Pietato
Platonic Perfection
online speed
No.
online speed
Russia, from what I remember.Honestly most of the civ tweaks in the new patch is just a better version than the previous. Was there even one civ, who actually got nerfed instead of boosted?
in other words, you got lucky getting a religion (or you sunk your early game to rush it), and the Khmer abilities are letting you win harder.
I like the changes, just pointing out that they are a bit inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
Khmer were already pretty strong, not surprised they are S tier now.
Same. They were F tier and nigh useless prior.They were extremely bad except for one horrible missionary sacrificing way. I rated them dead last before this patch.
They should just make it like BNW (i.e. library gives 0.5 science per pop, etc.) where certain buildings have fixed yields and certain others give % bonuses based on pop. Such that for smaller cities certain buildings are not worth their maintenance cost. You want to lose 2 gpt and a bunch of production for a measly 1 science per turn in that pop 2 coastal city, etc.?Through a few eras of so of my game and I agree with most here. Not only are they strong, but (more importantly) super fun. Everything works so well together.
I wonder if there are some lessons here beyond Khmer. Tall vs. wide argument is stale and not really the actual argument, but what if there were more +something per population for buildings in more generic districts? It could incentivize growing cities while still encouraging more cities as well. The food for farms next to aqueducts makes some sense as a general trait too to make it all work (or something like granary/mill rework).
Through a few eras of so of my game and I agree with most here. Not only are they strong, but (more importantly) super fun. Everything works so well together.
I wonder if there are some lessons here beyond Khmer. Tall vs. wide argument is stale and not really the actual argument, but what if there were more +something per population for buildings in more generic districts? It could incentivize growing cities while still encouraging more cities as well. The food for farms next to aqueducts makes some sense as a general trait too to make it all work (or something like granary/mill rework).
Whenever anyone says "<civ> is OP", I read it as "<civ> is fun to play". I never played Khmer before, so I gave them a try, and yes, it was fun (with Voidsingers, too). Shame about the leader - shades of the old joke, "I have the body of a GOD! - Unfortunately it's Buddha". (Yes, I know Buddha is not a god).
I’m kind of the opposite. I find S-Tier Civs make the game too easy. Once they start to snowball past Classical it’s just not that fun for me since the challenge is ultimately diminished. Can you still lose? Yes, but the super strong ones make that pretty unlikely. A few of the buffs from this patch went overboard for me a bit, Khmer especially (Canada’s +2 food instead of +1 as well). While I like the direction they took with the Khmer, I was ahead in Science without building a single Campus. That’s just ridiculously strong IMO and I got bored. I prefer the slight buffs (Netherlands, etc.), nerfs (Russia, etc.) or redesigns that make them more complex but leave in some of their old weaknesses (Spain, Mapuche, etc.) than bringing a Civ to S+++Tier. Just my opinion.
The challenge is what draws we toward the “weaker” Civs as long as they at least have some complexity to them and a slight boost towards a victory type to make it fun. Is it hard? Oh yeah. Going for a Science victory with Georgia or a Domination victory with Poland makes you want to rip your hair out sometimes, but I enjoy it and finding winning strategies with their abilities more than breezing through the game. Khmer was just build a few things and win.
Like I said, just my opinion.
Yeah, I think they made them a little too strong, which makes them a little less fun. At least for the Khmer, they're not like dominant from turn 1, so there is some risk there. But once they get rolling, they just pull in so much faith.
I think that if they think they're too powerful, the answer is to boost the generic growth rates as a better way to go. Building more districts is fun; and gives a bigger choice between growth and expansion, and might make amenities more competitiveI've played two games with Khmer and they are indeed powerful. The first game resulted in my second fastest culture win followed by my fastest post GS science win. The ROI on river holy sites is just amazing - big faith gen, food, housing, amenities, production (from work ethic). Expansion is a breeze, infrastructure gets online faster due to high pop and high production. It's a beautiful thing. They out-Germany Germany with their holy sites providing a great production boost at a lower opportunity cost since there's no need for IZs and Comm Hubs and Dams and all that. Better returns from the aqueducts with the amenity and mass faith. And their ability to quickly get to the next district threshold is a better version of Free Imperial Cities. Engineers can be easily bought with faith.
Khmer are a fun option when I want to play a powerful Civ. I think Firaxis should let it ride....Jay-V deserves to have his moment in the sun after years of being bottom tier. There are plenty of mediocre Civs to choose when one wishes to have a more challenging game.
And make Wonders more deliberate. I often end up with cities with nothing to do, so I end up getting them to build Wonders just to keep them busy.I think that if they think they're too powerful, the answer is to boost the generic growth rates is a better way to go. Building more districts is fun; and gives a bigger choice between growth and expansion, and might make amenities more competitive