Khatami promises ”hell” to any aggressor

[Masquerouge]

I don't even think eastern European countries would help. Poland seems to have been quite disappointed with Iraq.

Yeah, time for us French to show we're not cheese-eating-surrendering monkeys and KICK THE IRANIANS' BUTT !

Or not.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

He will give the invaders hell. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If we invade they will flee before the treads of our tanks or be ground into hamburger. WE will be the ones to give those Ignorant...erm Arrogant Iranians Hell. Also, if they couldn't give it to the Iraqi's in their war against them (I forget how long that war was but it was long) then how on earth do they plan on giving it to us?

As said by Darth Maul in the game Star Wars Episode 1: Battle for Naboo:

"Wipe them out...All of them"

 

[IglooDame]

He will give the invaders hell. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If we invade they will flee before the treads of our tanks or be ground into hamburger. WE will be the ones to give those Ignorant...erm Arrogant Iranians Hell. Also, if they couldn't give it to the Iraqi's in their war against them (I forget how long that war was but it was long) then how on earth do they plan on giving it to us?

As said by Darth Maul in the game Star Wars Episode 1: Battle for Naboo:

"Wipe them out...All of them"

Refresh my memory, are Iraqis still fleeing before the treads of our tanks right now, or are they fleeing because the car-bomb is about to go off nearby?

 

[BasketCase]

Those few Iraqis who are fighting back are hiding in civilian areas in order to avoid the tanks.

Iran is incapable of giving the U.S. hell. Maybe 15 minutes in a warm room, plus a few obnoxious "Mother of all Battles" speeches--that's about it.

 

[Ohwell]

I hate this thread. All I see is 'my country's peen is bigger than urs' and 'my daddy can beat up both of your dads'.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Those few Iraqis who are fighting back are hiding in civilian areas in order to avoid the tanks.

Iran is incapable of giving the U.S. hell. Maybe 15 minutes in a warm room, plus a few obnoxious "Mother of all Battles" speeches--that's about it.

Oh my god, you seriously believe that? I do not know what to say to such idiocy. Have you not picked up a newspaper over the past two years?
Moderator Action: Flaming - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[BasketCase]

Every day for all 730 of them, and it bears my opinion out. Iran's military sucks compared to Iraq's. In fact, 15 minutes in a warm room was too much credit--Iran wouldn't last that long.

 

[Akhhorus]

Well they have Chem.Bio & Nuke weapons; a modern Air force and an army of 10 million(including militia). And they fight for a religous fervor and not out of fear like Iraq. Also, Iran is 3 times as big as Iraq. Should be a breeze(sarcasm)

 

[Birdjaguar]

Every day for all 730 of them, and it bears my opinion out. Iran's military sucks compared to Iraq's. In fact, 15 minutes in a warm room was too much credit--Iran wouldn't last that long.

The only way we can win in Iran is....carpet bombing them until no one is left. That will teach 'em. And they'll be no casualties! Well, no American casualties anyway.

 

[Alvaro da Luna]

It is naive of me to assume any sort of high strategic, military or political understanding. Nonetheless, I don't think we can take lightly Iran's potential for resistance against an American invasion. As someone above mentioned, Iran is 3 times the size Iraq, and with a population not entirely unsupportive of the current regime. The majority do despise the US, and not unjustly either given America's historically immoral involvement with the Shah of Iran, not to mention the long Iranian history of marginalization by the west in general (i.e. concessions to British Empire etc.). So it's not simply a matter of religious propaganda that their society is unappreciative of the west, there are legitimate rational reasons (that would make sense to any of us) as to why they would resist western reoccupation of their country. Thus, to maintain order and garner sympathy with the people is not a simple matter of cutting off the head of the religious leadership, as say, is normally assumed of post-war occupation of dictatorships. That too is of course a broad assumption, but in Iran, it bears even less logic.

Recent Iranian history has also shown us that in the face of threats, different social factions tend to work together, rather than split. During the Iraqi invasion, moderates as well as fundamentalists combined their forces to drive the Iraqi forces from their country. Moreover, the Iranian revolutionaries showed remarkable ingenuity in successfully utilizing the modern American weaponry - not just guns, but tanks and even a modern airforce - of the Shah's captured arsenal to combat a slightly less modern Iraqi army.

Given America's recent trouble and failing to pacify Iraq, not to mention the overstreching of its resources, and facing a zealous, capable warrior spirit, I wouldn't compare an Invasion of Iran to a walk in the park - as some of you have so crudely suggested.

 

[Alvaro da Luna]

Those few Iraqis who are fighting back are hiding in civilian areas in order to avoid the tanks.

Do you misunderstand the nature of warfare? The Iraqis are outmaneuvering the tanks with the best possible transparent shield. They can cause confusion and slip into the general population, confuse the hell out of the tank commander. That isn't a sign of weakness, more a sign of tactical ingenuity. In fact, I'd say that the tank driver is the one on the loosing edge. Of course, the Iraqi insurgency isn't large enough (or large enough yet) to cause problems akin to the Vietnam war, but I fear for the worst, that it soon may be.

 

[BasketCase]

You will note, from the fact that Iraq now has elections, that the insurgency is failing at this.

 

[Uiler]

Here is an important fact. Khatami is a MODERATE and REFORMER who often clashes with the clerical hardliners in Iran.

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9705/22/iran.elex/

Khatami, a former culture minister and candidate of a center-left coalition, is popular among young people, who hope he will bring a more relaxed interpretation of Islam to the job.

On university campuses and around the country, Khatami supporters use a word Western ears don't expect to hear in Iran -- freedom. "Individual freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, freedom of belief," says a woman student in Tehran.
Khatami

Another student says he'll vote for Khatami "because he knows what constitutional law says."

Khatami appeals across a broad spectrum to those yearning for social and economic justice.

In many villages the poor say they'll vote for him.

Khatami's support also extends to intellectuals, women and even many of Iran's more affluent citizens who usually boycott elections. "It's the first time I feel it's my duty to vote," one upscale Tehran woman told CNN.

Khatami is the sort of guy that is spearheading the transition of Iran from theocracy to democracy. He represents the young liberal constuiency in Iran.

Previously many people warned that US threats to Iran would only drive the reformers and moderates towards the arms of the hardliners as they banded together to defend themselves against the US. I guess this is what we are seeing in action today. The pro-democracy, pro-reform sections in Iran are now joined with the hardline clerical rulers in attempt to ward off what they see as a good chance of a US invasion.

Bravo US! I see attempts to encourage democracy and reform in Iran by military threat is succeeding admirably.

 

[Uiler]

Previous speech by Khatami where he calls for a "dialogue among civilizations" in order to gradually introduce global culture and democratic reforms to Islamic nations:

http://www.unesco.org/dialogue2001/en/khatami.htm

As I said - bravo US. You have managed to drive the reformers into the arms of the hardliners. Bravo! Bravo!

 

[Uiler]

Previous interview praising America:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9801/07/iran/interview.html

The American civilization is worthy of respect. When we appreciate the roots of this civilization, its significance becomes even more apparent. As you know, in Plymouth, Massachusetts, there is a rock which is respected and revered by all Americans. The secret of American civilization lies in this rock. In early 17th century, those 125 men, women, and children who left England in search of a virgin land to establish a superior civilization finally landed on this rock. The reason why the American people respect this rock is that it was the place where the Puritan pilgrims first landed. From then on, the Americans celebrate the last Thursday of November as Thanksgiving Day, thanking God for this success bestowed upon them.

The American civilization is founded upon the vision, thinking, and manners of the Puritans. Certainly, others such as adventurers, those searching for gold, and even sea pirates, also arrived in the U.S. But the American nation has never celebrated their arrival and never considered it to be the beginning of their civilization. The Puritans constituted a religious sect whose vision and characteristics, in addition to worshipping God, was in harmony with republicanism, democracy, and freedom. They found the European climate too restrictive for the implementation of their ideas and thoughts.

Unfortunately, in the 16th, 17th, and even 18th centuries, there was a serious clash between religion and liberty. In my opinion, one of the biggest tragedies in human history is this confrontation between religion and liberty which is to the detriment of religion, liberty, and the human beings who deserve to have both. The Puritans desired a system which combined the worship of God and human dignity and freedom.

This civilization was founded in New England and gradually spread to the entire America and it even clashed with certain evil trends which has caused slavery in certain states and ultimately succeeded in abolishing slavery. There were numerous martyrs who gave their lives for this cause, the most famous of which was Abraham Lincoln, the strong and fair-minded American president.

This civilization is best described by the renowned French sociologist Alexi de Toqueville who spent some two years in the U.S. in the 19th century and wrote the valuable book entitled Democracy in America, which I am sure most Americans have read. This book reflects the virtuous and human side of this civilization. In his view, the significance of this civilization is in the fact that liberty found religion as a cradle for its growth, and religion found protection of liberty as its divine calling. Therefore, liberty and faith never clashed. And as we see, even today Americans are a religious people. Therefore, the Anglo-American approach to religion relies on the principle that religion and liberty are consistent and compatible. I believe that if humanity is looking for happiness, it should combine religious spirituality with the virtues of liberty.

And it is for this reason that I say I respect the American nation because of their great civilization. This respect is due to two reasons: the essence and pillars of the Anglo-American civilization and the dialogue among the civilizations.

You are cognizant of the great heritage of the Iranian nation with its glorious civilization and culture. Irans glorious civilization was concurrent with the Greek city states and the Roman Empire. After the advent of Islam, the Iranians ardently embraced it. The blend of Iranian talents and the sublime Islamic teachings was a miracle. Without intending to deny the share of other nations in the formation of the Islamic civilization, I believe the great Iranian civilization had a major role in developing and promoting the Islamic system.

Over the past two centuries, the Iranian nation has striven to establish liberty, independence and a noble way of life. The Constitutional Movement colonialism. Ultimately, the Islamic Revolution had-and should have-two directions: First, an interpretation of religion which couples religiosity with liberty. Of course, now that four centuries have passed since the beginning of the American civilization, human experience has taught us that prosperous life should hinge on three pillars: religiosity, liberty, and justice. These are the assets and aspirations of the Islamic Revolution as it enters the 21st century.

In terms of the dialogue of civilizations, we intend to benefit from the achievements and experiences of all civilizations, Western and non-Western, and to hold dialogue with them. The closer the pillars and essences of these two civilizations are, the easier the dialogue would become. With our revolution, we are experiencing a new phase of reconstruction of civilization. We feel that what we seek is what the founders of the American civilization were also pursuing four centuries ago. This is why we sense an intellectual affinity with the essence of the American civilization.

Second, there is the issue of the independence. The American nation was the harbinger of independence struggles, the initiator of efforts to establish independence, for whose cause it has offered many sacrifices, leading ultimately to the Declaration of Independence which is an important document on human dignity and rights.

 

[Uiler]

One big difference between Iran and Iraq is while Iraq is split up into different ethnic groups, most of which had a vested interest in the US invading, Iran is much more homogeneous. That is while in Iraq the US has been able to play one side against the other, in Iran this will not be the case. Sure they reformers and hardliners dislike each other but this is like how Democrats and Republicans dislike each other. Only an idiot would say that if someone tried to invade the US the Democrats and Republicans wouldn't put aside their differences and band together to fight the invaders. In Iraq, the US is only facing an insurgency from 20% of the population and you can already see the difficulties it is having. The population of Iran is much greater than Iraq and if the US invaded, it will be facing a *united* Iranian front. There will be no divide and conquer in Iran. Khatami's speech is basically showing this in action. The reformers and moderates in Iranian politics have decided to throw in their lot with the hardliners in the case of an American invasion. It's one thing to snipe and bicker amongst yourselves. It's another thing to stand back and support your people being bombed and your country being invaded. Most countries have a specific word for the later case - and that word is "traitor" and no-one wants to be seen as a traitor. In Iraq there seems to be a stronger identification with being Shia, Sunni or Kurd than being Iraqi. In Iran the US does not have this advantage. Practically everyone in Iran is a "Persian".

 

[Jawz II]

Every day for all 730 of them, and it bears my opinion out. Iran's military sucks compared to Iraq's. In fact, 15 minutes in a warm room was too much credit--Iran wouldn't last that long.

now, i assume youre not talking about the insurgency that follows after the open war bit, cause that will make iraq look like a picknick

in the open war phase, irans military managed to halt iraqis advance in the 80s war, then there was stalemate awhile, and then in the lst part of it they pushed them back and were defenitly on the offensive (the reason saddam used illegal chemichal weapons)

and they were up against saddams pre desert storm army, at the time i think the 3rd or 4th largest military force in the world, and they had lots of american, russian and french hardware

that army took the us airforce 2 months to defeat as opposed to the 2 weeks it took in the latest iraq war


eventually us would win, even if the casaulties would be higher than in iraq

however the insurgency is gonna make iraq look easy

i say iran + draft (in america) =10 years of bloody conflict followed by american withdrawal
otherwise its not even gonna last a year, iraq costs 175 million dollars a day

iran would cost double that at least, or maybe even 3-4 times

 

[CurtSibling]

Every day for all 730 of them, and it bears my opinion out. Iran's military sucks compared to Iraq's. In fact, 15 minutes in a warm room was too much credit--Iran wouldn't last that long.

Well, they somehow managed to keep US-armed and funded Iraq
busy for years...in a bloody stalemate that cost one million lives.

And oddly the Iranians had F-14s too - Now how did they get those exclusively US planes?

It makes you wonder!

Of course, you would not remember the fun of the early 1980's...

 

[carlosMM]

Iran's President Mohammad Khatami Thursday warned that Iran would unleash hell if attacked. "If, God forbids, any aggressor puts its foot on this land, Iran will turn into a burning hell for them," he told thousands of demonstrators who had gathered at a famous square to mark the 26th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution.

"The Iranian nation is not after a war, violence or clashes, but the world must know that the Iranians will not tolerate any invasion," Khatami said, to the chants of 'Death to America' and Death to 'Israel'.

Go, Khatami, go!


Your country got a serious f-ing over once by the US already, no need to stick your backside up for another!

 

[BasketCase]

Well, they somehow managed to keep US-armed and funded Iraq
busy for years...in a bloody stalemate that cost one million lives.

Precisely. Iraq and Iran got stalemated. At the time, Iraq's military was AFAIK the largest and most modern that could be found in the Middle East--and it got steamrollered by the U.S. in 1991. Iran will fare no better.