King of the World #2: Frederick
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
Russia's land is quite nice.... but play safe and finish the Brits and ceasar first
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
All three at once. 
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O.K., I'm just kidding. I would at least cripple Kathy before she gets cossacks.
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O.K., I'm just kidding. I would at least cripple Kathy before she gets cossacks.
I would do my best to instigate a war with the persian/chinese/russians against each other before taking britain. If this is not doable, then it seems more prudent to severly weaken cathy before moving forward with someone else.
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
I think that could be the answer. If you can get someone else to cripple (or delay) Cathy, you would then be free to attack Eli at the same time.
RockTheCazbah87
Pacal's pal
I think you can forget about Elizabeth, I doubt she'll just randomly declare war. It's the Russian you wanna watch.
If you can get anyone else at all into the war against Cathy, then do it. Heal your stacks quickly and just go for it.
If you can get anyone else at all into the war against Cathy, then do it. Heal your stacks quickly and just go for it.
AThousandYoung
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2007
- Messages
- 399
You've taken all of Europe at this point, right? Ignore your navy, build up a horde of Knights or Cav and clear out continental Eurasia: Russia, Mongolia, China, India, Persia, and then into Arabia, Egypt, and then Mali. Don't go for Japan or England. Right there you might have enough for Domination, but if not you can take the island nations later with your insane production.
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
Cathy must die next, for a number of reasons:
1. Liz is a good tech trade partner, and can be "handled" at a later date.
2. Cathy *will* backstab you at some point (again).
3. She's in the way of your conquest of Asia and Africa.
4. Lots of cities makes Nationalism dramatically more powerful - she has cities.
5. Liz's cities are primarily not connected to the main landmass, making reason #5 logistically challenging.
6. She started it......
1. Liz is a good tech trade partner, and can be "handled" at a later date.
2. Cathy *will* backstab you at some point (again).
3. She's in the way of your conquest of Asia and Africa.
4. Lots of cities makes Nationalism dramatically more powerful - she has cities.
5. Liz's cities are primarily not connected to the main landmass, making reason #5 logistically challenging.
6. She started it......
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
Destroy Cathy ASAP. I would go for a strike into Moscow, and only then go for her other cities. This would help a lot because then its much harder for her to organize a counterattack or research MT + Rifling.
I am once again convinced that the sky is falling.
It all started so well, too. We made peace with the Great Bear, and started to stack up our forces against Greece. At first, my biggest concern was the fact that Alexander had a second city tucked away east of Russia:
It was going to be tough sneaking some units through hostile Russian territory to get that far (and I didn't plan on signing an Open Borders treaty with Catherine).
In this next screenshot you'll see the anti-Hellenic strike force:
Okay, okay. That's a good chunk of our standing army. But if the plan is to use it against Cathy real soon now, we may as well take it all to ensure a rapid battle.
I hate doing this sort of thing, but the turning point had come. Alexander was now worth more to us dead than alive:
Shortly after our declaration, Catherine did us a huge favor:
At least now we don't have to worry about homeland penalties once Athens falls.
Speaking of Athens, there wasn't a whole heck of a lot defending her:
Here we also see the darker side of Alexander continuing to be at war with Russia. Novgorod's resources are all in Greek territory, so Cathy's pillaging the heck out of it. Ah, well. That'll give our workers something to do.
Athens obviously fell quickly, signifying the end of the Greek empire:
We then spent a few turns consolidating our forces, healing up, building trebuchets, and upgrading our CR3 Macemen to Grenadiers.
We also finally got our lucky roll on Great People:
I can't believe that I'm rolling my eyes at Scientists and pining for Artists.
In 1400, it was time to reopen hostilities:
Target number one was the fortress-city of St. Petersburg, that we had tried and failed to besiege in the First Russian War:
Every single one of those Grenadiers is CR2, at least, with most of them being CR3. They tore through Russia's best and bravest like butter.
Around this time, China and India declared war on one another. Good to see two of my greater rivals going at it. Too bad I can't stir up any bad blood between the big dogs, Persia and Egypt. Also, we learned the secrets of Steel, which meant that we could phase fully into a gunpowder army (well, except for those Knights). Cannons would be most useful, though somewhat time-consuming to get to the front.
In 1430, St. Petersburg fell. Ludwig van Beethoven put on his best spangly suit, donned his shades, and put on an incredible show, exhibiting the boons of German culture to the downcast, conquered people:
Here we jump-started our somewhat flagging research by trading Elizabeth Chemistry, Steel and our map for Nationalism, Printing Press, Constitution and 570 gold. We could finally switch to Representation and get the most out of our specialists. Oh, to those who would say that we should have taken the Pyramids: Sadly, they're stuck smack dab in the middle of Cyrus' empire. They're going to have to wait.
Apparently, St. Petersburg was set up to be hardpoint in Catherine's defenses. Moscow was barely defended:
And fell in 1500. Nothing incredible inside- a few infrastructure buildings and a Military Academy, which was nice.
Around here we finished researching Liberalism (Are the A.I.s always this reticent to trade that stupid tech?) and made a civics change that should last us quite a while:
Shortly after the fall of Moscow, our troops came upon Russia's second capitol:
And razed it. It was at the junction of Russian, Persian, and Egyptian culture. Its borders would not hold.
Ten years later, Catherine lost her third capitol:
Russia was on the ropes. Catherine's harrying assaults had stopped as everything was pulled behind her walls. City garrisons were getting more and more raw and ill-equipped. Only a few cities remained (except for one annoying island-fortress off the coast of Africa. Soon, Catherine would be... NOT AGAIN!
It all started so well, too. We made peace with the Great Bear, and started to stack up our forces against Greece. At first, my biggest concern was the fact that Alexander had a second city tucked away east of Russia:
It was going to be tough sneaking some units through hostile Russian territory to get that far (and I didn't plan on signing an Open Borders treaty with Catherine).
In this next screenshot you'll see the anti-Hellenic strike force:
Okay, okay. That's a good chunk of our standing army. But if the plan is to use it against Cathy real soon now, we may as well take it all to ensure a rapid battle.
I hate doing this sort of thing, but the turning point had come. Alexander was now worth more to us dead than alive:
Shortly after our declaration, Catherine did us a huge favor:
At least now we don't have to worry about homeland penalties once Athens falls.
Speaking of Athens, there wasn't a whole heck of a lot defending her:
Here we also see the darker side of Alexander continuing to be at war with Russia. Novgorod's resources are all in Greek territory, so Cathy's pillaging the heck out of it. Ah, well. That'll give our workers something to do.
Athens obviously fell quickly, signifying the end of the Greek empire:
We then spent a few turns consolidating our forces, healing up, building trebuchets, and upgrading our CR3 Macemen to Grenadiers.
We also finally got our lucky roll on Great People:
I can't believe that I'm rolling my eyes at Scientists and pining for Artists.
In 1400, it was time to reopen hostilities:
Target number one was the fortress-city of St. Petersburg, that we had tried and failed to besiege in the First Russian War:
Every single one of those Grenadiers is CR2, at least, with most of them being CR3. They tore through Russia's best and bravest like butter.
Around this time, China and India declared war on one another. Good to see two of my greater rivals going at it. Too bad I can't stir up any bad blood between the big dogs, Persia and Egypt. Also, we learned the secrets of Steel, which meant that we could phase fully into a gunpowder army (well, except for those Knights). Cannons would be most useful, though somewhat time-consuming to get to the front.
In 1430, St. Petersburg fell. Ludwig van Beethoven put on his best spangly suit, donned his shades, and put on an incredible show, exhibiting the boons of German culture to the downcast, conquered people:
Here we jump-started our somewhat flagging research by trading Elizabeth Chemistry, Steel and our map for Nationalism, Printing Press, Constitution and 570 gold. We could finally switch to Representation and get the most out of our specialists. Oh, to those who would say that we should have taken the Pyramids: Sadly, they're stuck smack dab in the middle of Cyrus' empire. They're going to have to wait.
Apparently, St. Petersburg was set up to be hardpoint in Catherine's defenses. Moscow was barely defended:
And fell in 1500. Nothing incredible inside- a few infrastructure buildings and a Military Academy, which was nice.
Around here we finished researching Liberalism (Are the A.I.s always this reticent to trade that stupid tech?) and made a civics change that should last us quite a while:
Shortly after the fall of Moscow, our troops came upon Russia's second capitol:
And razed it. It was at the junction of Russian, Persian, and Egyptian culture. Its borders would not hold.
Ten years later, Catherine lost her third capitol:
Russia was on the ropes. Catherine's harrying assaults had stopped as everything was pulled behind her walls. City garrisons were getting more and more raw and ill-equipped. Only a few cities remained (except for one annoying island-fortress off the coast of Africa. Soon, Catherine would be... NOT AGAIN!
It seems that in that big tech trade, I gave Elizabeth a hammer, and I'm starting to look like a nail.
The British are coming. Thankfully, the invasion seems pretty minor so far, but our entire army is to the east. We are in no way prepared for a fresh, technologically advanced attack on our flank. We're especially unprepared for Redcoats.
The attack seems to be an overland strike from Norway:
You can see the entire invasion force (one Redcoat) in that forest. Sadly, the worker that was chopping that forest down is no more.
Here's the productive parts of my empire:
You'll see that it's all civilian builds. I was planning on taking a couple of turns of peace once Cathy was eliminated (or at least exiled to her island) to get our economy in order, but it doesn't look like that's happening.
Oh, and in case you were wondering whether the English Channel would slow down Liz's invasion fleet? No such luck:
She's got naval units out the proverbial wazoo.
Silver linings? We've got two that I can see. First, we're running Nationalism and Slavery, so we can rush a respectable force of defenders fairly quickly (though not quickly enough, if the English decide to really commit to this war). We don't have Rifling, though, so we're looking at Grenadiers (Whipped) and Musketmen (Drafted).
Secondly, Catherine is willing to throw in the towel:
Normally, I'd be loathe to accept this offer, but the English threat must, I think, be reckoned with. Heck, in this situation, I'm almost tempted to accept the Capitulation and gift back Yaroslavl' or even Moscow to get her up to War Thrall status (Louis is honestly just a too-much-trouble-to-conquer vassal, but Catherine could still be useful). And if she gets too big for her briches and breaks Vassalage later on, well, so much the better, no?
So there we have it. Once again, Germans must die to defend their homelands. And Paris. Possibly. What do you all think? There are enough settled GP in Paris and especially Berlin that if they fall, the game is effectively over. Does Liz indulge in "fake wars" or should we be ready for 20-something Redcoats and Cannons to land on our shores?
Here's the save. As usual, I would be most grateful to anyone willing to download and check it out:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/118138/Frederick_AD-1540.CivWarlordsSave
The British are coming. Thankfully, the invasion seems pretty minor so far, but our entire army is to the east. We are in no way prepared for a fresh, technologically advanced attack on our flank. We're especially unprepared for Redcoats.
The attack seems to be an overland strike from Norway:
You can see the entire invasion force (one Redcoat) in that forest. Sadly, the worker that was chopping that forest down is no more.
Here's the productive parts of my empire:
You'll see that it's all civilian builds. I was planning on taking a couple of turns of peace once Cathy was eliminated (or at least exiled to her island) to get our economy in order, but it doesn't look like that's happening.
Oh, and in case you were wondering whether the English Channel would slow down Liz's invasion fleet? No such luck:
She's got naval units out the proverbial wazoo.
Silver linings? We've got two that I can see. First, we're running Nationalism and Slavery, so we can rush a respectable force of defenders fairly quickly (though not quickly enough, if the English decide to really commit to this war). We don't have Rifling, though, so we're looking at Grenadiers (Whipped) and Musketmen (Drafted).
Secondly, Catherine is willing to throw in the towel:
Normally, I'd be loathe to accept this offer, but the English threat must, I think, be reckoned with. Heck, in this situation, I'm almost tempted to accept the Capitulation and gift back Yaroslavl' or even Moscow to get her up to War Thrall status (Louis is honestly just a too-much-trouble-to-conquer vassal, but Catherine could still be useful). And if she gets too big for her briches and breaks Vassalage later on, well, so much the better, no?
So there we have it. Once again, Germans must die to defend their homelands. And Paris. Possibly. What do you all think? There are enough settled GP in Paris and especially Berlin that if they fall, the game is effectively over. Does Liz indulge in "fake wars" or should we be ready for 20-something Redcoats and Cannons to land on our shores?
Here's the save. As usual, I would be most grateful to anyone willing to download and check it out:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/118138/Frederick_AD-1540.CivWarlordsSave
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
I think Yekaterinburg is probably distant enough from Yaroslavl' and Moscow that the capitulation is not ideal, but OK. Double monasteries will help.
I think you just can't tell whether Liz is going to do a serious invasion or not. I'd guess probably not, since the AI likes sneak attacks, right? Still, I'd go generous with the defenders.
Definitely research Rifling until Asoka is willing to trade it for Steel. Whipped Grenadiers are good against Redcoats, but you need to pimp your draft. It's probably a good time to start pumping the culture slider, too. Just get Rifling, then you're OK for a while and can whip/draft way down if needed.
Any reason not to OB with Mansa? You could use a couple better trade routes.
I'd swap the fish to Athens. Even if it just supports two Artists, that'd be dandy.
Bright side, Liz has good land.
I don't know if you can get Domination now (I really think on any Huge size map you gotta play Marathon or at the very least Epic for that) but if not that I think you're in a good position for an exciting space race against the middle east.
I think you just can't tell whether Liz is going to do a serious invasion or not. I'd guess probably not, since the AI likes sneak attacks, right? Still, I'd go generous with the defenders.
Definitely research Rifling until Asoka is willing to trade it for Steel. Whipped Grenadiers are good against Redcoats, but you need to pimp your draft. It's probably a good time to start pumping the culture slider, too. Just get Rifling, then you're OK for a while and can whip/draft way down if needed.
Any reason not to OB with Mansa? You could use a couple better trade routes.
I'd swap the fish to Athens. Even if it just supports two Artists, that'd be dandy.
Bright side, Liz has good land.
I don't know if you can get Domination now (I really think on any Huge size map you gotta play Marathon or at the very least Epic for that) but if not that I think you're in a good position for an exciting space race against the middle east.
xfactor99
Warlord
I can only imagine the look on your face when the horns of war blared and Elizabeth popped up on your screen...You could vassalize Catherine and bring her into the war with Elizabeth, personally I try to avoid vassals at all costs, and I doubt she'd be much help against the Virgin Queen, but you could just cease fire with her and hope she doesn't DoW on you again. That's probably pushing it, though.
You can bribe Monty into war with Elizabeth by giving him Guilds, maybe he can take Oxford if he's lucky.
Try to trade for Astronomy - can you force Catherine into giving it to you? so you can build some Frigates/upgrade some caravels to counter the English sea menace. At best, she'll just pillage your clams, at worst she'll send a stack of those redcoats for Paris and/or Orleans. I've seen her declare war on France on the Earth map before with many, many Transports, Infantries, Marines, Tanks, and Artillery in London but never sending them over. Do not underestimate the unintelligent behavior of the AI.
Research Rifling/Military Tradition ASAP, because if Elizabeth gets Cavalry soon, that would make life pretty miserable for you. I don't think invading the northern cities with your CR Grenadiers and some Cannons is that implausible of a scenario - how about sending an expeditionary force to see how many defenders Coventry's got? If there's a SoD, sit back and wait for the blow. If there's minimal defense, go for it!
Rushing/whipping some defenders in Paris and Orleans is a definite, but don't be surprised if the amphibious invasion never comes. Even so, prepare for the worst
AThousandYoung
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2007
- Messages
- 399
This is what cavalry's for. Just send the Knights back to France and you'll be all right.
Oops. Redcoats. Crap.
Oops. Redcoats. Crap.
TeraHammer
Prince
I'm following your topics with eager, neal. Just one thing to comment, you shouldnt pillage if you sure you can get the city (on madrid and novogrod, for example).
r_rolo1
King of myself
I warned you 
... How many grens do you have in Paris? If you have 3/4 and the English drop their task force near paris ( most likely) maybe it will hold. I would not acept Cathy's offer now, because you'll need her land ( cease fire will do ).
I like the idea of bribing monty to the war ( when you need a war ally there's nothing like bribing Monty ), but it all depends where Liz is going to drop the troops ( if she is going to land them )
... How many grens do you have in Paris? If you have 3/4 and the English drop their task force near paris ( most likely) maybe it will hold. I would not acept Cathy's offer now, because you'll need her land ( cease fire will do ).I like the idea of bribing monty to the war ( when you need a war ally there's nothing like bribing Monty
), but it all depends where Liz is going to drop the troops ( if she is going to land them )
RockTheCazbah87
Pacal's pal
I HATE it when the AI does that!
Just yesterday, Toku put troops on a Caravel, made ground and took my city. All in one turn.
I feel for you Neal!
Just yesterday, Toku put troops on a Caravel, made ground and took my city. All in one turn.
I feel for you Neal!
Actually, the first thing I saw was that a Worker had been captured. My initial reaction was, "how in God's name did Catherine manage to sneak a unit all the way back to Germany?"
Keep the ideas rolling, guys. Though I question the use of having Monty take Oxford. I think an undeveloped American colony like that is more upkeep than it's worth, no? Though it is a fun idea.
TeraHammer: The only things I pillaged were the Iron sources in Madrid and Athens. Unfortunately in Athens, Russia was still at war with Greece and had a Knight running around willy-nilly burning stuff. That weren't me
Jet: Thanks for the micromanagement advice. I unfortunately tend to lose sight of the trees for the forest once I'm beyond three or four cities. And yeah, I would think that if there was going to be a genuine threat, she would've prepped it before the DoW and landed on Turn 1.
Oh, and yeah, I kinda figured that Domination was no longer a realistic goal a while ago. I see three options: We can a) Press on. We'll likely be in position for a Time victory after all is said and done if we conquer enough of the world. b) Press on while paying a little more attention to diplomacy and try to backdoor a Diplomatic victory with all our votes. c) Press on, but start putting more emphasis on research and civilian builds. We're gonna need to take this one to the stars.
(a) is the purist approach, and frankly sounds a bit tedious. I'm kind of eager to move on to a BtS game, but if it's what the world wants, I'm willing to serve. (c) is kind of a wimp-out, and it's already what we did with Monty. I like (b), myself. I just hope that our diplomacy (always a nemesis of mine) isn't far gone enough to close that particular door.
Perversely, should the English threat be just a threat, (b) is the only scenario in which it makes sense to vassalize Catherine. If all we need is her votes, there's no need to keep fighting, is there?
