Korea

[Krugi]

Perhaps the naval Korean UHV should be spiced up a bit, like »pillage 10 tile improvements on the Japanese Home Islands and sink 15 ships«. Late-game naval warfare is lots of fun, I'll sign that any day of the week! — but in the Classical Age, the strategy can be summed up as »trireme kills galley«, the true challenge consisting of the narrow time frame to complete all three UHV goals.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I was having fun waging naval war against Japan.

But yeah enjoy playing around with your culture slider.

Naval war against Japan has nothing to do with the sink ships UHV. That UHV is about building Privateers - where you send them does not matter.

And I never suggested Cultural UHVs for Korea. Those are other people's ideas. I much prefer a launch ICBM goal because

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Naval war against Japan has nothing to do with the sink ships UHV. That UHV is about building Privateers - where you send them does not matter.

And I never suggested Cultural UHVs for Korea. Those are other people's ideas. I much prefer a launch ICBM goal because

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[ImNotHere]

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North Korean takeover/assimilation of Japan.

 

[Civciv5]

I oppose the addition of any UHV that has something to do with North Korea, as Korea usually survives and does not get occupied by Japan in this mod, North and South Korea never came into existence in this mod. If Korea wasn't occupied by Japan, it would now be a kingdom or republic and should not get some goal to randomly nuke some nation as it hasn't even launched a nuke in real life.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I oppose the addition of any UHV that has something to do with North Korea, as Korea usually survives and does not get occupied by Japan in this mod, North and South Korea never came into existence in this mod. If Korea wasn't occupied by Japan, it would now be a kingdom or republic and should not get some goal to randomly nuke some nation as it hasn't even launched a nuke in real life.

Indeed. The division of Korea into two states was a direct result of its occupation by Japan. The same goes with Germany (1945-1990) and Vietnam (1954-1975). If Germany had not allied with Japan during WWII it would never have been divided into two afterward. I think it's because the Japanese flag has two colors that Japan causes every country it allies with to be divided into two.

 

[Leoreth]

Naval war against Japan has nothing to do with the sink ships UHV. That UHV is about building Privateers - where you send them does not matter.

If you play the UHV in a way that's not fun then the UHV is not fun

 

[iOnlySignIn]

If you play the UHV in a way that's not fun then the UHV is not fun

I could launch ICBMs, flip Chinese/Japanese cities, become the largest civ in Asia, and be the first to research Education when playing the current Korean UHV too. That makes it very fun for me.

By this logic no UHV needs to be changed (or even created in the first place). If they are not fun to play it's the player's fault.

 

[Leoreth]

Basically yes. I provide the pizza, you're the one adding the cheese.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Maybe a better reference would be that Leoreth is the baker, CivFanatics delivers the pizza, and the player eats the pizza. The cheese is part of the pizza. DOC is the pizza.

 

[giant49er]

Indeed. The division of Korea into two states was a direct result of its occupation by Japan. The same goes with Germany (1945-1990) and Vietnam (1954-1975). If Germany had not allied with Japan during WWII it would never have been divided into two afterward. I think it's because the Japanese flag has two colors that Japan causes every country it allies with to be divided into two.

I highly doubt that Korea would be in its current state of affairs if Japan had never occupied it.

Basically yes. I provide the pizza, you're the one adding the cheese.

Maybe a better reference would be that Leoreth is the baker, CivFanatics delivers the pizza, and the player eats the pizza. The cheese is part of the pizza. DOC is the pizza.

Mmmm, pizza.

Back on topic though, I'm starting to doubt the merits of giving Korea a UB, a UP, and a UHV goal that all revolve around Korean education. I'm sure it was great and all, but was it ever particularly unique from other East Asian education systems? And I'm not sure about including a modern era goal for Korea either. You'd be spending a lot of time on the next turn button.

 

[Leoreth]

As long as it is clear that I have nothing to do with the cheese.

 

[UnholyMudcrab]

And I'm not sure about including a modern era goal for Korea either. You'd be spending a lot of time on the next turn button.

Indonesia has a population goal in 1940, and Ethiopia has to keep Europe out of Africa until 1910, so it's not without precedent.

 

[giant49er]

Indonesia has a population goal in 1940, and Ethiopia has to keep Europe out of Africa until 1910, so it's not without precedent.

I dislike those goals for the same reason, but that's just me.

 

[archcapitalist]

I dislike those goals for the same reason, but that's just me.

fully agreed. the last thing we need is more of those. i love playing indonesia, except for how long you have to wait for that last one

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I have a new idea for the Korean UP:

== Alternative UP ==

The Power of Defiance
+50% Defense in all cities and reduced Stability penalty for loosing cities and units.
Reduced Stability penalty here means: loosing cities will only cause minimal Stability hit (that you can recover by getting the city back or building a new city); loosing units will not cause any Stability hit.

Some has expressed concern that Korea's UB already signifies its education. Perhaps a UP for the same purpose would be redundant.

That got me thinking. What Korea lacks most in this game is military strength. It can do very little in the face of China's vastly superior technology, Japan's super elite training, or Mongolia's raw numbers and ridiculous UU. It gets crushed way too easily. In reality Korea in its long history was never completely subjugated by a foreign power until the 20th century. Perhaps in game it can benefit from a military UP (for land war).

In the same way that Japan's UP is an uber version of the Charismatic Trait from BTS, this UP (Defiance) is an uber version of the Protective Trait. With a few important differences:
- The +50% Defense will be in the form of free Cultural Defense and all your units would benefit from it.
- It stacks on top of CG Promotions making it much more powerful than the Protective Trait.
- It can be used aggressively. The lack of Stability penalty from loosing units allows you to suicide stacks of Siege units with impunity. This represents the Hwacha UU without explicitly making it a unit in the game.

 

[UnholyMudcrab]

fully agreed. the last thing we need is more of those. i love playing indonesia, except for how long you have to wait for that last one

I think that, instead of that last UHV, there should be something relating to Islam. I don't know whether other people are the same way, but I very rarely do anything with the Islamic missionaries that spawn, both because I don't want the added unhappiness in the cities and because most of my neighbours are already Buddhist or Hindu and I don't want to strain relations with them.

I was thinking, if we want to keep the population focus, we could shoot for something like "Be the most populous Islamic nation in so-and-so year (say, 1600)." However, that might be a little too similar to the first UHV goal. What do you guys think?

 

[giant49er]

I was thinking, if we want to keep the population focus, we could shoot for something like "Be the most populous Islamic nation in so-and-so year (say, 1600)." However, that might be a little too similar to the first UHV goal. What do you guys think?

That sounds like a cool goal, but I think all of Southeast Asia (including Indonesia) needs a big overhaul anyway.