King of the World #11: Darius I

[Gooblah]

Cavs pwn grens, as well. Slider to 0 until all units are upgraded. It should only take a few turns.

The tech choices are difficult. Logistics screams for RR, economy screams for communism. What to do? OTOH, I'm not sure why Rolo is so upset about your not having RR -- after all, you just finished rifling, which is arguably a lot more important ATM than RR. But whatever you do, I don't think it will come in time to help during this war.

Great job with China, though.

Railroads are necessary to get units from the east (where the war is nearly done) to the west (where the war is just beginning). Considering that the western enemy is going to...um...dominate Neal due to the lack of heavy garrisoning (I cracked open the save. No Castles. Unpromoted soldiers. How in hell does not promoting soldiers HELP?!).

 

[Gagonite]

Not promoting soldiers allows Neal to heal them after a hard battle. Its best on the offense though, on the defense, not only do you want as much of a chance as possible, but units heal faster in cities anyways. Especially once you get a hospital up and running.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'll awnser why I'm worried about lack of railroads:

Besides what Gooblah says ( I shadow all his concerns, except the castles... Rome will probaly have cannons soon anyway ), Neal has a long story of fighting with too few units and with too deficient supply lines ( and this comes from a long time ago: just read Frederick KoTW, that was utterly abandoned because neal wasn't able to put enough troops in the front to survive the gunship counterstrikes of Persia ). He needs to be reminded of that from time to time

The persian Russia will be hard to hold ( like I said, I pretty much expect Neal to lose moscow and even the Indians can do a lot of damage in India because of the meager garrisons left behind) because neal is simply outnumbered and the quality of the garrisons is also.... underacheiving ( Rome has some pretty nasty C3 cuiraseers in the area ). The Chinese have a sizable medieval stack behind the enemy lines as well, that can cause some problems because of the same issue ( 1, 2 lbows in garrison .... ).

My main issue is that Neal knew that a war with Rome was pretty much sealed in the moment he paid Rome to stop fighting with the Chinese, but acted like he didn't knew that.

 

[Harv]

Has anyone built Versialles yet? That should help with the decision on where to build the FP.

Regarding Versailles - It just dawns on me: The point of Versailles is not to build it, but to have somebody else build it and you take it over. However, for an empire like what Neal has, it would be useful. The next problem is that since he is at war, he should be building troops instead of wonders.

Regarding Railroads - Railroads win wars, both historically and in Civilization. I miss the old days of Civ2 where RR meant unlimited movement and you could use Engineers to build right up to the enemy capital and blow it away.

 

[huerfanista]

I'll awnser why I'm worried about lack of railroads:

OK, I'm all ears.

Besides what Gooblah says ( I shadow all his concerns, except the castles... Rome will probaly have cannons soon anyway ), Neal has a long story of fighting with too few units and with too deficient supply lines ( and this comes from a long time ago: just read Frederick KoTW, that was utterly abandoned because neal wasn't able to put enough troops in the front to survive the gunship counterstrikes of Persia ). He needs to be reminded of that from time to time

The persian Russia will be hard to hold ( like I said, I pretty much expect Neal to lose moscow and even the Indians can do a lot of damage in India because of the meager garrisons left behind) because neal is simply outnumbered and the quality of the garrisons is also.... underacheiving ( Rome has some pretty nasty C3 cuiraseers in the area ). The Chinese have a sizable medieval stack behind the enemy lines as well, that can cause some problems because of the same issue ( 1, 2 lbows in garrison .... ).

My main issue is that Neal knew that a war with Rome was pretty much sealed in the moment he paid Rome to stop fighting with the Chinese, but acted like he didn't knew that.

And that is related to lack of railroads how? (OK, I get the "deficient supply lines" thing). I'm not anti-RR. In fact, when I play this scenario I always prioritize it AFTER rifling and MilTrad. My point was, do you think that after RepParts (required for both steam>RR and rifling) Neal should not have gone for rifling first? I think he'd be in a much worse position right now than he currently is. First off, he wouldn't even have steam yet (due to tech cost), in addition to not having rifles/cav. Now, levees are a nice prod boost for riverside cities, but they do take some time to build and give no immediate military benefit. So he'd be facing JC with cuirassiers/maces instead of rifles/cavs. I know which one I'd prefer. And he wouldn't even be starting on RR yet, since steam costs 33% more than rifling (3600 vs 4800 ).

And yes, I do agree that Neal is ... how do I put this? ... militarily challenged. I often jump to Mad's current RPC from this thread, just to see some real stacks in action.

 

[r_rolo1]

Just for the record, Versailles is already built . It was made by the Romans in Antium ( someone should REALLY teach the AI to do Versailles a little further away from the capital than 5 tiles in a bigger than Huge map )

 

[huerfanista]

@Harv

Regarding Versailles - It just dawns on me: The point of Versailles is not to build it, but to have somebody else build it and you take it over.

That's what I was suggesting. You don't seriously think I was suggesting he start building it, do you? I kind of doubt that he even has DR anyway.

Just for the record, Versailles is already built . It was made by the Romans in Antium ( someone should REALLY teach the AI to do Versailles a little further away from the capital than 5 tiles in a bigger than Huge map )

I guess that means the FP goes in Beijing.

 

[r_rolo1]

OK, I'm all ears.



And that is related to lack of railroads how? (OK, I get the "deficient supply lines" thing). I'm not anti-RR. In fact, when I play this scenario I always prioritize it AFTER rifling and MilTrad. My point was, do you think that after RepParts (required for both steam>RR and rifling) Neal should not have gone for rifling first? I think he'd be in a much worse position right now than he currently is. First off, he wouldn't even have steam yet (due to tech cost), in addition to not having rifles/cav. Now, levees are a nice prod boost for riverside cities, but they do take some time to build and give no immediate military benefit. So he'd be facing JC with cuirassiers/maces instead of rifles/cavs. I know which one I'd prefer. And he wouldn't even be starting on RR yet, since steam costs 33% more than rifling (3600 vs 4800 ).

And yes, I do agree that Neal is ... how do I put this? ... militarily challenged. I often jump to Mad's current RPC from this thread, just to see some real stacks in action.

It looks i forgot to insert a key sentence in the text

My point was not to say that neal should had teched RR instead of rifling ( in there i fully agree with you ). My point is that he queued Sci met ( communism trail ) when he has 2 wars being fought in oposide sides of the world.... that is utterly underperforming. Communism does not help win wars. Railroads and machine guns do

 

[huerfanista]

It looks i forgot to insert a key sentence in the text

My point was not to say that neal should had teched RR instead of rifling ( in there i fully agree with you ). My point is that he queued Sci met ( communism trail ) when he has 2 wars being fought in oposide sides of the world.... that is utterly underperforming. Communism does not help win wars. Railroads and machine guns do

@Rolo
Ah, yes, I had assumed that was just a placeholder, but now I see that he's actually put into it. Well, I often go for communism at this point in the game if I'm not at war. It is a huge boost to and with an empire this large. And he can get there a lot faster than he can to RR (7700 for RR plus 4800 for steam, vs 3300 remaining on SM plus 4700 for communism - 12500 vs 8000). OFC, he won't be doing much research in the short term with his slider set to 0 (hopefully - he needs to upgrade as much of his western army as possible ASAP). Given that neither tech path will have any effect on the immediate situation - nor will it for the likely duration of this war - I'd say that SM>comm is actually the stronger play (assuming he can hold off JC). $buy w/Kremlin and a FIN leader will be incredibly strong (OFC, he'd need the mids - which JC probably has - or demo - which is nowhere near), and he will get there considerably faster than he will to RRs and MGs.

 

[r_rolo1]

In there i disagree, huerfanista. This war will be long and bloody, and I would strongly advice neal to not end it until Rome is no longer a menace. The romans have local superiority in europe and you'll probably will have to regain a city or two when the chinese front army returns to give a hand, so this war will take atleast 50 turns and probably more, and i would not be surprised to see neal forced to retreat from Russia altogether in between. this will be 50 turns of probably non-stop military build, so no time for fancy wonders

 

[huerfanista]

OK, I opened the save (and, of course, I couldn't stop there ), and the situation is far from hopeless. Quite the opposite, in fact. And I really don't understand the complaints about Neal's Russian army. There's nothing a few turns at 0 slider won't fix, and he has quite a few units.

I played the game until 1385AD from Neal's last save:

Spoiler :

They say that a picture says a thousand words:

Awww, don't cry big guy. All I did was open a can of Persian Whoop-A$$ on you.

Power (another thousand words):

Tech path:

I started out by dropping the slider to 0 (duh!) for upgrades. I took peace with QSH for and Wonsan (helps with cultural pressure on Seoul). There's no point in keeping the army tied up in China, as QSH can be taken out whenever we want at this point. I started moving as many units as I could afford back to India, especially knights. Then I turned my attention to Rome.

The first threat was against Constantinople (or whatever Neal's calling it), where a decent stack of grens/cuirs was sent by JC. I promoted the cannons to barrage2, upgraded the knights to cav, and a mace to rifle. We collateralled him to death and wiped out that stack, losing 2 cannon.

Moscow then came under pressure, and in fact we lost it for about 4-5 turns at one point. But upgrading knights to cav, trebs to cannon, and getting as many reinforcements from the homeland and india, we were able to beat off his attach and wipe out that army.

He sent another stack to Constantinople, with the same result as before. We also took the indian city that's NE of Persepolis with a stack of cav/cannon/rifles from china. I took peace for a chunk of from JC. I think he can now be taken for good, once we get all of our units in place. I have a huge chunk of gold in the bank and am 9 turns from communism, which will really boost our economy. After we get RR, I plan to head to AL. JC is teching physics. The game is basically won at this point.

View attachment Xerxes AD-1385.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[r_rolo1]

Huerfanista, let me quote myself:

There are 3 cities that can be easily overrun in this IBT if you don't do anything

I agree that what you done is the way to go, though... what I was saying is that, if neal continued to do what he did in the last 10 turns ( that is, basically nothing in terms of reinforcing Europe besides 2 strongholds ), he would need to retreat ( this OFC imply a inteligent foe as well if those 2 gren stacks were fused, things would be pretty bleak ).

 

[Neal]

Whew! I am knee-deep in war right now. Things aren't exactly going swimmingly, but I'm not on the ropes, either. I hope to have things wrapped up and posted tonight.

 

[Jaaboo]

So when do we get to see Xerxes sending his uppity adviser to the salt mines?

I don't mean to offend you Rolo, but it is pretty funny to read you riding Neal like this. You're right on and giving good advice, but considering the tone and character Neal has been putting into the game, I'm waiting for Xerxes to snap and send the former royal advisor to the front lines with a mace and tell him, "Don't worry, old friend, I'll hit upgrade, next turn."

Can't wait for the next update, this has been a fun game to follow and shadow.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, Xerxes is only a king ... Persia is more important that it's king, so he must be contradicted if the good of the Empire is in danger

 

[gfm]

Well, Xerxes is only a king ... Persia is more important that it's king, so he must be contradicted if the good of the Empire is in danger

Blasphemy ! Xerxes is a man-god

But there's this thing about men-gods, you know. They... bleed

 

[Stewie0416]

Off-topic:
Great interview with Podcast Neal!

 

[Neal]

Whew! All right, I've played the next round. It's now 1470. Maybe I went a little too far, but things were on a roll, so I kept playing. It took me practically all day, though, and I'm exhausted. I'm gonna catch some zzz's and write things up in the morning. Get ready for a truly epic-length recap!

Oh, and re: Rolo- He's much better at this game than I am. When it all comes down to it, I'm really a casual player at heart. So sometimes I'm not paying attention and I make mistakes. And, honestly, my focus is more on being entertaining than playing the game the right way every time. The experts that chime in (like Rolo) add a lot to these games by pointing out what I did wrong and advising on the best course of action. So if you just want to be entertained, just follow the rounds. But if you want to look under the hood and see what should be done in the situations presented, pay attention to the discussion. It's insightful stuff (even if I'm no good at heeding it).

re: The Podcast- Thanks, Stewie. It was fun (even if I was a nervous wreck throughout).

 

[Jaaboo]

Yeah, rolo is like my tiny god of Civ, I just thought it amusing considering the voice you took during the narrative.

I can't wait to see the writeup of this next round. I presume JC rolled the dice high and came up craps?

 

[Neal]

Just a quick bump to get the round onto a new page...