Lets be honest about Kyoto

[Bozo Erectus]

You don't get it. EU is among the initiators of Kyoto protocol and even if it may fail in meeting its goals, Europe at least try to do so.

The United States are doing absolutely nothing. So yes, with about one third of all pollution originating in the US and no signs of willingness to reduce it, United States are the main villain here.

Winner Im sorry, but your definition of 'trying' is, signing a document, ignoring it, then criticisizing a country because it didnt sign it. Theres no correlation between signing documents and global mean temperature. To me, trying means that one is taking steps to bring oneself into compliance with the agreement.

 

[Winner]

Emissions per capita:

USA: 20.1 tons
EU: 8.5 tons
China: 2.3 tons
Russia: 9.6 tons
Japan: 8.9 tons
India: 0.99 tons

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Winner, why doesnt the EU comply with the Kyoto protocol, which it signed?

 

[JohnRM]

Emissions per capita:

USA: 20.1 tons
EU: 8.5 tons
China: 2.3 tons
Russia: 9.6 tons
Japan: 8.9 tons
India: 0.99 tons

Geez, you can just spot every single economic recession/depression in that chart for each region.

 

[antonio]

We realy should get our act together and sign a envoirmental treaty that actualy dose something. We also better make sure evry country signs up to it and evry country obeys it unlike Kyoto. Which is a bit pointless I have to say seeing as no one even dose what they say they will.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Aside from the EUs lack of compliance with Kyoto, note how nobody disputes the fact that Kyoto, even if fully implemented, would have little or no impact on global warming.

 

[Winner]

Bozo:

Have you any serious figures proving that, or it's just your assumption? AFAIK Kyoto treaty is in power just for few months.

 

[JohnRM]

They hope by not discussing it, it will melt away with the rest of the spam.

 

[E-Raser]

Aside from the EUs lack of compliance with Kyoto, note how nobody disputes the fact that Kyoto, even if fully implemented, would have little or no impact on global warming.

Doubtfully, but anyway a little inmpact would be better than none, wouldn't it?

 

[Stapel]

The point is to do at least SOMETHING and stop ignoring the problem, which is REAL.

Oh, and when this SOMETHING is totally useless? Even a succesfull Kyoto doesn't change a dime.

There has been so much false info on invironmental issues. I'm still not convinced the problem is that REAL. 10.000 years ago, there were thick layers of ice, right here where I type this post. Since then, temperature has risen a lot.

Must have been the industrial CO2........

Even if the problem is REAL! Why do I get smashed with nonsense extra info? To prevent me from takign the real points as REAL, or what?

 

[Winner]

They hope by not discussing it, it will melt away with the rest of the spam.

Another spam:

So, who is REALLY increasing the emissions?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Bozo:

Have you any serious figures proving that, or it's just your assumption? AFAIK Kyoto treaty is in power just for few months.

Nice cartoons, that really advances the debate and clears the air. Thank you It took me a grand total of 10 minutes in google to find out that the EU is not in compliance with this meaningless protocol. If you truly care about the environment, I suggest to you that you stop looking for anti American cartoons, and start trying to find out why the EU fails to adhere to the protocol.

 

[E-Raser]

Another spam:


So, who is REALLY increasing the emissions?

Lithuania if I understand it right

 

[Winner]

Let's continue with "spam" graphs:

Well, I've seen better graphs, but these two shows a basic correlation between increased emissions of CO2 and rising tempereatures.

Yes, since the end of last Ice Age, the tempereatures are growing, but humans are speeding this process too much.

 

[Winner]

Nice cartoons, that really advances the debate and clears the air. Thank you It took me a grand total of 10 minutes in google to find out that the EU is not in compliance with this meaningless protocol. If you truly care about the environment, I suggest to you that you stop looking for anti American cartoons, and start trying to find out why the EU fails to adhere to the protocol.

That's cheap. I've found these cartoons while searching for other graphs, I've found the funny and related to the topic so I've posted them.

By the way, if it is so easy to find what you say, can you post some links? And please, no anti-european sites. Official data will be much appreciated

 

[Winner]

Lithuania if I understand it right

No, the other way round

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Everyone is in agreement that humans are negatively impacting the environment, and creating a potentially catastrophic rise in global temperature. The question is, what are ALL doing it about it? The answer is that NOBODY is doing ANYTHING except argue over meaningless agreements that cant even be described as half measures. The permanent and ongoing rise in oil prices will do much more to bring down emissions that Kyoto ever could.

 

[E-Raser]

Everyone is in agreement that humans are negatively impacting the environment, and creating a potentially catastrophic rise in global temperature. The question is, what are ALL doing it about it? The answer is that NOBODY is doing ANYTHING except argue over meaningless agreements that cant even be described as half measures. The permanent and ongoing rise in oil prices will do much more to bring down emissions that Kyoto ever could.

This I agree to. Nevertheless is Kyote at last an attemt to change something. For sure not sufficiant enough even but is that a reason to stay out. As I already said elsewhere, if USA isn't happy with it, why not show a better plan? I guess it would be very much welcome.
But concerning the ammounts of US emissions I think exspecially USA should show the wish to reduce for the better.
I honestly have not idea when ever so much harm was made to USA's reputation than during GWB's admin. Watched from outside the US it seems this guy is exactly searching for everything that may be used to spoil the impressions...

 

[Winner]

It was negotiated in Kyoto, Japan in December 1997, opened for signature on March 16, 1998, and closed on March 15, 1999. The agreement came into force on February 16, 2005 following ratification by Russia on November 18, 2004.

Position of the European Union
On May 31, 2002, all fifteen then-members of the European Union deposited the relevant ratification paperwork at the UN. The EU produces around 21% of global greenhouse gas emissions, and has agreed to a cut, on average, by 8% from 1990 emission levels. The EU has consistently been one of the major supporters of the Kyoto Protocol, negotiating hard to get wavering countries on board. In December, 2002, the EU created a system of emissions trading in an effort to meet these tough targets. Quotas were introduced in six key industries: energy, steel, cement, glass, brick making, and paper/cardboard. There are also fines for member nations that fail to meet their obligations, starting at €40/ton of carbon dioxide in 2005, and rising to €100/ton in 2008. Current EU projections suggest that by 2008 the EU will be at 4.7% below 1990 levels.

So Bozo, I am now expecting clear figures proving, that the EU isn't honoring the agreement.

And then, I'd like to know what you think about the figures I've posted, especially about US increasing of its emissions.

Anyway, I found it very hypocritic, if American point out on someone's other emissions increase, especially when this increase is much lower than that of United States.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

This I agree to. Nevertheless is Kyote at last an attemt to change something. For sure not sufficiant enough even but is that a reason to stay out. As I already said elsewhere, if USA isn't happy with it, why not show a better plan? I guess it would be very much welcome.
But concerning the ammounts of US emissions I think exspecially USA should show the wish to reduce for the better.
I honestly have not idea when ever so much harm was made to USA's reputation than during GWB's admin. Watched from outside the US it seems this guy is exactly searching for everything that may be used to spoil the impressions...

Eraser, as I said earlier, I believe the US should have signed the agreement for political reasons. Clearly, all you have to do is sign on, and thats it, youre officially a good guy. Whether or not you live up to the agreement is unimportant.

@Winner, google isnt my personal property. Youre just as able to find information there as I am. How about the link that I provided on the previous page, surely that doesnt count as an 'anti European' website Here it is again:

http://www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-141683-16&type=News