stop his culture run. I imagine he's beeling MM for the culture wonders as they provide big culture bonuses. Are you going to take down Mansa with or without nukes?
 
Let's see...

How far is Mansa from cultural? His third highest city is Walata, currently at 4000, gaining 128/turn. Zooming (fog of war is irrelevant once a city is mapped):

walata.jpg



Hermitage is there +100%
Jewish Syn +50%
Hindu Mandir +50%
Free Speech +100%
multipliers = 300%

cultural building likely to be 1000+ yrs old
hindu temple = 2
confu temple = 2
jew temple = 2
hindu monastery = 4
confu monastery = 4
jew monastery = 4
monument = 2
library = 4
theatre = 6

cultural buildings likely to be less than 1000 yrs old
university = 3

religions = 3
specialists = unknown
culture rate = unknown

total = 36 x 4 = 144...guess I was wrong about some of the doubled values

The city has numerous cottages, so its final run will be powerful...but still, at the current rate it'll take nearly 400 turns to get to 50,000.


What are my win options

Diplo thru UN or Hindu if I manage to spread it to Theology maniacs Saladin and Boudica. I have the highest pop, two friendly AIs, and the other candidate is universally hated.

Domination thru conquest of weaker Saladin and Ceaser, and then Mansa.

Space thru cottaging or SE.

Cultural can be done theoretically, I have multiple religions in my empire.


On war v Mansa: It can be done as soon as Infantry and Artillery is around. First I'll bribe Su into war (and possibly others) and then backstab. Should be easy.
 
Why would you bribe, and then BS? I assume you want to wait a bit, let stacks collide, and THEN attack?

Because, if you declare war FIRST, then bribe, the bribes will be much cheaper. But also importantly, you are ahead in the que once you drag war allies in behind you. So when Mansu comes out of NO-TALK mode, you are the first in line to get peace-prizes, and/or vassal choice. Instead of getting screwed...
 
Suleiman is on the other side of Mansa, so the idea would be to draw Mansa's SoDs and airships there.

War v Mansa is only an option tho. He has no way to victory atm. In fact, no AI has. The game is won unless I screw up somehow.

The to-do list is:
- identify any possible screw ups
- choose post-growth strat: industrialization or emancipation


In a somewhat longer perspective, choose between domination/spaceship. Diplo will remain an option once Mansa completes the UN. I won't bother with attempting cultural.
 
Domination, Space would be pretty hard unless you changed to a full CE, since, at the current rate you will never have a tech lead, plus once everyone has a shot at it, no one will trade you ANY techs, unless you beeline for computers and build the internet, Space Race is nearly impossible.

Domination and/or Diplo are probably more feasible.
 
unless you beeline for computers and build the internet, Space Race is nearly impossible.

What?? I'm pretty sure U. Sun isn't shaking in his boots about that.
 
Incan Emperor said:
Domination, Space would be pretty hard unless you changed to a full CE, since, at the current rate you will never have a tech lead, plus once everyone has a shot at it, no one will trade you ANY techs, unless you beeline for computers and build the internet, Space Race is nearly impossible.

Of course the science rate isn't exploding but as he has done some fighting he has now the land to get the economy running. The chosen victory type will determine whether or not to switch to a CE:

Unconquered Sun said:
Space thru cottaging or SE.

That suggests switching to a CE for Space which I'd agree. Space should be ok to achieve given the mass of land USun has. As to launching before MM hits Triple-Legendary: As USun said, MM is pretty screwed, mainly b/c everyone hates him. But if he wouldn't be stopped by the AI, razing one of The Three Great Ones should be accomplishable. No other civ should be able to keep up to the mad science rate those (potential), emancipation-boosted cottages produce.


I personally prefer a Domination Victory as it's my favourite (:p ) and it makes good use of Byzantine's UB (one of my favourite as well :p). You'll probabely have to delay war until you hit Industrialism for Tanks and especially for Marines as you really can use them. Invading MM is not such a great idea since you don't have a techlead over him and you have to build up your economy first. I don't know exactly the diplo/tech situation as I didn't look at the save but I'd say you could start by taking (protective :() Saladin because he seems to be backwards. He has some coastal cities which can be taken simultaneously. That gives you a foothold on the other continent and opens up several ways to attack Cesar; again coastal attacks as well as 1-2 SoDs rushing throught his inland cities. Then taking Boudicas land wouldn't be much of a problem. If you look at the Victory screen, you can see whether you need to attack MM as well for the land (not sure if you'll need that..).
Domintaion victory would surely be more entertaining :scan: but on the other hand, it wouldn't make use of the diplomatic situation..


So my vote (woah, didn't even know I had one :lol: goes to Domination :)
 
The good thing about AI cultural victories is that they have not learnt how to stock up and do a massive Great Artist burst right at the end. But at the same time, here's also the real problem: you can see 3 most cultured cities on the victory conditions screen, BUT, since the AI's spread cathedrals evenly, if you raze a legendary city, the 4th most cultured city would only be slightly less cultured. It's not like humans where they have 3 highly cultured cities and 3 only. Stopping a cultural victory through war is not really an option.

I would've suggested war with the Mali, but seriously... MM sucks at war BEFORE he gets the tech lead. Not after. But his lands are also delicious, and taking them would guarantee an economic and production lead into space. Plus you won't need transports. Would it be practical to mass draft and abuse the hippodrome?
 
Strange. In all my experiences with BtS so far, the AI only focuses 3 on legendary. There is no other city that is slightly less cultured (ever). Taking, or razing just one of the big three nerfs them completely till the end of the game. The AI doesn't understand yet what has happened when it lost one of its KEY cities, and continues about with the same civics etc, trying to get a culture win with no hope at all.

Again, the AI is just so incredibly stupid.

I still can't stop shaking my head at the guy who told me to stop berrating the AI, as the new BtS had a superb AI without any problems. LOL!!!
 
Gift missionaries and win through ap? You can even gift missionaries in a caravel if needed(if you don't have open borders).
 
Gift missionaries and win through ap? You can even gift missionaries in a caravel if needed(if you don't have open borders).
If they aren't already in that religion, I've always thought that they won't convert their own cities. Since Sal and Boudicca seem to digg Theology, I am unsure if they even have the possibility to convert their own cities to a different religion (hinduism).
 
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