Been so long since I've tried this, so I continued the shadow. Won't continue into the actual war, but I do wonder: What's the approach here, do you build up a bunch of units beforehand, even if you can only produce axes, and do you whip out forges? What's a good/reasonable date for Engineering and the actual attack? Spoiler Turn 108 : Took a chance and went for Music, although Mansa could be teching it as well. Actually won, perhaps because he picked something else. Tried to trade sensibly and get gold when I could. Noticed Wang was teching Machinery, so when he got 230g failgold from HG, I gave him Machinery when he was 2-3 turns away. Also had some fortune with the barb city up north. Noticed some chariots and archers going up there, so I abandoned a city and took a combat axe up there. It had four archers... Very lucky, but I'll take it! A terrible city without food really, but it can grow to size 2 on the iron, and eventually work gold. It can stay size 2 forever. T108 Engineering is a bit later than Jarno due to the Vijay whip, but other than that things turned out okay I think. Accepted a MC demand from Shaka, I certainly didn't want to anger him. Turned it down from SB, and was able to beg soon after. Looked a little bleak getting Construction, but thankfully I could got it recently. Think it was from Wang actually (for MC), so he must have gone Machinery right after. Ragnar declared on Hammurabi 5 or so turns ago, so it would be great if that war lasts a bit and we can backstab Ragnar and steal his stuff. He's right in our face anyway. So far only Sitting Bull has Feudalism, but that's bound to change quickly now when approaching 1AD. It's upsetting how quickly Deity AI sometimes gets it. Like 800BC or sick stuff like that. Spoiler T108 situation : Sorry for the tilted screenshot, but it was the best way to show the so-called empire in one shot. Yeah, micro in pig city is a mess, but I played a bit quick and dirty here. Off to a birthday party soon. I'm intrigued to see how @Jarno plays this, and the situation in your game, not least diplomatically, if some war breaks out between AIs that you can take advantage of.