KhaNESII: S.P.Q.R

[theDright]

"Servius Arrius Celsus Aemilianus will speak."

Servius Arrius Celsus Aemilianus is a tall, green-eyed, black-haired man of 30-years of age.

"This session is my first as a Senator of Rome. We have many grave and potent issues facing our beloved Republic. I would like to tell you my stances on the major issues that are being discussed."

"First, the Gracchii reforms should NOT be reinstated. I am a landowner myself, and I can tell you that the farmland that I own, as well as the mines, would not be worked half-so-hard or be half-so-productive if it worked by pleb smallholders. I have NOT confiscated land; I have bought it. Pleb farmers that are forced into cities have many possible occupations for them, and their children have even more so. Those who clamor for the reinstatement of these 'reforms' are the proles, those who have no occupations. Such uselessness should not be encouraged by mandating the surrender of land from those who have bought it, to those who have never bought a new tunica."

"Second, the Grain Dole must be increased, but not to the point that it was before. The Grain Dole is for those who are in fiscal distress, the lowest plebs, and for those who would starve and die for lack of it, the proles. Feeding the people is not the point. Insuring that those who need to change their trade do not starve with their families is the point."

"Third, revoking the Triumphs of Sulla would be greatly beneficial. With no disrespect to those of my colleagues who supported the late dictator, the Triumphs were declared and held without proper ceremony and without the support of the Legions. Maintenance of this impiety by the Republic is without merit."

"Fourth, the Senate must deal with these Pannonian raids with haste and strength. Letting barbarians think they can steal and murder with ease will merely lead to more of it down the road. We think that at least 2 Legions are needed for this matter, one under a consul, to deal with this matter."

"I have not spoken to most of you, so on the matter of Legio praetors, Provincial propraetors or proconsuls, and other laws I have no current considerations. I, myself, would be willing to be a Legio praetor, preferably not on the Pannonian campaign, or as a propraetor or proconsul, in Hispania or Hellenia by preference."

"Thank you for your time. I have no current consular vote inclination, except for one that insures consular support for my policy proposals and for my personal involvement in the managing of the Legions or the Provinces."

 

[erez87]

I am a land owner as well. What is your solution to the landless jobless plebs who are plaguing our country, unhappy, and causing chaos? All since Sulla revoked the reforms.

In any case, if I am consul I will not force my opinion on the matter and will let the senate decide on the subject by vote.

 

[Seon]

I applaud the decision of the consul elect to entrust the Senate with such an important decision. Truly a decision of such calibre and such delicacy cannot be entrusted to just two men, no matter how capable they are.

 

[erez87]

I applaud the decision of the consul elect to entrust the Senate with such an important decision. Truly a decision of such calibre and such delicacy cannot be entrusted to just two men, no matter how capable they are.

Finally we find ourselves in agreement.

 

[talonschild]

Cassiodor

It is well known that I have not been the gravest man in Rome. Let it be known, however, that I am endeavouring to improve myself. For this reason I sought an appointment, for Anatolia is ripe with opportunities for me to learn and serve at once. I will, of course, bow in the only way a Roman ever ought - before the wishes of the Senate. If you feel me incapable of adequately governing an admittedly critical province of the Republic, perhaps I could be sent to Hellenia or Hispania. I am nothing if not agreeable.

I agree that perhaps the reinstitution of the Gracchi reforms may destabilize the Republic somewhat. I am for it still, simply on principle. If the plebians wish to farm, let them.

An invasion of Aegyptus seems to me unnecessarily dangerous. The Republic has other concerns at present, and I am unconvinced that Aegyptus is such a magical solution that would instantly alleviate all our worries.

I state my approval for and pledge my support to Tiberius.

On the subject of Anatolia, permit me a few additional thoughts: One man as Governor and one Legion uncommanded would serve as a sufficient deputation, I think. The Legion need only be commanded if and when Pontus (or one of the other myriad petty states) chooses to make a nuisance of itself.

 

[theDright]

"There are plenty of jobs to be had for those willing to find a new trade. Not all jobs can be intrusted to slaves."

"We are glad that Senator Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius would defer such a decision to the Senate should he be elected Consul."

 

[erez87]

OOC Important question
Is someone with 0 management going to make 0 money from a province for himself and the empire?

 

[talonschild]

OOC: I believe GK mentioned that there would still (somehow) be income. Else those with management skill would run away with the game.

 

[theDright]

OOC: I just noticed that there are no rules on navies. Why not?

 

[Grandkhan]

@erez and Talonschild: people with 0 Management still get an income, but there's no multiplier. You get a 1.5 multiplier for having 1 management, and it starts going up from there.

@theDright: Because I had no idea how to implement Senator's having navies. Its silly, thinking about it, and I might include something later if sea-combat becomes a thing. Generally, if you want to go somewhere by sea you go 'Travel to x' and boats magically appear for you (think of it as chartering a place aboard a ship).

 

[erez87]

So a 5 value place make 2-3 eco for someone without management?

 

[Grandkhan]

No, a 5 value place makes 5 funds (for the Republic and yourself each) for someone without management. As in, the multiplier for 0 Management is 1.

1 Management makes you 7 funds, and 2 makes you 10. From there the multiplier is just Management score.

 

[erez87]

No, a 5 value place makes 5 funds (for the Republic and yourself each) for someone without management. As in, the multiplier for 0 Management is 1.

1 Management makes you 7 funds, and 2 makes you 10. From there the multiplier is just Management score.

Front page says divide by 2...

 

[Grandkhan]

Gah, I thought I had fixed that up. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, that was before I introduced buildings.

 

[Nintz]

--- Cassius Flavius Livius ---

I apologize for my lateness Senators, but I must say that the speed at which this council works is highly surprising to me. I have been briefed on the current issues, so I will cut right to the point.

First, the Gracchii reforms. I am told this is one of the most hotly contested subjects, and for good reason. Limiting the wealth of the rich in order to raise the poor. I am neutral on this particular subject. I believe that the poor plebeians need more opportunity, but I do not feel that limiting the rich is the best way to achieve that. If forced to take a stance, I would support these reforms, but just barley, and I would prefer if we could create a new system altogether.

Second is the Grain Dole. I am a soldier by trade. I am traveled to many lands, many countries, I have seen both good and bad. I have seen peasants die of hunger and disease far too often for my liking. I feel I can say that we must increase the Grain Dole at least to the previous levels. We must support the plebs, as they live and thrive, so does their nation. They are uneducated and poor decision makers, but they are the lifeblood of a country. However, we must put numerous stipulations upon what makes one eligible for such a subsidy. We cannot allow the plebs to simply not work, and live off the toil of others. I would personally suggest a limit of five months of every two years for each pleb, albeit with a more generous Dole. If, after this time, they are unable to find a true job or trade, they ought to just join the army or government for the glory of Rome.

Third was the Triumphs of Sulla. He was my mentor; I is protege. Even I cannot in good conscious allow him to retain such an honor. He was a great man, yet suffered from power induced insanity of his doing. Such decisions cannot be allowed to stand.

The Pannonian raids are troublesome. I would argue that not one, but two legions ought to be sent to not only end the raid, but conquer Pannonia outright for this outrage. If we allow the sparrow to steal from the eagle, are we still an eagle, or just a pigeon?

I personally am a commander, and seek a generalship. I will accept any honor that the Senate sees fit to give me, of course, but let it be known that I will not vote for any who see fit to not grant the loyal and talented generals some form of command that they may better serve Rome.

For now, I tentatively endorse Tiberius as consul to Rome, though that is apt to change should another way me with his words.

 

[SamSniped]

Viator, your proposed solutions seems like nothing but a reiteration of the Gracchi reforms. Or did you have someone else to take the land from besides the landowners?

Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius

I would like to ask both Iustus Bruscius and Marcus Aurelius Viator how do they suggest the plebeians should be fed? From what I gather for now is that Viator believes the Republic should feed the poor rather than allow them to feed themselves, and Iustus it would seem would like to increase the plantations, create more poor and than force the Republic to feed them as well. It does not matter how cheap the bread is if those people have no salary to buy it with.

Also I claim that reinstatement of the Gracchi Reforms will not harm the economy greatly, and any harm done will soon be undone by the growth of the Plebeians. For now they grow poor and hungry, and poor and hungry plebeians are not a stabilizing factor of the empire.

I again call for either the creation of a new law that will handle the poor Plebians without land or profession or that reinstatement of the Gracchi Reforms, albeit at a smaller scale to allow for large plantations but not on the shoulders of the people.

As I have noticed, I also did not say that I will, obviously, cancel Sulla's Triumphs.

I needed time to think on this topic, and I think that I have found the solution to the Gracchii Reforms AND the Pannonian raids. Once we conquer the Pannonians, or any enemy for that matter, why not allow our plebeians to settle and farm some of the land for us? That would result in land for plebeians, patricians, and the Republic, provide a cause for many plebeians to find work, and thereby not require a large Grain Dole increase.

-snip-

-snip-

Servius et Cassius, sententias idem habemus; cur me non censitis?

Spoiler TRANSLATION :

Servius, we share the same opinions; why do you not vote for me?

OOC: 24 hours later, 4 pages of stuff added. Good job, guys!
Also, I would appreciate it if people read my Latin, if even just the translations. Especially if you are mentioned.
Oh, and a helpful website I use to check if I have the right words- http://www.archives.nd.edu/words.html

 

[theDright]

"I, Servius Arrius Celsus Aemilianus, vote for Marcus Argetius Viator to serve as Consul of Rome."

 

[SamSniped]

Ago tibi maximas gratias, vir optime.
(Practically means, Thank you very much, sir)

 

[Grandkhan]

A reminder, I'm not going to start votes for another ~8 hours.

So don't bother voting until then, I will expect you guys to vote again if you have voted previously because I won't be counting votes before the voting starts.

 

[SamSniped]

OOC: Well then