Kal-el's Unit Concept Sketches

[Plexus]

LOVE the new Egyptian sketches, Kal. If only I was talented in creating units.

 

[Xen]

great units Kal-Elm, interesting how those guys look like these guys I saw in a movie one time - i'll have to post that future Egyptian infantry soon, as while similer, Ihave always thought that if Eygpt survived, stylistically, its troops would have ended up similer to what ever the Persians, or other middle eastern Juggernaut, was wearing...

 

[Amenhotep7]

THESE EGYPTIAN UNITS ARE FANTASTIC! Now I shall celebrate. [dance] How am I supposed to play a regular game of Civ with these guys in my head?

Originally posted by Runamok Monkey
EDIT: The sooner we have blood-lusting knights of anubis charging against the ranks of the cold-blooded fulminata, the more pleasant the world of Civ3 will be.

I agree! Feel the pain Romans at the hand of the almighty Egyptian Army!

 

[computerdude113]

Kal-el, these are amazing. I have a thought though, the Knight of Anubis (one of the coolest looking thing's i've seen) IMHO would look better off of the horse. The samurai (sp?) isn't on a horse, and I think that that the KoA would look better un-mounted. That's just my thought though.
Thank's for these wonderful sketches, keep up the great work!

 

[Kinboat]

No fair putting me on the spot like that LouLong With these wonderful sketches Kal-el just keeps giving me more work to do. All I can say is 'bottom of the list'
And you missed the larger view of the Swordsman

Plus I agree the knight would look better unmounted, did the Egyptians even use horses (aside from chariots of course)?

 

[Kindred72]

The Egyptians are awsome. I think they are reminiscent of Stargate SG-1 IMHO. Of which, I've thought about putting together a mod for. hmmm.

 

[aaminion00]

Nooooooo! Make the knight mounted!

"Did the Egyptians ever use horses?"

Well did they ever have their soldiers running around in masks resembling their gods?? Probably not. These are fictional units and this is a fictional game. What we're doing here is not necessarily looking for what ancient Egyptian unit would best replace the knight, but what an Egyptian knight (knight meaning guy in armor on horseback) would look like! If we kept trying to implement Ancient era flavor units that the Egyptians never used even though they were in the same age, we'll get nowhere. It's just like trying to come up with an Egyptian infantry. Was there ever an Egyptian infantry? No, not really, the ancient Egyptian culture represented in the game died out a long time ago. What would we do there? Make a really powerful Egyptian archer running around in the modern age? The knight has the same exact issue. The Egyptians never used it (remember that the civ3 knight unit comes a whole era after the egyptians essentially died out). If you want to have an Egyptian knight unit, either make an Arabic-Egyptian horse rider, or make up a mounted guy in ancient Egyptian armor. Whatever you do, DON'T make him walking around, because that defeats the whole purpose of a knight.

 

[aaminion00]

And as for the samurai, he doesn't count.

1) He's a unique unit. No fictional flavor units would be unique units, and there's no justifying having a medieval foot unit with 2 movement points.

2) The Samurai came before medieval infantry came about. In reality, the Samurai should be a unique unit replacing the medieval infantry instead of the knight.

 

[Xen]

e ept fo rthe fact that the samurai were a warrior cast, and the specifics of how they went to battle are left up to the individual- there were horseback samuarai, and archer samurai, and foot troop samurai, and so on, as, again, it was the name for anentire class of noblemen, not a specific type of troop

as for designing more futureistic egyptiuan troops- i agree, that chances are, while very cool, those guys dont have a chance in hell of have being real troops (the egyptians did not put on masks, or gods heads on anyone except of for the preits overseeing the emblaming process, besides, even if they did, it would not be Hourus, Osirus,Anubus, or most other gods that they would hav represent the aspect of war)

 

[Amenhotep7]

Yeah, they didn't go around putting masks on, but hey, maybe that could be ceremonial for officers or something. I eagerly await these units! Of course, Kinboat is one of the busiest unit makers around, so I wouldn'rt expect them for a long time.

Edit: Yes, I know troops NEVER put on God masks, me being an aspiring Egyptologist, but the flavor is too good to ignore!

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Xen
except fo rthe fact that the samurai were a warrior cast, and the specifics of how they went to battle are left up to the individual- there were horseback samuarai, and archer samurai, and foot troop samurai, and so on, as, again, it was the name for anentire class of noblemen, not a specific type of troop

Xen - I know all about the Samurai and Ashigaru caste. Go check my posts in the unit library where I had to come up with civilopedia entries for all of Kinboat's units. You learn pretty fast

Only through western ignorance have we come up with the idea of the Samurai that many people here have. Samurai were in fact required to master all sorts of weapons, from sword to spear to bow, and honor a strict code. However, if you look at the Samurai that C3C uses, then it should obviously be a medieval infantry replacement.

Originally posted by Xen
as for designing more futureistic egyptiuan troops- i agree, that chances are, while very cool, those guys dont have a chance in hell of have being real troops (the egyptians did not put on masks, or gods heads on anyone except of for the preits overseeing the emblaming process, besides, even if they did, it would not be Hourus, Osirus,Anubus, or most other gods that they would hav represent the aspect of war)

I'd think that perhaps Egyptian "knights" might have used the images of wild beasts such as crocodiles or lions or jackals to decorate their helms, but the most important thing is for the helm to offer protection, and that cannot be forgotten. If the helm could be decorated while protecting your head than I think something like this isn't too unlikely.

 

[Ozymandias]

OK, here's a monkey wrench into the works -- IF the Egyptians had survived, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they would have encountered and domesticated the (now extinct) North African elephant, just as the Carthaginians did? (NB: the African elephant is NOT domesticable.)

-Oz

 

[Amenhotep7]

That's a wondeful idea, Ozymandias! But I don't think Egyptian Elephant cavalry would be all that common. The Egyptian style of battle was speed and manueverability, and the horse gives that moreso than the elephant. But it would have probably happened...as I said, they'd probably be a small-time corps...

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Amenhotep7
That's a wondeful idea, Ozymandias! But I don't think Egyptian Elephant cavalry would be all that common. The Egyptian style of battle was speed and manueverability, and the horse gives that moreso than the elephant. But it would have probably happened...as I said, they'd probably be a small-time corps...

... "Small", as in, "limited to the nobility" aka "knight UU" ?

-Oz

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by ozymandias
OK, here's a monkey wrench into the works -- IF the Egyptians had survived, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they would have encountered and domesticated the (now extinct) North African elephant, just as the Carthaginians did? (NB: the African elephant is NOT domesticable.)

-Oz

I'm planning to make a huge mod, in the style of DYP and Steph's mod, as soon as I finish playing all the conquests to get a grasp on the new possibilities. Here's my position on that.

An elephant unit and a knight unit should be seperate. I will use Dom Pedro's Elephant rider and elephant cavalry as a completely different unit line from the knight, with slightly better attack but a smaller defense. The Indian unique unit would become a replacement for the medieval elephant rider. This way, the elephant unit line could require an ivory resource while a knight unit line would require horses and iron. The Egyptians would need different units for elephant riders and knights.

I think an Egyptian elephant rider would be an awsome idea, but not a knight replacement, because the standard "knight" and "elephant rider" were used very differently in battle.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

This is all very cool... and I actually have some props for these units...


So if the African Elephant is not domesticable, I take it then that all of Hannibal's elephants were Indian? Hell of a thing to have elephants right in your back yard, but you have to go a 1,000+ miles to find one you can use...


EDIT: Also, I'm surprised that Kryten hasn't shown up to argue these sketches...

 

[Xen]

actually, there are 3 supspecies f Elephant

-North African (smallest of all three, what Carthage, and Ptolemaic Egypt used ofr war elephants)

-Indian (larger then the first, and more then likelly has the best temperment for domestication)

-Sub Saharan (largest of them all, compleatelyl undomestcatable IIRC)

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
This is all very cool... and I actually have some props for these units...


So if the African Elephant is not domesticable, I take it then that all of Hannibal's elephants were Indian? Hell of a thing to have elephants right in your back yard, but you have to go a 1,000+ miles to find one you can use...


EDIT: Also, I'm surprised that Kryten hasn't shown up to argue these sketches...

well yes, but since civ3 is a fictional game, anyone could have acess to an ivory resource, and therefore elephants. Therefore, the Native Americans should have an elephant riding flavor unit.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II

So if the African Elephant is not domesticable, I take it then that all of Hannibal's elephants were Indian? Hell of a thing to have elephants right in your back yard, but you have to go a 1,000+ miles to find one you can use...

No no! -- There was a breed of North African elephant which Hannibal used which became extinct in (obviously) historic times.

-- BTW that's why I personally DON'T use ivory as a prerequisite for elephants -- ivory in North Africa looks, well strange, and it shouldn't "count" in sub-Saharan Africa.

Best,

Oz

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by aaminion00


well yes, but since civ3 is a fictional game, anyone could have acess to an ivory resource, and therefore elephants. Therefore, the Native Americans should have an elephant riding flavor unit.

I've always thought that an interesting mod would simply be based around what-if the New World megafauna (horses, camels, and elephants) hadn't become extinct ...

-Oz