KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

Nice Turns!

Have we thought about where we want our FP yet? The double wheat spot that the Keltoi have looks appealing, unless we want all of France, but who would want that big chunk of jungle? :ack:
 
Great stuff!

Oops, I'm UP!

OK, Got it. I'll have a look around and come back with questions, I'm sure. The landscape has changed a lot since I was last in Spain :)

Tomoyo said:
Nice Turns!

Have we thought about where we want our FP yet? The double wheat spot that the Keltoi have looks appealing, unless we want all of France, but who would want that big chunk of jungle? :ack:

When I played this first time around the Kelts had the nerve to declare on me. What could I do but destroy them, and use a timely leader to build me a new Palace in Entremont. I had previously taken the precaution of building a Forbidden Palace just down the road from Madrid :D
 
Great turns! What's that -17 cities and two settlers at 1000 BC... :goodjob:

I am leaving, so only a couple thoughts.
- What about horsemen instead of Archers?
- What about speeding up with Republic? (to be traded against Swords upgrade, admittedly. How many do we want?)
- There was a third one, but I can't remember.
- FP: I like the Celt lands the better, but with our cities nicely arranged in rings around Madrid it looks like we are forced to rush the FP. Should have thought about that at the beginning...
Ah, btw, the Keltoi are starting to become useless in the tech race... :devil2:
 
Maybe we should ring the FP with the same rings... In the Kelt's Land of course. :)
 
Had a look around and I have some concerns about our position:

The AI are near to filling their spaces. We have an English settler pair nearby, and I predict we'll have them or the Kelts or Joan declaring war on us pretty soon. We only have 14 warriors, most of whom are regulars, so we look weak. We only have one barracks, so building a decent military force is going to take some time. There may be trouble ahead :eek:

Agreed we should cancel our only archer build and switch to horses. Archers are OK for killing barbs and for early rushes but we are one tech away from the MA. By the time we could build a force of archers they'd be up against pikes :eek:

In case anyone is unaware, I believe in fast units and never build defenders, so any military build started in the next ten turns will be a horse.

We've done a great job of settler production. However, we are desperately short of workers. 14 workers and a few slaves is woefully inadequate for our soon-to-be 20 cities, hence the number of unimproved tiles being worked. We need 15-20 more workers to service our empire.

BTW: There's nothing wrong with our rings. A Forbidden Palace could be built in Barcelona in under 30 turns, and would have about 8 cities within radius 5. If we build a Palace in Entremont, raze Eburacum and keep the rest of the Keltoi core they have a ring at RCP 5. Barcelona and its 8 local cities will all be at corruption rank 1 along with the first ring around Entremont. That's over a dozen cities with minimal corruption.
 
Alan keep up the good work on the FP location and corruption numbers. I still get confused at times on that, although I am learning.

Couple points I saw have already been mentioned, workers, warriors and no horses.

Karasu asked about speeding up for Republic. We would have to set sci to 70% at -6gpt just to cut the research time by 3 turns. I would rather have the near 1000 gold added to the treasury by keeping it at 0% with 1 scientist which currently yields +35gpt.

We are 9th in land area
1st in Mfg Good, Annual Income & Productivity
2nd in GNP

I don't see Casa del Nikofa anywhere (hint hint).
 
DJMGator13 said:
Alan keep up the good work on the FP location and corruption numbers. I still get confused at times on that, although I am learning.

Couple points I saw have already been mentioned, workers, warriors and no horses.

Karasu asked about speeding up for Republic. We would have to set sci to 70% at -6gpt just to cut the research time by 3 turns. I would rather have the near 1000 gold added to the treasury by keeping it at 0% with 1 scientist which currently yields +35gpt.

We are 9th in land area
1st in Mfg Good, Annual Income & Productivity
2nd in GNP

I don't see Casa del Nikofa anywhere (hint hint).

I'm just getting started. I've increased net gpt by 10% :D One of our settlers is going to try to replace Villalanh. It was wise to settle on the spot to deny the space to the English, but those towns are too close together, and we can maybe grab more territory.

We mostly have tundra to claim in the north. One settler's heading that way, but settler production can be scaled down now. Madrid will continue to produce to fill the northern wastelands, and I'm going to switch Barcelona to workers for a bit, then maybe we should go for the FP there?

Techs are about to get expensive, so I agree we should build the treasury rather than spend on research. At deity it's cheaper to buy than to research fast anyway.

Next stop Casa del Nikofa :bounce:
 
AlanH said:
I've increased net gpt by 10% :D
Eep! Well I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how you managed that! (hope it was by selling a lux...) :p

I was wondering whether I should have run the priorities a bit differently? I had realized that we were short on military, hadn't realized the workers were as big of a concern, but that's a bit of a blind spot for me :rolleyes:.

Should I have slowed down the settlers a bit? Was filling up the available land without a military in place for when the AI provokes a war too risky? I'd thought it was just playing to our strengths (2 settler factories), and we only had 1 barracks in place iirc, so not too many veteran units could be produced. I focused on warriors since we could get 1 every 2 turns, and the Swordsmen upgrade was coming soon to make them effective.

Not trying to be defensive (really!), just trying to learn how others think about the game, and how people might have played this differently, so I can improve!

BTW, I'm heading off on Monday for a month travelling. London, Moscow, St. Petersburg, the Baltic states, and Latvian relatives I've mostly never met. Will of course check in by internet cafe from time to time! I trust you'll leave me an SS component to build.

Looking forward to enjoying my morning :coffee: in my new Casa, AlanH! Have fun!
 
@Nikof: I wasn't being critical (well, maybe about the workers ;) ). My concerns were mainly expressed as an attempt to focus my mind on the changes we need to make now. I think the settler pumping was correct up to this point, but now we can slow down and use Barcelona differently. We do need a stronger military, and we may be at risk for a little while, but the problem is longer term than one turn set.

Turn 80 1000 BC - Preflight
Fixed the save to remove the space after the last city name.
Long term objective is fast research.
Short term - Prioritise workers, and get more roads built. Switch to horses and build some barracks. Get iron and ivory hooked up and move into Republic.

Check F1. Speeded up Toledo barracks build. Switched Santiago to horse from archer. Moved some citizens around to maximise gpt without jeopardising production. Overall I increased net gpt from 35 to 38.

The main area of MM was reducing Madrid to 6spt at pop 5 and Barcelona to 5spt. You only need two turns at 6spt and two at 7spt to build a settler because the forest supplies two estra shields at each pop increase. 6x2 + 7x2 + 2x2 = 30. That means you can use the lake for an extra 2gpt.

Moved Madrid's settler east towards Villalanh to move it. Moved Barcelona settler north.

Checked F4. Our WMap is a bit out of date as most civs want some gold for a swap. But Ottomans will swap at parity. That updates it in spades and reverses the situation, and we get 28 gold from the others for map swaps :D

IBT
French settler appears from Avignon. Seville pops a galley, starts another.

Turn 81 975 BC
Build casa del Nikofa on the west coast hill. Start a worker.
Galley explores for possible western shallow extensions. None found

Move the scientist from Valencia to Villalanh as the latter is not going to last long. MM everything again for 42 gpt.
F4: Zulus have Poly as a monopoly. Let's broker it for him to keep the tech pace alive. Shaka wants 18gpt + 399 + WM for Poly (equivalent to ~720 gold). The others have a total of 662 gold so we can buy it from Shaka, sell it to the others and maybe get most of our cash back. We do the deal with Shaka. The Kelts have the most cash, but they musgt be researching it already, so we don't get all of it - 164 of his 230. The others give their full treasuries and we get 596 gold back. We are 197 gold up and 18 gpt down, so Poly cost us net ~140. The Ottomans have no cash, but they'll get Poly through the Great Library, and that will put them into the Middle Ages. As they are scientific we'll see Monotheism on the table next turn.

IBT
Lots of AI settlers wandering about. Barcelone worker -> worker

Turn 82 950 BC
MM Madrid and Barcelona, Slider 9.0.1 for Madrid pop 6.
Ottomans have Polytheism via the Great Library. Should have given it to them for some attitude points, I guess :smoke: They have Monotheism as their freebie, but won't trade.

Settlers head for their destinations. Workers work.
Galley explores.

IBT
AI settlers heading north into our territory.
Santiago horse -> horse
Valencia worker -> worker
Tomoyoton barracks -> horse

Turn 83 925 BC
Rush temple in Mistfitzia. Ottomans still have Mono monopoly and won't trade.

IBT
Iron hooked up.
AI Setters wander about in the general direction of the northern wastelands.
Madrid settler->settler
Barcelona worker->worker
Mistfitzia temple -> worker

Turn 84 900 BC
MM everything. Slider -> 10.0.0
Zulus have none of our cash left, Joan has a satisfied grin and lots of cash. Did she sell them iron?
Galley heads west, suicidally!
Abandon Villananh and rebuild it further north. Move the scientist back to Valencia

IBT
2 French settlers move north, French galley sets out on west coast heading north - probably another settler. Kelt settlers heading north! French galley is killed by squid. Squid is red-lined. How sad!

Suicide galley doesn't sink!

Turn 85 875 BC
Galley heads west and sees coast and a blue border. No contact.
Build Vitoria in north west to limit Kelts. Rush temple in Zaragoza.
MM. F4 - no change

IBT
Barcelona worker->worker
Zaragoza temple->worker
Djorm-Gator worker->worker
Galley sinks :(

Turn 86 850 BC
Sell map around for 60 gold + maps, as we've pushed back some fog.

IBT
Santiago horse->horse
Murchia worker->worker
Ciudad de la Luna barracks->horse

Turn 87 825 BC
Move workers and settlers

India has Republic. France and Ottomans both have Monotheism. I smell a 2-fer.
France gives us Monotheism for 744 gold + furs + WM
India gives us Republic for Monotheism + 1gpt + 1 gold + WM
Shaka gives us WM + 8gpt + 150 gold for Republic
Kelts give us 115 gold + WM for Republic

I chose to sell Republic to get the AI onto a more productive government and hopefully push the tech pace along. Also, if they are in Republic and we find ourselves at war we can maybe inflict war weariness on them.

We switch to Engineering and revolt. Hire a couple of entertainers and taxmen to manage happiness during the 1 turn Anarchy.

IBT Select Despotism :mischief:

Turn 88 800 BC
A new era and a new government. [party] We are middle aged (Spanish) Republicans.
Slider goes to 8.0.2 until the ivory is hooked up next turn. The Kelts and Zulus seem to have taken against us and are annoyed about something. I guess they don't like Republicans :hmm:

IBT
Madrid setter->settler
Barcelona worker->worker

Turn 89 775 BC
MM and work

IBT Toledo barracks->horse.

Turn 90 750 BC
MM and work.

After action report
We have a settler on our next city location on the north coast, within reach of whales. Zaragoza will expand next turn and should fill most of the gap. One more fishing village site is available on the northern peninsula, maybe 2 if we're greedy. We have a settler heading that way who should beat the opposition.

I didn't eject the AI because they are just isolated units, and I figured that annoying them would just be asking for trouble.

We probably don't need any more settlers for a while, so feel free to re-purpose Madrid. We have about 20 workers now, and can probably still use some more to improve and connect our new northern cities. I think if I were continuing I'd switch Madrid to workers and Barcelona to Forbidden Palace now or soon.

Joan has dyes for sale. She wants about the same in cash as we'd save by reducing the lux slider to zero. A gpt deal may be a good idea, as during the 20 turn period of a deal we'll probably get an advantage from a zero lux slider as our pop grows in other towns, and it *might* reduce the chances of her declaring war.

We should consider building markets if we keep the science slider low, or libraries if we are going turn the wick up. Points for discussion ...

Attache is a screenie showing our empire and our successful suicide attempt (the suicide *was* successful :rolleyes: )

And here's the save for the next better player
 

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As Alan & probably Mistfit are already aware I need to swap. Hurricane Jeanne is now forecasted to pass right over where I live tomorrow as a Cat 1 hurricane. So if you don't see me online I probably have no power. Hope to see everyone on the other side of the storm.

Don't forget Scoutsout, he's just slightly north of me but still in the forecasted path himself.
 
Good luck Gator. We'll be thinking of you. Scoutsout too if he's lurking

As I haven't seen a roster for a while, and Karasu tends not to do weekends, here's a list showing Mistfit UP, and Gator to take it when the winds die down;

Tomoyo - waiting for Gator to play
Karasu - celebrating hs Maths result
Nikof - drinking :coffee: in the piazza in his new city
AlanH - just played
Gator - On deck, but huddled under a storm jib
Mistfit - UP
 
Well played!
Middle Ages AND Republic in 800 BC :wow:

I am just checking in after a busy week -true, I am normally offline during weekends, and I had dropped the roster for a few days as you all looked so clever at remembering it :mischief: ...

Indeed, we are better off doing almost no research at all than if we tried to do some (that was the leitmotiv of Jumpmasters, after all...). There will be a point in the game, however, at which we will have to take the lead, I guess. I have no clue as to when it will come -late MA, early IA maybe?
From this point of view, it may be good to build a few marketplaces but leave libraries on hold till later on. Or not?

Hard luck with the galley. Hopefully the next one will make it!

By looking at the map, I would settle one or two more cities to the northwest and maybe one east: the pure expansion phase is definitely over.
I am fully aligned with Alan's approach -so I would keep on building Horsemen only from now on.
Our warriors may be useful for a limited war with France, limited -that is- to their jungle cities. We may want to settle the jungle area just to keep on growing, but we will need to discuss that too.
I doubt that we can affort to challenge the Celts' UU at the moment. Maybe with Knights...

I also agree with the dyes deal. Let us just check that there are enough land and sea routes -we don't want the deal to be broken in case of a war or something.

Talking about war, I think they should be short. We don't want the entire world to stop research and begin fighting one another -this is probably the kind of game in which we want the AI to grow till the end.

@Gator and Scoutsout: good luck with Jeanne, and... shouldn't the dry season arrive soon?

EDIT: for the PtW roster...

--- Keypoint 1: Middle Ages ---

Plus a recap of our 1000BC stats (thanks to Civassist ;) )
17 cities
36 citizens (1 specialist)
33 units (12 workers, 4 slaves) -right, and 3 settlers
352 gold
198 culture
152 tiles
Techs: all AA techs except Polytheism, Republic, Monarchy
Score: 377
 
I just warned the other roster that we have reached the MA (as you might have suspected reading the edit in my last post above... ;) ).

I also told them that we have a potentially spoiling map that shows a suicide galley's path across the unknown seas. Since many have already played GOTM20, it shouldn't be a problem.

BTW, Do you think that we should open another thread somewhere to discuss our approaches to the game, or just wildly cross post in these two? I have no strong opinion on this.
 
Does that mean we are supposed to mess each other's thread up with many random points, usually posting the same thing in both?
 
Karasu said:
Plus a recap of our 1000BC stats (thanks to Civassist ;) )
17 cities
36 citizens (1 specialist)
33 units (12 workers, 4 slaves)
352 gold
198 culture
152 tiles
Techs: all AA techs except Polytheism, Republic, Monarchy
Score: 377
I think you'l find we also had three settlers. One was about to plant a city and the other two had just been born in our two settler factories.

Re. Spoilers. I've never felt any temptation to go looking at other team threads in SGOTM. I'm not sure I'm interested in seeing their approach, or in them seeing ours, until we've finished, but feel free :)
 
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