Kerbal Space Program

[hobbsyoyo]

It is a game, not a cutscene.

It's a game, not a chore.

BTW, with the mod I posted, you don't have to let the computer do all the work. It also includes a docking target that makes docking much easier without having to let the computer do everything.

 

[warpus]

I agree with hobbs' philosophy.

KSP is such an open sandbox game with so many aspects to it, that sometimes you just want to spend your time with those other things, and not with a tedious part of it. A lot of us are quite busy people and don't have much time to devote to games, so when we get those 2-3 hours or whatever, we want some quality gaming time. If 2 of those 3 hours are going to be spent docking, and you don't quite enjoy that part of it, then.. was your gaming break a success?

And from the looks of it it doesn't really look that much like cheating. It just seems to automate some parts? That seems realistic.

If I'm not enjoying a game, I usually move on to something else. Games are supposed to be fun, right? Sure, parts aren't going to be, and there's always tedious parts, but if you can focus on another part of the game that you really enjoy, especially if it's a sandbox game, why not do it?

Having said that, I will probably dock normally, for my next mission that requires it. I've only docked once, ever, and that took forever, but I want to try it a couple more times. Eventually I'll probably want to focus on other things in the game though, such as landing on planets or whatever. That's why I use mechjeb to give me that nice parabolic curve when I launch - I can focus on everything else - and mechjeb will save me some fuel. win/win.

So that's my take on it.

Still wondering if anyone has any insights how to test your rovers on Kerbin, easily. I have ideas but they seem convoluted. I am not a very clever man though, so that could be the problem.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It can be as much cheating as you want it to be. You can set it to do everything (once you're within ~2km, which admittedly is half the challenge to begin with) or you can set it to do nothing more than draw a guide line for you and give you a docking camera to look through. Either way, manual docking is definitely not something that's really done irl anymore since the shuttle retired (and let's not overlook that the shuttle had computers in it and in mission control that did all the hard work except pulling throttle levers and pushing buttons - it's not hard to execute the docking sequence solution once the computers have figured it out for you).

As for testing your rovers on Kerbin - what I do is I start with whatever kind of capsule I'm going to eventually use to command the rover with. So for instance, for my Mun base II had an idea to send a 3 man lander with 2 attached rovers to it to the Mun. To test it, i made the lander and the rovers but not the rocket. Then I saved it under 2 file names, a 'test' file and a 'for realz' file. In the test file, I never attached a rocket to it. I just built the rovers and the capsule. Then I loaded them for launch. On the launch pad I would test out the deployment mechanisms for the rovers and then drive them around to make sure they worked. When it all worked, I would save it and then start adding the rocket underneath it and saving it under the 'for realz' file. This way, if something was drastically wrong with the rocket then I could revert to the 'test' file and start again. It also meant I could reload the test file and build a completely different kind of rocket and save it under another 'for realz' file in order to go to different planets and such.

Now if you plan on having a rover with no manned capsule, just build the rover based around whatever unmanned control pod you want. Make the rover itself the nerve center, so to speak, of the launch rocket as well as the payload. Just build the rover and the delivery platform (I usually mount the rover onto a small fuel tank with rockets and/or parachutes for descent that it can detach from on the surface) and then launch it. It will load on the pad and you can test it out without actually having to go anywhere. Then build a rocket under that under a different save file and voila, you have tested your rover on Kerbin.

I hope that's what you were actually asking for...I'm not sure.

Anyways, I test all my Mun rover designs this way as well as my Mun bases.


Oh and someone was complaining about campaign mode. Cry me a river dude. Sandbox is never going to go away so I don't see why you rail against it. Plus, some of us would actually like a real mission and objective to do now that we know the basics. It would be fun. Plus, the added benefit of a campaign mode is that a proper level designer will use the different levels to teach you techniques and abilities you might never figure out on your own or only after many miserable screwups. These techniques in turn will vastly improve your sandbox experience.

 

[LamaGT]

Why do my turbojets make the plane turn right? Everything is symmetrical
My awesome delta wing contraption resembling bat wings needs to be tested!

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I observed the same effect too. I know that in real life propeller planes tend to turn to a side but not turbojets. So i dont know. I found not solution and gave up about making planes.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

As far as I can tell, practically everything to do with spaceplanes is unrealistic and broken unless you have the patience of a savant to get everything just right when there is no certain way to figure out what is right other than brute force trial and error.

I gave up even trying with planes a long time ago, they are not fun.

The Buran rocket mod is freaking awesome though, I do recommend it. I haven't tried the Space Shuttle mod yet however. Oh and don't expect to land the Buran either, it flies like a brick nose-down with no ability to pull up so you crash and burn regardless. Still, it just looks cool and is fun for everything except landing.

 

[warpus]

I hope that's what you were actually asking for...I'm not sure.

I think so. I also think my question might have been a stupid one. I will see next time I play the game

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Ok well just let me know. There is a payload changeout mod that allows you to change the payload without changing the rocket itself out. I haven't used it yet though.

Hey, have you used the crew manifest mod? I couldn't get it to work even though I added the snippets of code to the various capsule parts.

 

[Luckymoose]

If you don't take the time to fly the ship, then what are you doing? The entire game is about flying the ship, plotting courses and having the risk of failure. If you just have mechjeb or other tools do it all for you... well, you aren't doing much of anything.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Thanks for telling me how to enjoy the game. I could have never figured that out on my own.

But for serious, since I have to repeat facts I have already posted:

1) I only just got mods a week ago and I haven't even used the autodock yet
2) I know how to dock and have done it multiple many times
3) I do not find docking fun
4) The autodock only works when you've flown within ~2km on your own
5) Why do you care how I play the game?
6) How does letting a computer do the docking take away from all the building, testing, flying, landing, probing and all the other things you can do in the game that for me are far more fun for me personally than messing with docking?
7) Off my back bro
8) Who said anything about mechjeb?
9) Who made you the arbiter of fun?

 

[GAGA Extrem]

If you don't take the time to fly the ship, then what are you doing? The entire game is about flying the ship, plotting courses and having the risk of failure. If you just have mechjeb or other tools do it all for you... well, you aren't doing much of anything.

Tbh, I am also on the side of the "if they want automation let em have it" crowd.
It's like fast travel in Skyrim: You can use it to speed things up, but you know will also skip a lot of awesome stuff alongside the road. Use it or don't, it is up to you and your current situation.

I spend several days last week to design a new interplanetary rocket with a docked lander on it, but the time it takes to launch and dock the two crafts seperately is just infuriating for me. In the end, I just built a BIGGER lifter and launched the two in one piece, as I had done before.

Yes, it is probably due to my own lack of skill, but I can't - for the love of god - handle those RCS controls. I remapped the keys and still my rocket will tumble out of control, because I have no effin indicator to tell me were the left side is right now... It took me 30 min to complete my first docking maneuver and I spend 3h after that without success on my refueling rocket...

In the same time I could have played my rover on Duna that is looking for the awesome chasms near the poles...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I spend several days last week to design a new interplanetary rocket with a docked lander on it, but the time it takes to launch and dock the two crafts seperately is just infuriating for me. In the end, I just built a BIGGER lifter and launched the two in one piece, as I had done before.

I wish I could still do this but my more ambitious projects are too large to launch in one go. Then again, they did remove the launch tower so I can build a much bigger rocket.

Yes, it is probably due to my own lack of skill, but I can't - for the love of god - handle those RCS controls. I remapped the keys and still my rocket will tumble out of control, because I have no effin indicator to tell me were the left side is right now... It took me 30 min to complete my first docking maneuver and I spend 3h after that without success on my refueling rocket...

Here's something that might help:
Set camera to chase, then arrange the view so that the camera is looking forward toward the front of the craft from a position directly behind. This will lock your camera and RCS controls to a standard 'up down left right' orientation. It will help some, but it will still be a pain in the butt trying to dock it

And as I've already said a couple of times, the docking mod doesn't have to be a total autodock. You can set it to just show a line between your two capsules (helps you line them up) and then gives a camera and a docking target to aid docking (which is a terrible omission at this point given how you absolutely have to have these things to manual dock in real life).

 

[warpus]

If you don't take the time to fly the ship, then what are you doing? The entire game is about flying the ship, plotting courses and having the risk of failure. If you just have mechjeb or other tools do it all for you... well, you aren't doing much of anything.

Sometimes you want to land, sometimes you want to dock, sometimes you want to get into orbit, sometimes you want to ...

A bit unfair to say that mechjeb does everything for you, when most people don't use it like that. I don't think..

 

[Thorgalaeg]

This must be the most silly discussion in history. Play the game the way you want. If you find going again and again through all the docking procedure then so be it. If you prefer accelerate docking and center in other things, so be it too. There is no a "right" way to play the game, the right way is the one which makes you enjoy it more.

 

[Luckymoose]

Well, there is a right way to play it. The mods are simply doing the right way for you. Honestly, docking is fast and easy, anyone that is too lazy to do what takes literally 5 minutes and provides a fun aspect of the game isn't playing the game correctly, IMO. What next? Using the mods to fly to other planets for you? Using them to land on those planets? Posting screenshots bragging about how epic you are for using a bot?

 

[cardgame]

That's my main beef with it. If you use MechJeb to land on the Mün, that's not you. That's not your achievement. What are you showcasing?

 

[Antilogic]

Don't worry guyz, the Dutch Game Police have arrived. Futurama nerd, you are going away for a longgg time for the heinous crime of playing a mod-able game how you want to play it. And you thought you could get away with it, ya sick son of a monkey's uncle. You inexorable and inexcusable crotch-stain on the underpants of humanity. Jesus tap-dancing Christ, I'm glad we got you off the streets and now you won't corrupt the kiddies with any more of your crazy notions of drug-addled aerospace infotainment.

Phew, glad we got that cleared up. Now back to KSP screenshots and mission challenges!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

God I'm such a tool to the mechanical man.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Coming back to the original topic, I have finally started the design progress on my new colony pods - this time with more wheels and less RCs - I'll make a big chu-chu train on mun!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's my main beef with it. If you use MechJeb to land on the Mün, that's not you. That's not your achievement. What are you showcasing?

And when the standard rocket parts don't prove powerful enough or don't give you easy access to features or abilities you want, you just download a new mod with lots of new OP parts and that's your achievement, right?

Seriously quit judging people, it's unbecoming and in this context, exceedingly stupid and usually hypocritical.