Kendrick vs Drake

[Crezth]

Degrassi lookin mf…

 

[Narz]

It's no hit em up that's for sure.

I hate when they start off all spoken word poetry style (was hoping that trend wouldve died ages ago) I lose interest like instantly, gotta catch me w a proper beat right off, don't just start talking, rap is for working out, bobbing your head, dancing.

I skipped ahead and the music doesn't get better unfortunately. Maybe it gets poetic but track so bad I couldn't listen.

Also who really cares about Drake, he's commerical, he's done been commercial, people who listen to his rap elevator music will continue to do so.

 

[Narz]

I couldn't listen so I tried to read it all but the **** went on and on like a post you just gotta skim... the other guy is fake, he's Canadian, not black enough, maybe gay, blah blah. Not feeling the vibe unfortunately I tried

Maybe hip-hop itself needs to retire like rock and roll cause the clumsy thing it's evolved into makes me sad. Gotta put on some big l and xzibit to cleanse my aural pallet

 

[Gori the Grey]

I hate when they start off all spoken word poetry style (was hoping that trend wouldve died ages ago) I lose interest like instantly, gotta catch me w a proper beat right off, don't just start talking, rap is for working out, bobbing your head, dancing.

I assume this is your response to Euphoria specifically. I haven't got that far, so I'll say more about the specifics when I do, but in general, I have the exact opposite view of rap that you do. Let the beat emerge from the words alone. Rap is for punning, rhyming, spinning words around. The music is incidental. Rap is more fundamentally a genre of poetry, for me, than of music. You've got "Eye of the Tiger" for lifting weights.

 

[Lexicus]

So @Hygro and @schlaufuchs i listened to euphoria like 6 or 7 times yesterday at work and it grew on me

 

[Narz]

I assume this is your response to Euphoria specifically. I haven't got that far, so I'll say more about the specifics when I do, but in general, I have the exact opposite view of rap that you do. Let the beat emerge from the words alone. Rap is for punning, rhyming, spinning words around. The music is incidental.

Rap is music. If you just want to write, make a poetry book or a Twitter post.

Obviously its a synthesis, a crap artist rapping on a classic beat is just painful. It's the music combined with the lyrics that carries you away like pink Floyd.

Add the video element and you've got three layers altho they're rarely all beautiful (I remember being a kid when MTV was coming up and 90% of the time the music video would spoilt the song more than bring it up, as movies more often than not due to books) but occasionally they can add (example below)

Usually I hate dialogue pre-song but in this case it builds on the story (of "just another day").

Then you have the music start first to build anticipation (don't just start reciting like you're at a coffee shop trying to make sure people paying attention, by the time the intro comes off they should already be drawn in).

I'm not a song writer so I can't speak from experience whether the music or lyrics come first, probably depends , maybe lyrics first and there's a snatch of music in one's head, maybe even some imagery for a later video, dunno but I don't see I know fire when I see it and smell it and this isn't even warm... All subjective, one man's contagious virus is goes in and out of another without reaction.

To me top shelf music is when a 2yo can dance to it and two teenagers can analyze it's lyrics for an hour. If you don't have both you can't say it's classic.

Like a TV show or movie scene, perhaps knowing some backstory and all that could help w appreciation but it should also stand on its own to a naive viewer.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Rap is music. If you just want to write

Rap is poetry and doesn't (fundamentally) involve writing (as any worthwhile poetry doesn't).

 

[Narz]

Rap is poetry and doesn't (fundamentally) involve writing (as any worthwhile poetry doesn't).

Assuming you meant music not writing.

Even singing acapella you need to actually sing (make your voice musical). True some rappers have less melody to their voice but even Gurus's (gangstar) self proclaimed "monotone style" is not the same as his speaking voice.

Rap is not just talk any more than any other music.

A song is poetry+

 

[Gori the Grey]

Assuming incorrectly. I said what I meant to say. Any worthwhile poetry* is composed orally and only, incidentally, written down.

Few rappers sing. They talk. They talk in a way that emphasizes the beat, but it's talk.

Poetry is not just talk. Since you can have raps without any musical accompaniment (other than the beat, but it's the words that produce that), it's the lyrical dimension that predominates. It's fundamentally a form of poetry and only secondarily a form of music.

Poetry is talk+ Rap is just that.

Don't make me rap-battle you on this point, Narz.

*verse, I suppose I should be saying.

 

[Narz]

I disagree it's just talk, that takes away the art of spitting lyrics to say.

Imo there's as much variety of oration in rap as any other genre.

Actually this is one of the problems with rap's transition from a niche to pop (IIRC it's now the #1 genre in the US) is the idea that anyone who can write a few lines can deliver them.

If anything because the music is less complex (usually) than say a rock ballad ones vocal delivery is more important not less.

 

[Gori the Grey]

May all be true. Still not singing.

Spitting's not singing. Oration's not singing. Vocal delivery's not singing.

Those are ways of describing the speaking voice. Stylized (because of the prominence given to the beat). But not musical.

Go back and listen to your Xzibit video. He's not singing. He's speaking with a forceful emphasis on each stressed syllable. It sounds cool because he's arranged for the stressed syllables to fall in a rhythmic sequence. Then a musical beat (and minimal tune) was applied on top of that.

 

[Farm Boy]

There's nothing wrong with the church choir, even if they aren't going to trend on YouTube.

And yes, for those of us who wade through it, not particularly enjoying most of it, the sea of hip hop is deeper and deeper. Who is the country star at the moment? B? The top melts everything together. The gravy with the chunks is homemade. It's image that's true with your musical beatniks of the 21st, too!<fingersnaps>

 

[Narz]

May all be true. Still not singing.

Spitting's not singing. Oration's not singing. Vocal delivery's not singing.

Those are ways of describing the speaking voice. Stylized (because of the prominence given to the beat). But not musical.

Go back and listen to your Xzibit video. He's not singing. He's speaking with a forceful emphasis on each stressed syllable. It sounds cool because he's arranged for the stressed syllables to fall in a rhythmic sequence.

It's a style of lyrical deployment (aka singing).

It's new so culture hasn't accepted it as a form of singing but it is (imo maybe we should poll the audience)

Re : your earlier point if rap were all about lyrics only no one would know who lil John or Cisco (shake that, up on the floor) is or even Usher, I must've heard his songs 100s of times but who can remember what he said.

Hip-hop is like any music, it creates feeling, sometimes it's the music, sometimes the lyrics but usually both

 

[Gori the Grey]

Here's the music to What You See is What You Get:

Tell me how long even a two-year old could listen to that without getting bored.

All the value of the thing lies in the lyrics.

 

[Narz]

And yes, for those of us who wade through it, not particularly enjoying most of it, the sea of hip hop is deeper and deeper

It's pop now and one pop guy going after another (with the usual racism, homophobia and questioning his street cred) is just pop theater.

It won't change anything and it's unlikely he'll surpass Drake. I'll mostly remember him (Lamar) as being the worst lyricist on that asap rocky song

Actually I did like the way the one line rolled off his tounge at the end

"Halle Berry, hallelujah
Holla back, I'll do ya, beast"

But it also proves my point. As you can read, as poetry it's rubbish but his delivery makes it catchy (ie : he makes it into music)

 

[Narz]

Here's the music to What You See is What You Get:

Tell me how long even a two-year old could listen to that without getting bored.

All the value of the thing lies in the lyrics.

You don't like the music?

I couldn't find any YouTubes of kids dancing to xzibit... I may have to make one

 

[Farm Boy]

It'd be decent background to a visual novel, does it rise to video game background noise?

 

[Gori the Grey]

You don't like the music?

It grows tiresome quickly, is my point. On its own.

Did you listen to it through? Or just assume it must be good because you like the song?

Hit play. Force yourself to listen to it in its entirety and report back. Don't mentally superimpose the lyrics on it when you do so.

 

[Lexicus]

as poetry it's rubbish

There's hip-hop out there that's insane poetry though. Listen to the Black Star album for example. Some of my favorite lines in all of English literature.

the new moon rode high on the crown of the metropolis
shinin, like 'who on top of this?'
people was tusslin and arguin and bustlin
gangsters of Gotham, hardcore hustlin
I'm wrestlin with words and ideas my ears is pricked
seekin what will transmit
scribes can apply the transcript
(Ay y-y-y-y-yo Yo!)
this ain't no time where the usual is suitable
tonight alive let's describe the inscrutable

 

[Narz]

It grows tiresome quickly, is my point. On its own.

Did you listen to it through? Or just assume it must be good because you like the song?

Hit play. Force yourself to listen to it in its entirety and report back. Don't mentally superimpose the lyrics on it when you do so.

I like the combo. I wouldn't listen to just the music but I don't think most people would just listen to just the instrumentals of the Beatles either (altho some would)

And some people do listen to hip hop 'instrumentals'