r_rolo1
King of myself
^^The only option to space now would be a Panzer rush to the whole world....Do it at your own risk
King of the World #2: Frederick
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Hmph. As much as I'd like to wave my arms and scream that you all are wrong about the space race being our last resort, I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking. We bogged down way too much in the beginning, not even taking Rome until 525 B.C. We're now in the Infantry age and we only control 12% of the world's territory. Panzers will help, but not that much.
Diplomacy isn't of much use, either. We went with the Hindu bloc in the beginning, which ended up being a fragmented, bickering mob while the Jewish nations were a model of solidarity. Therefore, sucking up to one of our allies meant pissing off another. My opportunistic tech and resource trades likely only made things worse. Heck, my friendship with Asoka means that the Mongols and Chinese won't even speak to me. Right now, we've got Cyrus, India and our vassals among our circle of friends (and Roosevelt, but he's never been relevant, and I don't see him being around much longer). And Cyrus may well be our UN opponent, anyway.
Regarding culture, well, I don't really see that coming through, either. When the two cities you sent Great Artists to less than 150 years ago are two of your top three culture cities, you may as well cross that victory type off the list.
We are #2 in score, and I'm sure that one more good smashup might put us over the top, but I'd hate to pin all these hours playing and typing on a time victory.
No matter how we spin it, we're now in the 17th century. Time is running out. With our halfway decent research and our powerhouse production, I think we're down to Space and Time. Victory types, that is. So I leave it to the hive mind. Space race, obviously, involves turtling up and setting up protective garrisons. Time victory likely involves letting slip the dogs of war.
At the very least, this game has been one heck of a learning experience (and quite a wake-up call regarding my actual skill level at Civ IV). How would you like to see it end?
Diplomacy isn't of much use, either. We went with the Hindu bloc in the beginning, which ended up being a fragmented, bickering mob while the Jewish nations were a model of solidarity. Therefore, sucking up to one of our allies meant pissing off another. My opportunistic tech and resource trades likely only made things worse. Heck, my friendship with Asoka means that the Mongols and Chinese won't even speak to me. Right now, we've got Cyrus, India and our vassals among our circle of friends (and Roosevelt, but he's never been relevant, and I don't see him being around much longer). And Cyrus may well be our UN opponent, anyway.
Regarding culture, well, I don't really see that coming through, either. When the two cities you sent Great Artists to less than 150 years ago are two of your top three culture cities, you may as well cross that victory type off the list.
We are #2 in score, and I'm sure that one more good smashup might put us over the top, but I'd hate to pin all these hours playing and typing on a time victory.
No matter how we spin it, we're now in the 17th century. Time is running out. With our halfway decent research and our powerhouse production, I think we're down to Space and Time. Victory types, that is. So I leave it to the hive mind. Space race, obviously, involves turtling up and setting up protective garrisons. Time victory likely involves letting slip the dogs of war.
At the very least, this game has been one heck of a learning experience (and quite a wake-up call regarding my actual skill level at Civ IV). How would you like to see it end?
I think time victory should not be expected because by the end of the game, someone will reach space (Liz, Cyrus, Hatty?). You can probably manage space but you gotta start on it now since you're pretty far back in tech.. Build factories in at least 5 cities and make them into big productions centers. Meanwhile, beeline towards rocketry and then computers and make sure to build the Ironworks in one of the cities. Production is particularly important since no AI can match a human player in that as Obsolete demonstrated very well.
I vote "be a jerk" (to the other AIs).
Build units, invade, divide, conquer, fight. Destroy enemies, don't be shy about razing every other city, bribe AI to fight someone if you can. Gift obsolete units (if you have any left) to your vassals so they can upgrade them at discount.
Your goal will be how big % of land area you can get. And to learn/teach something about what may happen if you go all-out for military. (Mabye you can will as well - with a nice bomber force for siege and collateral panzers and infantry should be enough to kill anything.
Mass produce infantry now, keep teching towards panzers and bombers. And then unleash "ze german army".
Build units, invade, divide, conquer, fight. Destroy enemies, don't be shy about razing every other city, bribe AI to fight someone if you can. Gift obsolete units (if you have any left) to your vassals so they can upgrade them at discount.
Your goal will be how big % of land area you can get. And to learn/teach something about what may happen if you go all-out for military. (Mabye you can will as well - with a nice bomber force for siege and collateral panzers and infantry should be enough to kill anything.
Mass produce infantry now, keep teching towards panzers and bombers. And then unleash "ze german army".
tboner23
Chieftain
I just had an ironic historical thought...
It seems to me that Africa is very important for a German World Domination victory. Germany is too far from Asia, with pesky Russia in the way, to go east, and there simply isn't enough land in Europe to satisy the victory gods. A transatlantic invasion is just a logistical nightmare, even if they are so backwards they are going foreward.
To real history, Russia was in the way (and their cold winters) of Germany 60 years ago, and if Rommel beats Monty (Montgomery) with his Afrika Korps we might not invade Italy, and definitely not Normandy until who konws when. And perhaps by that time Russia ran out of people to throw at the Wehrmacht and the Ural oil fields are all Hitler's. Interesting...
So perhaps you should build yourself an Afrika Korps and go get rid of Caesar and start taking over the 'dark continent'
Course you are Frederick and not Adolf...
It seems to me that Africa is very important for a German World Domination victory. Germany is too far from Asia, with pesky Russia in the way, to go east, and there simply isn't enough land in Europe to satisy the victory gods. A transatlantic invasion is just a logistical nightmare, even if they are so backwards they are going foreward.
To real history, Russia was in the way (and their cold winters) of Germany 60 years ago, and if Rommel beats Monty (Montgomery) with his Afrika Korps we might not invade Italy, and definitely not Normandy until who konws when. And perhaps by that time Russia ran out of people to throw at the Wehrmacht and the Ural oil fields are all Hitler's. Interesting...
So perhaps you should build yourself an Afrika Korps and go get rid of Caesar and start taking over the 'dark continent'
Course you are Frederick and not Adolf...
don't give up on domination. I say domination or time victory, space be damned! Your just now getting close to your ace in the hole, panzers and Assembly plants. Your gonna have to take down some big dogs, like persia and egypt, but once you do this, i think you will get a lot of capitulations from smaller civs. don't waste time on taking extra cities if they will capitulate, (it counts toward domination.) and you haven't even got rails online yet. wars will move faster, but don't give up right at the dawn of the industrial era, roll up your sleeves and give it your best!!
ShunNakamura
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 246
I am not a great player by any stretch; however, I also would at least give your ace a chance.
Just keep in mind that you should be prepared to enact plan B(space race).
A game without an industrial war as the Germans just wouldn't feel right to me, so give it a go I say.
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
I think a time victory is very achievable - if you go for domination.
Domination on this map is almost impossible if you aren't on marathon speed, but if you crush each space-competing opponent down to 4 cities and vassalize them (sooner rather than later), they shouldn't be able to make space.
Of course, you'll be instructing them to research non-space techs, right?
I don't think domination is winnable, but Time via conquest certainly is. It will be a nice showing of how to prevent an enemy from winning the space race - sabotage, resource deprivation, and conquest.
Give it a shot - could be fun!
Domination on this map is almost impossible if you aren't on marathon speed, but if you crush each space-competing opponent down to 4 cities and vassalize them (sooner rather than later), they shouldn't be able to make space.
Of course, you'll be instructing them to research non-space techs, right?
I don't think domination is winnable, but Time via conquest certainly is. It will be a nice showing of how to prevent an enemy from winning the space race - sabotage, resource deprivation, and conquest.
Give it a shot - could be fun!
Sorry. I've been rather busy lately- able to check in here at work, but unable to play at home. I've squeezed in a couple of turns here and there, though. I finally traded for Scientific Method from Cathy... only to discover that Europe has no oil! It's gonna be kinda hard to build a tank corps without oil. However, the North African Republic of Rome has a nice little patch of it...
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Sorry about the delay.
In this round, we underwent an Industrial Revolution, securing oil and building factories, as well as plucking an old thorn.
We started by cutting a deal with our Indian friends:
Mostly for the cash. Our Grenadiers need to trade in their sabers for something a bit more modern.
Around 1630, I finally accepted that the Great Library was not going to last forever:
Now, then... Oil, oil, oil. We have no oil! Louis has a patch, as does Catherine, but that's not of much use to us now. Should have killed them off when I had the chance. It took only a little bit of looking to find what we were looking for:
Dee-lightful. I'd been looking for an excuse to wipe the purple scourge from the map, anyway. And as you can see from the selected units screen, I have just the force to take it with.
Around this time, Roosevelt and Monty launched into a full-fledged Total War, we spawned a Great Scientist in Berlin (he founded an Academy in Paris), and Asoka became a vassal of Cyrus. Why doesn't anyone ever peacably submit to my rule? I don't use the whip... often.
With two turns left on Railroads, we did a bit of tech brokering. May as well do it while we still can:
This brought Mansa to Pleased, which made me happy.
With Railroads done, I had a difficult decision to make:
I veered off the Industrialism beeline for a coupl of reasons: a) my happy cap was well above most of my populations, b) Health was beginning to be a problem (Starvation was fairly rampant), and c) I was running Representation. More food=more specialists.
With the massive German Navy (consisting of two Galleons and two Frigates) loaded down with troops, it was time to seize what was rightfully ours:
We were only ferrying troops across a one-space gap, so the dearth of transports was a minor inconvenience rather than a deal-breaker.
We weren't exactly facing the state-of-the-art either:
Around this time we agreed to "help" Roosevelt in his war against the Aztecs and were bullied into gifting Hatshepsut Military Tradition. The tech lifted Egypt from Annoyed to Cautious, so, with our hands already full, I think it was a good diplomatic investment.
While our foot soldiers (and bombarding Frigates) laid siege to the fortified capitol of Cumae, our Cavalry roamed the countryside, hitting targets of opportunity:
Needless to say, Ravenna burned.
Neapolis we kept, largely because of its proximity to existing German culture. And because we'd need it to claim that oil tile. Which is sort of the whole point of this little war.
After a surprisingly long time, Cumae finally fell, and our objective was completed:
... Or was it? Caesar was on the run, we had open borders with the Mali to use their roads, our military grossly outclassed Julie's, and our former Roman cities were complaining about their ancestral homeland. It was time for a safari!
Saladin (dear old grumpy Saladin) came to me with an intriguing offer, which I reluctantly accepted:
The thing was, EVERYONE was at war with China, so a) China was gonna get carved up pretty quickly, and I'd better grab my piece while I had a chance, and b) Qin was going to be way too busy to send an army against piddly old us, anyway, so what could the harm be?
Our troops endured the harrowing march through the Sahara desert:
Dr. Scout is really kind of superfluous at this point, what with Medic Cavalry and all, but he tagged along, anyway, doling out good advice on hydration and sunscreen. Pisae, being squeezed by both Egyptian and Malinese culture, was razed.
Oh, and it turns out we didn't lose any time by taking Biology, anyway:
Thanks, Mansa Musa! You're my favorite friend. For now.
Now well into Central Africa, Caesar and I played a perverse game of Cowboys and Indians in the heart of the jungle:
At this time, Johannes Brahms popped up in Berlin. I could have sent him into Africa to set up a colony in a captured Roman town, but instead I sent him to Paris:
He won us the Wheat and the Clams from the thieving English. For a powerhouse city like the former French capitol, I'd say that's worth significantly more than an expansion of an African foothold.
What was the Royal German Navy doing all this time, you ask? Why, opening up another front on the coast, of course:
My wounded cavalry officers reported seeing Elvis out in the bush:
I was about to send him to be checked for Malaria when I found out that Cyrus had a South African colony that he apparently wanted to bolster. I've never seen African this... multicultural. At this point we have German, Roman, Malinese, Egyptian, AND Persian cities on the Dark Continent.
Monty came by and offered me 230 gold to stop "threatening" him. I guess he heard about what was happening to Caesar.
Then the strangest thing happened. Saladin renounced his vassalage to Cyrus. Okay, it happens. Especially on this map, the diplomatic board ends up getting redrawn every few turns. But then:
Um... Sally, buddy, you're number 4 on the list of combatants in your particular skirmish. You just declared on numbers 1, 2, and 3 simultaneously. This can't end well for Arabia.
In 1725, our land and naval forces converged on Caesar's final fortress on the Cape of Good Hope (or thereabouts):
As a symbol of Caesar's final death (and because of Persia's culture bomb), the barbarian city-turned-Roman capitol burned, along with Julius Caesar's body.
But we weren't done! Remember that war with China? Well, once their Assembly plants were done, all of Germany began pumping out Infantry, Cannons, and the occasional Cavalry or two:
Most of them are fairly raw recruits, but if they're just doing mop-up duty on the Chinese (and possibly Arabian) front, snaking cities from our "war allies," they don't need much.
I sent a small scouting force east to see what there was to see, and found a right royal mess:
China's got a big old army. Emphasis on the "old." I think we could take'em.
State of the World to follow.
In this round, we underwent an Industrial Revolution, securing oil and building factories, as well as plucking an old thorn.
We started by cutting a deal with our Indian friends:
Mostly for the cash. Our Grenadiers need to trade in their sabers for something a bit more modern.
Around 1630, I finally accepted that the Great Library was not going to last forever:
Now, then... Oil, oil, oil. We have no oil! Louis has a patch, as does Catherine, but that's not of much use to us now. Should have killed them off when I had the chance. It took only a little bit of looking to find what we were looking for:
Dee-lightful. I'd been looking for an excuse to wipe the purple scourge from the map, anyway. And as you can see from the selected units screen, I have just the force to take it with.
Around this time, Roosevelt and Monty launched into a full-fledged Total War, we spawned a Great Scientist in Berlin (he founded an Academy in Paris), and Asoka became a vassal of Cyrus. Why doesn't anyone ever peacably submit to my rule? I don't use the whip... often.
With two turns left on Railroads, we did a bit of tech brokering. May as well do it while we still can:
This brought Mansa to Pleased, which made me happy.
With Railroads done, I had a difficult decision to make:
I veered off the Industrialism beeline for a coupl of reasons: a) my happy cap was well above most of my populations, b) Health was beginning to be a problem (Starvation was fairly rampant), and c) I was running Representation. More food=more specialists.
With the massive German Navy (consisting of two Galleons and two Frigates) loaded down with troops, it was time to seize what was rightfully ours:
We were only ferrying troops across a one-space gap, so the dearth of transports was a minor inconvenience rather than a deal-breaker.
We weren't exactly facing the state-of-the-art either:
Around this time we agreed to "help" Roosevelt in his war against the Aztecs and were bullied into gifting Hatshepsut Military Tradition. The tech lifted Egypt from Annoyed to Cautious, so, with our hands already full, I think it was a good diplomatic investment.
While our foot soldiers (and bombarding Frigates) laid siege to the fortified capitol of Cumae, our Cavalry roamed the countryside, hitting targets of opportunity:
Needless to say, Ravenna burned.
Neapolis we kept, largely because of its proximity to existing German culture. And because we'd need it to claim that oil tile. Which is sort of the whole point of this little war.
After a surprisingly long time, Cumae finally fell, and our objective was completed:
... Or was it? Caesar was on the run, we had open borders with the Mali to use their roads, our military grossly outclassed Julie's, and our former Roman cities were complaining about their ancestral homeland. It was time for a safari!
Saladin (dear old grumpy Saladin) came to me with an intriguing offer, which I reluctantly accepted:
The thing was, EVERYONE was at war with China, so a) China was gonna get carved up pretty quickly, and I'd better grab my piece while I had a chance, and b) Qin was going to be way too busy to send an army against piddly old us, anyway, so what could the harm be?
Our troops endured the harrowing march through the Sahara desert:
Dr. Scout is really kind of superfluous at this point, what with Medic Cavalry and all, but he tagged along, anyway, doling out good advice on hydration and sunscreen. Pisae, being squeezed by both Egyptian and Malinese culture, was razed.
Oh, and it turns out we didn't lose any time by taking Biology, anyway:
Thanks, Mansa Musa! You're my favorite friend. For now.
Now well into Central Africa, Caesar and I played a perverse game of Cowboys and Indians in the heart of the jungle:
At this time, Johannes Brahms popped up in Berlin. I could have sent him into Africa to set up a colony in a captured Roman town, but instead I sent him to Paris:
He won us the Wheat and the Clams from the thieving English. For a powerhouse city like the former French capitol, I'd say that's worth significantly more than an expansion of an African foothold.
What was the Royal German Navy doing all this time, you ask? Why, opening up another front on the coast, of course:
My wounded cavalry officers reported seeing Elvis out in the bush:
I was about to send him to be checked for Malaria when I found out that Cyrus had a South African colony that he apparently wanted to bolster. I've never seen African this... multicultural. At this point we have German, Roman, Malinese, Egyptian, AND Persian cities on the Dark Continent.
Monty came by and offered me 230 gold to stop "threatening" him. I guess he heard about what was happening to Caesar.
Then the strangest thing happened. Saladin renounced his vassalage to Cyrus. Okay, it happens. Especially on this map, the diplomatic board ends up getting redrawn every few turns. But then:
Um... Sally, buddy, you're number 4 on the list of combatants in your particular skirmish. You just declared on numbers 1, 2, and 3 simultaneously. This can't end well for Arabia.
In 1725, our land and naval forces converged on Caesar's final fortress on the Cape of Good Hope (or thereabouts):
As a symbol of Caesar's final death (and because of Persia's culture bomb), the barbarian city-turned-Roman capitol burned, along with Julius Caesar's body.
But we weren't done! Remember that war with China? Well, once their Assembly plants were done, all of Germany began pumping out Infantry, Cannons, and the occasional Cavalry or two:
Most of them are fairly raw recruits, but if they're just doing mop-up duty on the Chinese (and possibly Arabian) front, snaking cities from our "war allies," they don't need much.
I sent a small scouting force east to see what there was to see, and found a right royal mess:
China's got a big old army. Emphasis on the "old." I think we could take'em.
State of the World to follow.
Let's start with the fruits of our expedition.
North Africa, the whole point of our war:
And our two South African colonies:
The Domestic Advisor:
As you can see, plenty of troops. We're not going Space Race, and we'll kill anyone who does. (Note: I reserve the right to change my mind later
)
The foreign advisor:
See what I mean about everyone being at war with China?
Score and power graphs:
And the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/118138/Frederick_AD-1735.CivWarlordsSave
As always, thanks for your interest and advice!
North Africa, the whole point of our war:
And our two South African colonies:
The Domestic Advisor:
As you can see, plenty of troops. We're not going Space Race, and we'll kill anyone who does. (Note: I reserve the right to change my mind later
)The foreign advisor:
See what I mean about everyone being at war with China?
Score and power graphs:
And the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/118138/Frederick_AD-1735.CivWarlordsSave
As always, thanks for your interest and advice!
r_rolo1
King of myself
If you want to have a chance on this without space, you must somehow put Hatty and Cyrus killing eachother. Their power skyrockets the graph and hatty is not spending troops anywhere. About China, well.... it may worth the shot ( do you still have FP avaliable? Can't remember... And who has the Versailles BTW ? ). Asoka is softening the chinese punch for everyone ( especially to Cyrus... Keep a eye on him ) and after that it will be a walk on the park for any modern army (how is Cyrus in military techs? I see Asoka with SAMs ( aka Rocketry aka Artilery prereq aka plenty of arties ) so Cyrus should have arties and SAMs as well.... Oops, this means Cyrus has Rocketry too, so he must be building Apollo...bad news 
). You could use the Chinese territory as a Far eastern Base for your Panzer rush to the world ( bring planes too 
). But I repeat, you must stop both Cyrus and Hatty, even if you have to do it yourself 
.
). You could use the Chinese territory as a Far eastern Base for your Panzer rush to the world ( bring planes too ). But I repeat, you must stop both Cyrus and Hatty, even if you have to do it yourself .Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
In addition r_rolo1's advice, I would also recommend declaring war on Saladin. I expect it will only be a phony war (he has rather a lot on his hands right now ) and the relations boosts with the big techers are definitely worth a phony war.
) and the relations boosts with the big techers are definitely worth a phony war.
RockTheCazbah87
Pacal's pal
I'm in agreement with Shoot the Moon here.
I take it Diplo Victory is out of the question now?
I take it Diplo Victory is out of the question now?
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
I take it Diplo Victory is out of the question now?
I'm not so sure about that. We have Asoka at friendly and Cyrus, Mansa, and Roosevelt at pleased. That's pretty much all the remaining powers (and Egypt too I guess) In addition, we can get some easy positive modifiers with most of them simply by declaring on Saladin (or perhaps waiting until one of them asks, although I would find that doubtful as they are surely winning the war). And we have a large population from running an SE.
