"Less Popular" Leader Elimination Thread

[Siptah]

Alexander II (Russia) 22
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 20
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 22 (25-3) Upvoted him before iirc, but choices have to be made - I think a Powhatan Confederacy covers a too short time frame.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23 (22+1) While our modern perception of him is heavily biased since the 19th century, appearing in Commentarii de Bello Gallico and Asterix are convincing arguments.
Yongle Emperor 17

 

[Zaarin]

Alexander II (Russia) 22
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 17 (20 - 3) -- I disagree with Morningcalm that Pachacuti is a better option (like Gilgamesh, Pachacuti is semi-mythical--the man existed, but probably was not nearly as impressive as his legend), but I do agree there are better options than Atahualpa. Still wouldn't mind seeing Atahualpa portrayed with the gilded skull of his brother, though. (I would take this moment to add that the records seem to suggest that Atahualpa was a capable leader--he just had the misfortune to rule at the wrong time of history.)
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 23 (22 + 1) -- I think Powhatan himself is argument enough for the Powhatan. His confederacy dominated the Mid-Atlantic, dominated Jamestown for a time, and he himself was described as a man of incredible presence. Plus his Confederacy would fill the same gameplay niche as the Iroquois (and did it without gunpowder), and would be someone new.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 17

 

[Kimiimaro]

Still wouldn't mind seeing Atahualpa portrayed with the gilded skull of his brother, though.

A gilded human skull in this happy and cartoony game with happy music and comic fights?

Alexander II (Russia) 22+1=23 - The Liberator.
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 17
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 23-3=20 - Still haven't decided. Given that I was never quite interested in Native Americans and given that one of my favourites, Alexander II, is behind him, I'll give him my downvote today
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 17

 

[Guandao]

Alexander II (Russia) 23
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) (17-3)=14 Got himself captured by a small group of Spaniards, and was very cruel to his brother's family and Inca historians.
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) (20+1)=21 Too short in time period? Um, we have countries like Australia, Brazil, etc in the game. I get a lot of non-Americans (South Americans/Europeans among them) dislike Northern Native Americans being in the game (in a manner which strikes me as prejudiced, dare I say racist in a way), but it's not the Powhatan's fault the earlier history was lost due to contact with Europeans. He was basically equivalent to a European king in his lands. Possibly the only argument I might accept against the Powhatan's inclusion is their language not being as well attested as say Mohawk.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 17

I hope it won't come down to two European monarchs in the end. No offense, but I'm getting tired of European leaders.

 

[Zaarin]

A gilded human skull in this happy and cartoony game with happy music and comic fights?

Ah, yes, "cartoony"; we have dismissed that claim. I'd call Civ6's art style "stylized"; "cartoony" is something else entirely. Plus I'd point out Monty's leader ability is explicitly connected to human sacrifice, so it's not like Civ6 is afraid to show the darker side of human history.

Moderator Action: Reminder, you should only be posting in an elimination thread if you are voting or correcting the vote totals.-- Browd

 

[Phrozen]

Alexander II (Russia) 23
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 14
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 21 +1 = 22. Didn't have a small kingdom at all. Just look at the map below. Basically controlled the Chesapeake.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 17 - 3. Taizong or Kangxi would be better choices for China.

 

[Morningcalm]

Alexander II (Russia) 23
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 14 - 3 = 11 (A bad choice for the Inca given his ignominious defeat (unfortunately the same is true for Cuauhtemoc of the Aztecs, who put up brave resistance but ultimately failed in a bad way against the Spanish). As an aside, I disagree with Zaarin that Pachacuti is somehow not better than Atahualpa, even if you are skeptical of the legends surrounding him. He is far less legendary than Gilgamesh, even with the stone soldier story accounted for. For one thing, he has a clearly distinguishable personality and agenda, and he was widely considered of the best Sapa Inca for having expanded the Inca empire from a tiny entity to an empire.)
Hezekiah (Judah) 19 + 1 = 20 (A clear personality and history which would fit well in Civ VI. Diplomacy re: alliance-making, defensive bonuses, and religious bonuses all make sense for him)
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 22
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 14

 

[Zaarin]

Alexander II (Russia) 20 (23 - 3) -- He's fine, but Russia is hardly languishing for a second leader.
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 11 -- Pachacuti and Gilgamesh have a great deal in common, especially in that they are both the first rulers of their respective civilizations that is considered historical after a long list of purely legendary and godlike kings. I have no problem with either of them per se, but Civ6's portrayal of Gilgamesh hardly inspires confidence. I'd argue Huayna Capac, Atahualpa's father, would be a much better choice.
Hezekiah (Judah) 20
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 23 (22 + 1) -- IMO he could be the most intriguing leader on this list and has the most promising in-game depiction.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 14

 

[Kimiimaro]

Ah, yes, "cartoony"; we have dismissed that claim. I'd call Civ6's art style "stylized"; "cartoony" is something else entirely. Plus I'd point out Monty's leader ability is explicitly connected to human sacrifice, so it's not like Civ6 is afraid to show the darker side of human history.

They're coming up with a human sacrifice, but they're scared to kill the horse under the cavarly units, although it's the best way to take care of cavarly? Hmm... Gilded skull would have been much better in Civ V leaderscreen - Monty had a whole wall of skulls behind him... Let's hope that some future Civ will return to that art style. I loved these leaderscreens.

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 11-3=8 - Incans must definitely return, but I'm not sure if I would pick him over Huayna Capac or Pachacuti again.
Hezekiah (Judah) 20
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 23
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 14+1=15 - Yongle Encyclopedia?

 

[Morningcalm]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 8 - 3 = 5 (Atahualpa was not a successful ruler in the end, though one might speculate it's because only he had to deal with the Spanish (as opposed to his predecessors). Disagree that Gilgamesh and Pacachuti have much in common; I think you'd have to look to earlier Inca leaders for that level of mythologizing.)
Hezekiah (Judah) 20 + 1 = 21 (What can I say? He's among the leaders on this list I knew the least about before doing some research, and I think he stands out as an excellent potential leader for VI. He was not a conventionally successful warrior on the scale of say Vercingetorix or Alexios, and I think that defensive bonuses could use some interesting play in VI)
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 23
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 15

 

[Zaarin]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26
Atahualpa (Inca) 5 -- I don't really care to get too embroiled in a discussion of Pachacuti, who isn't even on this list. I wouldn't object to him; he just wouldn't be my first choice.
Hezekiah (Judah) 21
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 24 (23 + 1) -- He and Alexios are my favorite leaders on this list, and Alexios is doing just fine.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 12 (15 - 3) -- I wouldn't object to the Yongle Emperor, but I'd prefer to see one of the great emperors of Tang--like Taizong or Wu Zetian.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 26+1=27 - At the start of his reign, Byzantium was an unstable ruin, at the end, it was strong and stable again.
Atahualpa (Inca) 5-3=2 - Who's going to be Pizzaro here?
Hezekiah (Judah) 21
Menawa (Creek) 20
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 24
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 12

 

[Guandao]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 27
Atahualpa (Inca) 2-3=0 Eliminated! He lost to a small group of Spaniards. I'll sent his mummy to Ecuador!
Hezekiah (Judah) 21
Menawa (Creek) (20+1)=21 He fought to preserve Creek traditions and against the traitors/sell-outs among his people.
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 24
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23
Yongle Emperor 12

 

[Morningcalm]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 27
Hezekiah (Judah) 21
Menawa (Creek) 21
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 24
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 23 + 1 = 24 (While he was defeated, he is definitely iconic enough to suit VI, even if Caesar's victory over him was an immense one.)
Yongle Emperor 12 - 3 = 9 (A cruel non-Confucian, whose fame largely derives from the work of Zheng He, his admirable admiral.)

 

[Manifold]

Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 27
Hezekiah (Judah) 18 (21-3) who?
Menawa (Creek) 21
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 24
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 24
Yongle Emperor 10 (9+1) it is a joke to down vote him!

 

[Zaarin]

Alexander II (Russia) 17 (20 - 3) -- A fine choice for a second Russian leader, but Russia's not exactly in dire need of one.
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 27
Hezekiah (Judah) 18
Menawa (Creek) 21
Napoleon III (France) 20
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 25 (24 + 1) -- A welcome replacement for the Iroquois and a man who was said to be the equal in majesty to any king in Europe.
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 24
Yongle Emperor 10

 

[Kimiimaro]

Alexander II (Russia) 17
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 27+1=28 - Let's help him reach 30 points.
Hezekiah (Judah) 18
Menawa (Creek) 21
Napoleon III (France) 20-3=17 - He is quite good choice for a leader, France needs a second leader, but I prefer either his uncle, or some medieval king of France.
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 25
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 24
Yongle Emperor 10

 

[Guandao]

Alexander II (Russia) 17
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 28
Hezekiah (Judah) 18
Menawa (Creek) (21+1)=22 I understand his actions, he wanted to maintain tradition, while other leaders were favoring assimilation and relocation to Oklahoma.
Napoleon III (France) 17
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 25
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 24
Yongle Emperor (10-3)=7 He's not my first choice for an alt Chinese leader. I think Zheng He is more interesting than him, but he can't be leader for obvious reasons.

 

[Morningcalm]

Alexander II (Russia) 17
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 28
Hezekiah (Judah) 18 + 1 = 19 (This ruler defied Sennacherib's Assyrian empire, built alliances with Egypt and others to defy them, made religious reforms, and took numerous defensive actions to prepare for Assyria. He kept Jerusalem out of Assyrian hands, is regarded as a devout ruler in the Bible, and is well-attested archaeologically, which is more than can be said for most Hebrew rulers of ancient times.)
Menawa (Creek) 22
Napoleon III (France) 17
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 25
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 24
Yongle Emperor 7 - 3 = 4 (A distinctly unConfucian leader. With the ruthless and unConfucian Qin already in the game, we could do with someone who was better in that way, perhaps Kangxi, who though half-Manchu was more bound to and devoutly followed Confucianism than many other Chinese rulers. Yongle himself is overrated, known mostly for the treasure fleet.)

 

[Manifold]

Alexander II (Russia) 17
Alexios I Komnenos (Byzantium) 28
Hezekiah (Judah) 19
Menawa (Creek) 22
Napoleon III (France) 17
Powhatan (Powhatan Confederacy) 25
Vercingetorix (Celts / Gauls) 21 (24-3) led a regional and unsuccessful uprising for six months
Yongle Emperor 5 (4+1) little history lesson: While the rule of Ming was China's competitive and in technological leadership. During the Manchu, China fell behind Europe and suffered a long period of humiliation. 100 years after Kangxi was China on the deep ground.