Let's Talk About College

[GhostWriter16]

First off though, this thread, while I'm STARTING it as a personal thread, is open to anyone who wants to go to college and wants advice to ask their own questions, this thread isn't about me. While it will probably end up being primarily about me at first, anyone else can ask questions about their own situations, with some rules:

1. NO Politics. Everything in OT ends up about politics almost. This will not be the case here. This is to discuss college, not politics.

2. Ditto with religion.

3. This is an RD thread. Please be respectful.

4. While anyone can answer, if someone who's "Kinda in the same boat as me, but happens to know a bit more" I'd appreciate if they'd say so. If you happen to be an expert on education, say so. It doesn't matter too much, since I'm not planning to use CFC as my place to go for advice. I'm just curious what I'll hear on here, and what some of the more knowledgable posters can tell me (And everyone else, but to lesser degrees)

Now, here's my situation:

I was homeschooled through ninth and tenth grade, so I am a bit behind on classes, but I will be able to catch up. I'm a very solid history student (I'm in AP and getting A's and B's) a decent English and Science student (Probably low B's generally) and a pretty poor Math student (I had to move into the two-year trig class so I could keep up, and if I can get C's in that class I'll be happy, though I'll certainly try for as well as possible). If it makes any difference, I have A's in Spanish as well, though as an 11th grader in Spanish 1 (I didn't do it in homeschool, for various reasons) I really should be getting grades like that

Questions:

1. Is AP History making me more likely to get a Scholarship? (Presumably yes.) And how much so?

2. To get into a decent college (Not some kind of Ivy League school, but somewhere I can get a decent education) about what kind of grades do I need, at minimum? What about for a scholarship at said colleges?

3. I've been considering perhaps taking an Honors science next year (Definitely NOT an honors Math, Regents is tough enough there) and how much would doing so help me? With my grades as I said above, would it be worth it or good for me to do so?

4. Assuming I'm going to do only the Minimum amount of Math that I have too in college (I'm going to go for a degree in creative writing, history or law) how difficult would college Math be?

5. And with the above, can I at least dabble in all three of those (Presumably, I'd want to minor in creative writing as I don't want to make a career out of it, get a Bachelor's in History, and a Master's in Law, or something along those lines, how this all works is something that I want to know) could I do so in 6-8 years? (Keep in mind I'm probably taking 2 college level histories next year as well.)

6. Any other random information you think I should know?

 

[cardgame]

You should have at least a 2.5 GPA to get into a decent college. For a good college, at least 3.0. For scholarships you'll want to have 3.5 or greater.

Weighted classes will increase your GPA quite considerably if you do well in them, so if you think you are capable of the workload, go for it. If you don't think you can do well, don't take it (based solely on GPA, not educational aspects of this)

 

[Archbob]

1. Depends on your school. Having AP classes may get you academic scholarships into so-so colleges but its almost a requirement for admission into top universities. How much also depends on the college. I took and passed 14 AP tests in High School and it got me full ride and stipend at any state school but I went out of state so I didn't get any scholarships. I had a 4.3 GPA(weighted) or a 3.8(Non-weighted) and I got into U of I champagne engineering(where I eventually went), University of Michighan, every Missouri state school(with full ride), but I still didn't get into standford. I wouldn't even try for a top 15 university without at least a 3.5 GPA or top 10% in graduating class.

2. Good colleges mainly base scholarships on financial need, not academic merit. If your family's is middle-class or above, you won't get much

3. Honors and AP are both advantages, especially if you want to get into a top-notch college. Most people applying to somewhere like Princeton/MIT/etc have a considerable amount of honors and AP courses.

4. You may not have to take math in college at all or just basic calculus. College courses are considerably harder than HS ones.

5. You should AIM for 7 years total if you want to get a J.D. and practice law. I think most people who get into law school some decent math courses and logic courses under their belt.

 

[nonconformist]

Yeah, if you're doing a science, you won't need "basic maths", you'll need calculus, trig, and a hefty dose of algebra. Nevermind a god awful amount of stats.

 

[Silurian]

Why in the US are you measured by your average score not your best. GPA?

 

[Archbob]

Why in the US are you measured by your average score not your best. GPA?

It shows your ability to maintain a consistent performance.

 

[carmen510]

Why in the US are you measured by your average score not your best. GPA?

Because having an A+ in 8th grade math or AP US History does not compensate for getting a C- in AB Calculus.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You should have at least a 2.5 GPA to get into a decent college. For a good college, at least 3.0. For scholarships you'll want to have 3.5 or greater.

I'm not a math whiz, so what do those numbers translate roughly to as far as percentage grades?

Weighted classes will increase your GPA quite considerably if you do well in them, so if you think you are capable of the workload, go for it. If you don't think you can do well, don't take it (based solely on GPA, not educational aspects of this)

AP is weighted 1.18 where I'm at, but according to my teacher the weighting only affects class rank and not what grade your college gets, so I'm not sure.

AP History is definitely my strong point, my first quiz was a 78 percent unweighted but all other ones have been upper B's-lower A's.

If anyone knows, how much harder is Honors Chemistry when compared to Regents Chemistry? (For non-NYS residents, Regents is the "Normal" difficulty of classes, Honors is a step above, but still High School, and AP is college level.)

1. Depends on your school. Having AP classes may get you academic scholarships into so-so colleges but its almost a requirement for admission into top universities. How much also depends on the college. I took and passed 14 AP tests in High School and it got me full ride and stipend at any state school but I went out of state so I didn't get any scholarships. I had a 4.3 GPA(weighted) or a 3.8(Non-weighted) and I got into U of I champagne engineering(where I eventually went), University of Michighan, every Missouri state school(with full ride), but I still didn't get into standford. I wouldn't even try for a top 15 university without at least a 3.5 GPA or top 10% in graduating class.

I'd like to get into a good college, but I know I'm not good enough to get into Harvard or the like! I'd prefer to go to a place that would take a "4" or "5" at least on the AP-exam as good enough for college credit (So I don't have to pay for the classes again, I know some schools will take a "3" but I'm fairly sure I can do better than that)

2. Good colleges mainly base scholarships on financial need, not academic merit. If your family's is middle-class or above, you won't get much

Not sure how "Middle-class" is defined, but I'm kinda in a situation where my parents COULD pay for my college, and are willing to do so, but it would be a strong financial burden. IIRC my parents made like 25,000 a couple years ago, did better last year. I'd say we're on the lower end of middle class.

3. Honors and AP are both advantages, especially if you want to get into a top-notch college. Most people applying to somewhere like Princeton/MIT/etc have a considerable amount of honors and AP courses.

Unfortunately, my options in 9th and 10th grade were somewhat limited, but I plan to take 2 college histories in 12th grade if possible, I'm currently in BOCES though I may forgo the second year to try to go for an Advanced Diploma, and I'm currently not in any other Honors courses, though I'd like to add another one (Either AP English, Honors Chem, or both) next year.

4. You may not have to take math in college at all or just basic calculus. College courses are considerably harder than HS ones.

I'd like to avoid Calculus like the plague if I can, as I said I find Triginometry quite difficult already, and at the start of this year I was in it, but I switched to Trig A (The first part of a two-year trig course) because I was struggling. Considering how this will probably improve my grade (Not giving further details YET), was this a good move?

5. You should AIM for 7 years total if you want to get a J.D. and practice law. I think most people who get into law school some decent math courses and logic courses under their belt.

I plan to be a Prosecutor in Criminal law, so I don't foresee a huge need for Math (My only other major consideration for a career choice is to teach History at a High School or college level). I am prepared to do what I need too to get through college, but I'd prefer not to take extremely difficult Math (Such as Calculus) if I can avoid it.*

*Also, I'd rather not hear "Calculus isn't difficult" unless for some whacked reason its easier than trig. I struggled in Trigonometry. I'm a decent student, but not in Math, beyond my awesome ability to do stuff in my head.

Because having an A+ in 8th grade math or AP US History does not compensate for getting a C- in AB Calculus.

Well, its averaged, so in some sense it does. And if you're getting a C- in an AP course (Calculus is an AP course, at least in NYS it is) you probably aren't doing too bad, especially if its an AP MATH course (I know far less people who are good at math than that are good at History.)

 

[nonconformist]

Like I said, if you can't do calculus (which is a fair bit harder than trig) then don't even attempt to study science.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Like I said, if you can't do calculus (which is a fair bit harder than trig) then don't even attempt to study science.

Law or History is science?

I don't plan to go for a Science degree. Unless Law IS science somehow

 

[carmen510]

Well, its averaged, so in some sense it does. And if you're getting a C- in an AP course (Calculus is an AP course, at least in NYS it is) you probably aren't doing too bad, especially if its an AP MATH course (I know far less people who are good at math than that are good at History.)

Not really. Colleges are looking for your most recent performance, followed closely by how well you did overall during your entire high school term. They aren't likely to care about how well you did in math 4 years ago.

On a side note, I have the exact opposite situation. In my humanities-oriented NYC school (50~% Asian, 35-40% white), there are far more people who are good at math and science than those who are good in history or the social sciences.

As another side note, a Prosecutor in Criminal Law might benefit from knowing a little bit of statistics and probability. (See: Prosecutor's fallacy)

 

[GhostWriter16]

Not really. Colleges are looking for your most recent performance, followed closely by how well you did overall during your entire high school term. They aren't likely to care about how well you did in math 4 years ago.

8th Grade Math? I was thinking of AP US (Which I'm taking this year, 11th grade.) That's true that 8th grade math doesn't mean much for a scholarship.

That said, does taking hard classes in senior year make any difference? And does this vary based on whether you have a gap year (Where you work or do something else) or not?

As a side note, a Prosecutor in Criminal Law might benefit from knowing a little bit of statistics and probability. (See: Prosecutor's fallacy)

I know I need stats I am more wondering if I need Calculus or any other very hard math

 

[Integral]

1. Is AP History making me more likely to get a Scholarship? (Presumably yes.) And how much so?

Depends on the college and what grades you get.

2. To get into a decent college (Not some kind of Ivy League school, but somewhere I can get a decent education) about what kind of grades do I need, at minimum? What about for a scholarship at said colleges?

You really, really want a 3.0+. You really want a 3.5+.

3. I've been considering perhaps taking an Honors science next year (Definitely NOT an honors Math, Regents is tough enough there) and how much would doing so help me? With my grades as I said above, would it be worth it or good for me to do so?

Honors physics is going to require, at minimum, good trig and algebra skills. Chemistry a bit less so, and biology considerably less so. This was my experience.

Honors classes are always good if you think you can get a good grade. "Good" means "B+, A-, or A", by which I mean "A- or A".

4. Assuming I'm going to do only the Minimum amount of Math that I have too in college (I'm going to go for a degree in creative writing, history or law) how difficult would college Math be?

This is a bad idea. Take math. It's strength-training for the brain. If you can't handle math, take philosophy. If you do it right, it's like math, but with more words and fewer symbols. Take formal logic. In some colleges, a logic course will satisfy the "math" requirement.

If you just want to do the bare minimum, it depends on the school. Top-30 schools will require you to take one semester of calculus. Other schools won't even require that. A barebones course in probability and statistics will probably fit the bill.

5. And with the above, can I at least dabble in all three of those (Presumably, I'd want to minor in creative writing as I don't want to make a career out of it, get a Bachelor's in History, and a Master's in Law, or something along those lines, how this all works is something that I want to know) could I do so in 6-8 years? (Keep in mind I'm probably taking 2 college level histories next year as well.)

You could get a BA History with a minor in Writing in 4 years.
Law school is 3 years.

--

Your overall GPA matters and your Junior/Senior year GPA matters a bit more so.

--

To get into law school, you will need some serious practice in critical thinking and logic. Not a dig on you, that's just what law school requires. There are two good ways to get practice in argumentation: philosophy and math. For you, that means philosophy. Take the "formal logic" class in the college's philosophy department.

The formal requirements for "getting into law school" are vague. (Unlike medicine, which entails a quite specific undergraduate program.) Take economics. Take philosophy, particularly logic. Take history. Take some math.

Disclosure: I was a math major. I have my biases.

 

[nonconformist]

Law or History is science?

I don't plan to go for a Science degree. Unless Law IS science somehow

You said you were gonna do honours science.

@Integral: you will need a significant amount of algebra for chemistry; there's a fair few equations you need.

Calculus can be fairly critical too, especially when you're looking at rates.

 

[Integral]

You said you were gonna do honours science.

@Integral: you will need a significant amount of algebra for chemistry; there's a fair few equations you need.

Calculus can be fairly critical too, especially when you're looking at rates.

Thanks. I did pure math in college, which didn't require any science corequisites; my formal exposure to "real" chemistry and biology is quite limited.

I should probably fill that gap in my general knowledge base at some point.

 

[Verarde]

You really, really want a 3.0+. You really want a 3.5+.

Well, that assures me for now.

 

[_random_]

Law or History is science?

I don't plan to go for a Science degree. Unless Law IS science somehow

I believe studies show that physics majors tend to do the best on the LSAT. I'm in the same boat as you as far as math and the strong possibility of attempting to become a lawyer are concerned, so I doubt I'll go that route, but it's worth pointing out. Here is a list if you're interested.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I plan on going into history, sadly that means I will have few job opportunities.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Depends on the college and what grades you get.

Thanks

You really, really want a 3.0+. You really want a 3.5+.

What's a 3.0 in numerical grade? And what's a 3.5 in numerical grade? (Approximate values are fine.)

Honors physics is going to require, at minimum, good trig and algebra skills. Chemistry a bit less so, and biology considerably less so. This was my experience.

I'm not taking ANY physics in High School, or ever unless its required for some reason. I took the first month of chem this year (I didn't switch because it was difficult, but because I needed to to switch my trig class) and the math was fairly easy, really just stuff you could understand in Algebra I. I was fine in Algebra I, and I have no qualms about doing that difficulty of Math.

Honors classes are always good if you think you can get a good grade. "Good" means "B+, A-, or A", by which I mean "A- or A".

Hmmm... I had roughly a grade in the lower 80s when I started Regents chem last year, but we also hadn't gotten far into it, and I did make some stupid errors. If I tried really hard and did all the work (I did most of it that first month but missed like one homework and had one lab a day late which knocked down 5pts) I could probably make at least an 85 in an Honors class, as long as it wasn't considerably harder than the regents class.

This is a bad idea. Take math. It's strength-training for the brain. If you can't handle math, take philosophy.

Philosophy would probably be better. And yeah, I can't handle very complicated math. I just can't retain it. Not sure why considering I remember nearly every history fact I read, but I can't.

If you do it right, it's like math, but with more words and fewer symbols. Take formal logic. In some colleges, a logic course will satisfy the "math" requirement.

I could probably handle logic as well, as I am good at logical thinking. I'm bad at understanding and retaining formulas.

If you just want to do the bare minimum, it depends on the school. Top-30 schools will require you to take one semester of calculus. Other schools won't even require that. A barebones course in probability and statistics will probably fit the bill.

I'll probably go to a school that requires just the stats.

You could get a BA History with a minor in Writing in 4 years.
Law school is 3 years.

That's probably how I want to go, which also leaves me the option of falling back on teaching history if I can't get a job as a lawyer for some reason.

I want the writing mostly for recreation, though hopefully I'll be published eventually.)

Your overall GPA matters and your Junior/Senior year GPA matters a bit more so.

Thanks

To get into law school, you will need some serious practice in critical thinking and logic. Not a dig on you, that's just what law school requires. There are two good ways to get practice in argumentation: philosophy and math. For you, that means philosophy. Take the "formal logic" class in the college's philosophy department.

Philosophy is what I'll probably do.

Also, while I don't claim I don't have work still to do, I'm pretty good as a logical thinker. Remember, I figured out many problems in Algebra I using logic, not formulas. Its the formula part of math I'm bad at. That and not making errors

The formal requirements for "getting into law school" are vague. (Unlike medicine, which entails a quite specific undergraduate program.) Take economics. Take philosophy, particularly logic. Take history. Take some math.

Disclosure: I was a math major. I have my biases.

I want to take economics next year, as well as a regular AP History class. Math... I'll do the best I can on

Thanks for the rather specific advice

You said you were gonna do honours science.

@Integral: you will need a significant amount of algebra for chemistry; there's a fair few equations you need.

Calculus can be fairly critical too, especially when you're looking at rates.

In high school? I don't need a freaking AP Math class to do honors chemistry.

I don't plan to go very far in college science

 

[nonconformist]

If your high school is anything like mine, knowledge of rearrangements etc. as well as a fair bit of differentiation (probably not integration though) would be helpful, especially with regards to Arrhenius equations etc.