Keeping the Game Challenging

[Hydromancerx]

I play Snail, what Speed do you guys play?

I play on snail and deity and I always in need of gold. But I would expect that to be the case on the hardest setting.

 

[Yudishtira]

Gold
Complaint: There is Too much Gold.
Solution: Raise Inflation

Inflation is a game mechanism that is there to increase the cost of everything.

Sounds like a good idea. That's what inflation really should 'classically' mean after all - that there is so much gold it is now worth less (according to supply-and-demand).

Thanks for working on this. Same with population too (cities of 20million+ in the Renaissance are just wrong)

I'm in Renaissance on Deity (Marathon) and the SVN is better on gold than v29 was. I now am running a deficit, although my balance never seems to go down (hovering around 40000 even with -200 to -800 per turn range...) The AIs - even though upgrades don't seem to cost them anything - never get above 1000 gold. (I should probably mention I started - in v29 - on Noble with Increasing Difficulty, but I have been on Immortal/Deity now for as long as I can remember...). Oh and I'm still running on 0% tax - just spending on research and espionage.

The gold I had amassed (and my stinginess with upgrades) are not the fault of the current version. But it is still a problem imo that I don't need any tax at all - on Deity I should need 40-50% most of the time don't you agree?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I play noble snail. Up until the Renaissance I have a great shortage of gold this lessens in the mid to late Renaissance where I have just enough gold. I don't often play beyond that as I am not that interested in the later eras.

 

[strategyonly]

I play noble snail. Up until the Renaissance I have a great shortage of gold this lessens in the mid to late Renaissance where I have just enough gold. I don't often play beyond that as I am not that interested in the later eras.

Is there a modcomp out there that lets you end in a certain era rather than going to the end?

 

[Azurian]

Proposed Changes

iInflationPercent = Percent of inflation rate
iInflationOffset = Number of turns that pass before Inflation begins
iGoldModifier = Global percentage modifier for ALL costs. Higher equals less gold, lower equals more gold. Default is 100

A
Old

Gamespeed|Old iGoldModifer|Old Inflation % | Old Inflation Offset
Eternity|115 | 3 | -900 |
Eons|100|4|-700|
Snail|105|7 |-400|
Marathon|100| 10| -240|
Epic| 90| 10 |-190|
Normal| 80|15 |-90|
Quick|80|45|-60
Blitz|80| 65|-40

A
New

Gamespeed|New iGoldModifer|New Inflation % | New Inflation Offset
Eternity|80 | 10 | -720 |
Eons|90|15|-600|
Snail|100|20 |-480|
Marathon|100| 25| -360|
Epic| 110| 30 |-240|
Normal| 110|40 |-120|
Quick|120|50|-60
Blitz|120|60|-30

--

iConstructPercent Percentage rate for building buildings

A

Era| Old iConstruct | New iConstruct
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|100|120
Medieval|100|140
Rennassiance|100|160
Industrial|100|180
Modern |100|200
Transhuman|100|220
Galactic|100|240

iGrowthPercent = Percentage rate for city growth

The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.
A

Era| Old iGrowthPercent | New iGrowthPercent
Prehistoric|150|150
Ancient|not in code|175
Classical|not in code|200
Medieval|not in code|215
Rennassiance|not in code|230
Industrial|not in code|245
Modern |not in code|260
Transhuman|not in code|275
Galactic|not in code|300

iResearchPercent = Percentage rate for researching technologies

A
The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.

Era| Old iResearchPercent| New iResearchPercent
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|90|110
Medieval|80|120
Rennassiance|70|130
Industrial|60|140
Modern |50|150
Transhuman|40|160
Galactic|30|30 (temporary)

CulturePercent = Percentage rate for culture accumulation

The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.
A

Era| Old CulturePercent| New CulturePercent
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|100|110
Medieval|100|120
Rennassiance|90|130
Industrial|80|140
Modern |70|150
Transhuman|60|160
Galactic|55|55 (temporary)

 

[Thunderbrd]

I like a lot of these suggestions except I've been feeling the beginning of the game goes MUCH too fast on tech research while later it almost slows too far. What you're suggesting would exacerbate that problem greatly and I feel it needs to be adjusted the other way but then again perhaps that would be just as well addressed by adjusting the costs.

 

[Azurian]

I like a lot of these suggestions except I've been feeling the beginning of the game goes MUCH too fast on tech research while later it almost slows too far. What you're suggesting would exacerbate that problem greatly and I feel it needs to be adjusted the other way but then again perhaps that would be just as well addressed by adjusting the costs.

Would this be more appropriate?

iResearchPercent = Percentage rate for researching technologies

B
The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.

Era| Old iResearchPercent| New iResearchPercent
Prehistoric|100|200
Ancient|100|150
Classical|90|100
Medieval|80|75
Rennassiance|70|50
Industrial|60|40
Modern |50|30
Transhuman|40|20
Galactic|30|10(temporary)

 

[Sgtslick]

Proposed Changes

Era| Old iConstruct | New iConstruct
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|100|120
Medieval|100|140
Rennassiance|100|160
Industrial|100|180
Modern |100|200
Transhuman|100|220
Galactic|100|240

Finally someone has come to there senses ;D

I've been playing this way for over a year now, well not exactly, i increased iconstruct by about double (in every era). A scaled approach is nice, but harder to implement? Can it just go in the civ4erasinfos.xml ?

 

[Azurian]

Finally someone has come to there senses ;D

I've been playing this way for over a year now, well not exactly, i increased iconstruct by about double (in every era). A scaled approach is nice, but harder to implement? Can it just go in the civ4erasinfos.xml ?

It is civ4erasinfos.xml.

I can also do this:

iConstructPercent Percentage rate for building buildings

B

Era| Old iConstruct | New iConstruct
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|100|150
Medieval|100|200
Rennassiance|100|250
Industrial|100|300
Modern |100|350
Transhuman|100|400
Galactic|100|450

OR

iConstructPercent Percentage rate for building buildings

C

Era| Old iConstruct | New iConstruct
Prehistoric|100|75
Ancient|100|100
Classical|100|200
Medieval|100|300
Rennassiance|100|400
Industrial|100|500
Modern |100|600
Transhuman|100|700
Galactic|100|800

I personally perfer B.

 

[strategyonly]

I've been playing this way for over a year now, well not exactly, i increased iconstruct by about double (in every era).

What do you mean, pls explain how you do it and more importantly why?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Would this be more appropriate?


B
The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.

Era| Old iResearchPercent| New iResearchPercent
Prehistoric|100|200
Ancient|100|150
Classical|90|100
Medieval|80|75
Rennassiance|70|50
Industrial|60|40
Modern |50|30
Transhuman|40|20
Galactic|30|10(temporary)

I don't know about the later eras... for the early ones, yes.

 

[Azurian]

iResearchPercent = Percentage rate for researching technologies

C
The higher the number, the longer it takes. The lower, the faster.

Era| Old iResearchPercent| New iResearchPercent
Prehistoric|100|200
Ancient|100|150
Classical|90|125
Medieval|80|100
Rennassiance|70|100
Industrial|60|75
Modern |50|75
Transhuman|40|75
Galactic|30|75

<!-- BBAI start: effectively modify cost for all techs from this era. Default: 18 >
<iTechCostModifier>X</iTechCostModifier>

this works by manipulating how many beakers get applied to the tech, not by increasing tech costs shown in game.

So i propose:
A

Era| Old iTechCostModifier| New iTechCostModifier
Prehistoric|0|50
Ancient|80|100
Classical|188|150
Medieval|150|150
Rennassiance|230|175
Industrial|200|175
Modern |300|200
Transhuman|400|225
Galactic|500|250

--
So these will be the SVN Changes:

Gold (Plan A)
Construct (Plan B)
Research (Plan B)
Growth (Plan A)
Culture (Plan A)
Research (Plan C)
Tech Cost Modifier (Plan A)

 

[Sgtslick]

What do you mean, pls explain how you do it and more importantly why?

I used to complain on forums all the time how everything built too fast, I hated how the player had no real choice in what to build, but rather - in what order they wanted to build them.

So I have just been editing the gamespeedinfos.xml for ages now.

I even added the 'alternative speed' option to the game, (but couldn't get it to work, its still in the game but hidden).

To be exact I have been doing this ;
igrowth x1.075
itrain x1.59
iconstruct x2.03
icreate x1.30
ibuild x1.08

 

[Thunderbrd]

I used to complain on forums all the time how everything built too fast, I hated how the player had no real choice in what to build, but rather - in what order they wanted to build them.

So I have just been editing the gamespeedinfos.xml for ages now.

I even added the 'alternative speed' option to the game, (but couldn't get it to work, its still in the game but hidden).

To be exact I have been doing this ;
igrowth x1.075
itrain x1.59
iconstruct x2.03
icreate x1.30
ibuild x1.08

You might want to try it again. And if not now, soon. Alberts is working on some stuff that may have an impact on that. We also determined that it might be resolved after a game is started with the option, then get out of the mod, delete the cache and reload the mod and the game and it should work.

 

[Sgtslick]

Here are a couple of posts I made int he past

Spoiler :

The thing is at the moment its all about whether or not the positive out weighs the negative - its not a matter of priority/stategy. Once you've made the decision as to if a building is worth building or not, your 'strategy' then evolves into - a slightly bigger or smaller shift-click list!

You see how hollow of a 'strategy' this really is?

Spoiler :

You realise that isn't really a strategy game. You could essentially program what you wanted to do on turn one and auto-play 10,000 turns.. fun game.

If you don't have to weigh up priorities, make sacrifices, make hard choices between options - then its a one way street that tends to always end in the same way.

Does anyone feel like the building costs and this sort of mentality of 'I need to be able to build it all' or else the game has failed is wrongheaded. Its you who have failed, its you the player.. Even if its not possible - this feeling is a GOOD thing. Not feeling satisfied is a GOOD thing. There is nothing worse than queueing sh1t up and having no-doubt at the end of day you are gonna get it all.. There is nothing 'satisfying' about that.

@Hydro

Remember that we are not against the number of buildings or the amount of content. Its the fact that you can brainlessly build everything. There is no real strategy involved, no real decisions. As ridethespiral said, its idiotic. Keep making buildings, make a million more that sounds great, but if players are able to build 80% of them in 80% of there cities then c2c would be totally ********.

@SgtSlick
I agree with you mostly. I'm tires of shift clicking a list of 1 turn buildings. It's idiotic. Also I agree that units should be more hammers, specifically the atlatl. If I have pretty high production by when I get them I can build several in one turn.

However, I definitely feel like Sgtslick makes a solid point in the observation that you never have to choose between routes to go down, only between which you go down first (because ultimately you'll be able to do all the production stuff, then all the science stuff, then ... so you're only real choice is about timing).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Great, I find it the other way around I tech too fast and buildings are to slow to build. Which means that some buildings I never get to build because they obsolete too soon. The Captured Fire wonder that gives a golden age is one.

 

[Sgtslick]

Taking into consideration when stuff goes obsolete is part of the fun for me, I weigh up its worth taking into account how long I could have it for, or if it could be built at all before going obsolete etc.

 

[Faustmouse]

So cool that you try to work on it Mr Azure!

Regarding gold and inflantion, I must say that I had a game (Eons, Deity, Large Map) where I had plenty of gold (late Industrial) but then I decided to hurry some buildings and my inflation grew higher and higher. It went to over 1000%, killing my whole Economy and never get down again (I stopped hurrying buildings imediatly and switched to a civic that says "lowers Inflation")

 

[Sgtslick]

What your proposing is a pretty huge change Mr Azure, it'll probably need some tweaking I think. Using this 'increase by 50 each era for iconstruct' as an example, you might find these numbers are a bit off.

Personally I find ancient buildings quite cheap, some early industrial buildings are pretty expensive from what I remember, so like 100 for ancient and 300 for industrial might need to be 120 and 240 kinda thing.. Even more precise than this though, is what i'm suggesting. And the only way you will find this out is from playing.

 

[Azurian]

What your proposing is a pretty huge change Mr Azure, it'll probably need some tweaking I think. Using this 'increase by 50 each era for iconstruct' as an example, you might find these numbers are a bit off.

Personally I find ancient buildings quite cheap, some early industrial buildings are pretty expensive from what I remember, so like 100 for ancient and 300 for industrial might need to be 120 and 240 kinda thing.. Even more precise than this though, is what i'm suggesting. And the only way you will find this out is from playing.

That is what I am doing, I did a Balance Patch in SVN 6566 so we can get feedback from everybody. So far I haven't had issues but will know when I enter the Ancient Era. Even thou costs are raised, I managed to build 9 units, 6 buildings, 5 techs by turn 108 on Snail Speed. That's why I am not too concerned about Building cost but it will probably be tweaked once there is more data from myself and other players.

Edit
6569

Era | Research| Construction|Unit Training| Population Growth|Tech Modifer|Culture
Prehistoric| 75|115|115|150|75|75
Ancient | 125| 120| 120|175|100|100
Classical |125|140|140|200|125|115
Medieval |100|160|160|215|150|120
Renaissance |100|180|180|230|175|125
Industrial l|75|200|200|245|175|130
Modern | 75|220|220|260|200|135
Transhuman |75|240|240|275|225|140
Galactic |50|260|260|290|250|145