Ley Lines - a Path to God?

ah, so glad you asked :)

The hammered bracelet - the firmament, Heaven, the crossing place where God encountered the dark, water covered proto-Earth and said let there be light and where Marduk slew Tiamat and set half her corpse up as a screen to divide the waters (planets). The asteroid belt is the approximate perihelion of Nibiru, the planet of God.

Check out the 9 Mile Canyon glyph, the horned deity 6th in line from the 'creator' is now the asteroid belt/heaven and her/his remains were pushed closer to the sun past Mars and is now the 7th planet from the creator.
 
Woolworths didn't plop stores down randomly, they chose existing towns... Towns that might have been built along ley lines. The 6 center stores look a bit like 2 versions of Orion's Belt ;). We find the same configuration with the main pyramids at Gizeh and Teotihuacan.

But using points that far apart from the center with nothing in between wouldn't impress me nearly as much as the lines of towns with related names at that link. The French map shows 12 towns with Calais in the northwest and Calesi and Cales in Italy.

Washington DC was laid out by a Mason using their symbolism, I'm sure the Templars and Druids etc were involved in deciding what sites would be considered sacred and what structures were needed to commemorate them.

Given mankind's proclivity for superimposing what we saw in the sky onto the ground I believe they would have recorded the celestial lord's path of righteousness. I'd expect the constellations it rose and set in would be mythologized too.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_cygnus02.htm

If a planet with an inclined orbit rose in the SE and set in the NW, maybe Cygnus the Swan is involved. Could be the constellation providing the background when that planet set or faded from sight.
Wow. Alrighty. I'll leave you to it.
 
I remember when reading one of Charles C. Mann's books (I forget if it was in 1491 or 1493) he mentioned going on a tour of a certain holy site in the Andes (I forget if it was Incan or pre-Incan) where the tour guides mentioned how it and many other monuments were carefully aligned to celestial objects and ley lines. However, when he pressed even slightly, they admitted that they are only oriented that way now because someone in the mid 20th century moved them into such an alignment hoping it would help sell more tickets. There was no evidence that they were meant to be aligned with anything special when they were first built.
 
including the Nasca lines?

I was under the impression Cusco has an extensive ley line configuration tied into their cosmology
 
How can anything rise in the south east and set in the north west? Unless it's moving so fast that it can move tens of degrees across the sky (relative to the background stars) in a 12 hour period that's not going to happen. Nothing that isn't very close to the Earth is going to be doing that.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_line

Ley lines (/leɪ laɪnz/) refer to straight alignments drawn between various historic structures and prominent landmarks. The idea was developed in early 20th-century Europe, with ley line believers arguing that these alignments were recognised by ancient European societies which deliberately erected structures along them. Since the 1960s, members of the Earth Mysteries movement and other esoteric traditions have commonly believed that such ley lines demarcate "earth energies" and serve as guides for alien spacecraft. Archaeologists and scientists regard ley lines as an example of pseudo-archaeology and pseudo-science.

The idea of "leys" as straight tracks across the landscape was put forward by the English antiquarian Alfred Watkins in the 1920s, particularly in his book The Old Straight Track. He argued that straight lines could be drawn between various historic structures and that these represented trade routes created by ancient British societies. Although he gained a small following, Watkins' ideas were never accepted by the British archaeological establishment, a fact that frustrated him. His critics noted that his ideas relied on drawing lines between sites established at different periods of the past. They also argued that in prehistory, as in the present, it was impractical to travel in a straight line across hilly or mountainous areas of Britain, rendering his leys unlikely as trade routes. Independently of Watkins' ideas, a similar notion—that of Heilige Linien ('holy lines')—was raised in 1920s Germany. It was later endorsed by various Nazis.

During the 1960s, Watkins' ideas were revived in altered form by British proponents of the countercultural Earth Mysteries movement. In 1961, Tony Wedd put forward the belief that leys were established by prehistoric communities to guide alien spacecraft. This view was promoted to a wider audience in the books of John Michell, particularly his 1969 work The View Over Atlantis. Michell's publications were accompanied by the launch of the Ley Hunter magazine and the appearance of a ley hunter community keen to identify ley lines across the British landscape. Ley hunters often combined their search for ley lines with other esoteric practices like dowsing and numerology and with a belief in a forthcoming Age of Aquarius that would transform human society. Although often hostile to archaeologists, some ley hunters attempted to ascertain scientific evidence for their belief in earth energies at prehistoric sites, evidence they could not obtain. Following sustained archaeological criticism, the ley hunter community dissipated in the 1990s, with several of its key proponents abandoning the idea and moving into the study of landscape archaeology and folkloristics. Belief in ley lines nevertheless remains common among some esoteric religious groups, such as forms of modern Paganism, in both Europe and North America.

Archaeologists note that there is no evidence that ley lines were a recognised phenomenon among ancient European societies and that attempts to draw them typically rely on linking together structures that were built in different historical periods. Archaeologists and statisticians have demonstrated that a random distribution of a sufficient number of points on a plane will inevitably create alignments of random points purely by chance. Skeptics have also stressed that the esoteric idea of earth energies running through ley lines has not been scientifically verified, remaining an article of faith for its believers.
 
Maybe some ley lines were created by descendants of the people building the Tower of Babel. If God came down and scattered a city's population to thwart their future cooperation, they might have had a desire to never get lost again and ley lines help. I spoke with a Ponca woman at KU and she told me her people and their dogs were brought here by the gods on large white birds. Some peoples - the Aztecs for one - have legends about emerging from cave systems.

How can anything rise in the south east and set in the north west? Unless it's moving so fast that it can move tens of degrees across the sky (relative to the background stars) in a 12 hour period that's not going to happen. Nothing that isn't very close to the Earth is going to be doing that.

Yeah, I screwed that up... I meant a 'star' rising in the SE on an inclined orbit would eventually travel from below to above the ecliptic plane thereby setting in the NW. That would lead people to chart its course over time but the initial rising and last location would be of greater relevance. So where was the star first seen and last seen. For people closer to the poles this object might have become circumpolar, for many people the heavenly abode of God is found in the north.
 
I don't find this a very convincing argument. Even accepting this purely hypothetical object to exist, you would still have something in the sky that initially rises in the SE and sets in the SW, and gradually shifts up the sky over time until it is rising in the NE and setting in the NW. It doesn't seem immediately intuitive that this would be commemorated by building something that is oriented from the SE to the NW. That just seems as if it would be a very odd choice.
 
People charted the sun's travel for various reasons but the solstices and equinoxes were commemorated as special events. The equinoxes wouldn't matter for an object like this though, just where it was seen first and where it was seen last. People would think if it returns those points would be important to keep an eye on. The constellations providing the background for the object when it was first and last seen would become relevant to the myth too.
 
But why would it be any more likely to be last seen as it sets, rather than as it rises? It's gradually getting fainter and fainter, so there isn't going to be some magic day when it's clearly seen setting one evening, then fails to rise the next night. At best it's going to be barely visible the last time it sets, but it could also be barely visible the last time it rises, and disappear at some point during the night before it sets. More likely it's going to be so gradual that there isn't even a definite moment where it stops being seen.

Equinoxes on the other hand are special because that's when the brightest object in the sky, which is always visible and dictates daily routine, rises and sets directly east-west. It's something that does actually have some obvious significance.
 
Thats possible, there's a ~50/50 chance it'll disappear during the day and not be seen rising the next night and a chance it'll fade during the night journey across the sky, but when it does finally disappear from the best eyes in the community its first rising and last setting are locations in need of a marker. We do that now with long term comets and interstellar visitors, the one that recently sailed thru the solar system shaped like a cigar was recorded at first and last glimpse.
 
But you just admitted that first and last seen don't necessarily correlate with rising and setting... yet you're so saying they 'need' to be marked in this way. Why does it need to be marked at all? And we do this with comets now?! Are you sure about that?
 
Patterns found in random events have been used to hoodwink people for ages.
 
But you just admitted that first and last seen don't necessarily correlate with rising and setting... yet you're so saying they 'need' to be marked in this way. Why does it need to be marked at all? And we do this with comets now?! Are you sure about that?

If you saw a new light in the sky and wasn't sure where it rose first, you would mark its setting and watch the next night for the light to rise. Both points would be marked, but the first rising and last setting would have alignments because thats where it arrived and left, the path of God. The few sighting holes I've seen were pointed above the horizon but the numerous henges or (medicine) wheels like the one atop Bighorn Mtn in Wyoming are smaller ley lines.

Why go thru the hassle? People wanted to know the ways of Heaven. We dont go out in a field and line stones to point at a comet's rising, but we do measure its orbit and that includes inclination. The ley lines in France form an angle with an E-W line crossing a NW-SE line, the angle looks to be in the 45-55 degree range. A large object with an inclination like that on a highly elliptical orbit taking a few thousand years might explain why the solar system is tilted.
 
If you saw a new light in the sky and wasn't sure where it rose first, you would mark its setting and watch the next night for the light to rise. Both points would be marked, but the first rising and last setting would have alignments because thats where it arrived and left

But as I've said, and you agreed to, it first becoming visible, and last remaining visible, would not necessarily coincide with a rising and a setting. And the progress would likely last weeks or months at least, with it slowly moving northwards in the sky, basically describing a tightly wound spiral. I still don't see why you think the SE and NW points of this would be so important as to require marking out, since it's not actually making any nice direct path between these points at all.

the path of God.

And I certainly don't see the argument behind this thing being linked directly with "god".

I don't even know what the rest of your post means.
 
The actual concept of ‘ley lines’ comes from gross eisegesis:

Spoiler :
Ley lines (/leɪ laɪnz/) refer to straight alignments drawn between various historic structures and prominent landmarks. The idea was developed in early 20th-century Europe, with ley line believers arguing that these alignments were recognised by ancient European societies which deliberately erected structures along them. Since the 1960s, members of the Earth Mysteries movement and other esoteric traditions have commonly believed that such ley lines demarcate "earth energies" and serve as guides for alien spacecraft. Archaeologists and scientists regard ley lines as an example of pseudo-archaeology and pseudo-science.

The idea of "leys" as straight tracks across the landscape was put forward by the English antiquarian Alfred Watkins in the 1920s, particularly in his book The Old Straight Track. He argued that straight lines could be drawn between various historic structures and that these represented trade routes created by ancient British societies. Although he gained a small following, Watkins' ideas were never accepted by the British archaeological establishment, a fact that frustrated him. His critics noted that his ideas relied on drawing lines between sites established at different periods of the past. They also argued that in prehistory, as in the present, it was impractical to travel in a straight line across hilly or mountainous areas of Britain, rendering his leys unlikely as trade routes. Independently of Watkins' ideas, a similar notion—that of Heilige Linien ('holy lines')—was raised in 1920s Germany. It was later endorsed by various Nazis.

During the 1960s, Watkins' ideas were revived in altered form by British proponents of the countercultural Earth Mysteries movement. In 1961, Tony Wedd put forward the belief that leys were established by prehistoric communities to guide alien spacecraft. This view was promoted to a wider audience in the books of John Michell, particularly his 1969 work The View Over Atlantis. Michell's publications were accompanied by the launch of the Ley Hunter magazine and the appearance of a ley hunter community keen to identify ley lines across the British landscape. Ley hunters often combined their search for ley lines with other esoteric practices like dowsing and numerology and with a belief in a forthcoming Age of Aquarius that would transform human society. Although often hostile to archaeologists, some ley hunters attempted to ascertain scientific evidence for their belief in earth energies at prehistoric sites, evidence they could not obtain. Following sustained archaeological criticism, the ley hunter community dissipated in the 1990s, with several of its key proponents abandoning the idea and moving into the study of landscape archaeology and folkloristics. Belief in ley lines nevertheless remains common among some esoteric religious groups, such as forms of modern Paganism, in both Europe and North America.

Archaeologists note that there is no evidence that ley lines were a recognised phenomenon among ancient European societies and that attempts to draw them typically rely on linking together structures that were built in different historical periods. Archaeologists and statisticians have demonstrated that a random distribution of a sufficient number of points on a plane will inevitably create alignments of random points purely by chance. Skeptics have also stressed that the esoteric idea of earth energies running through ley lines has not been scientifically verified, remaining an article of faith for its believers.

(…)

Ley lines have been characterised as a form of pseudoscience. On The Skeptic's Dictionary, the American philosopher and skeptic Robert Todd Carroll noted that none of the claims about magnetic forces underpinning putative ley lines have been scientifically verified.

Williamson and Bellamy characterised ley lines as "one of the biggest red herrings in the history of popular thought". One criticism of Watkins' ley line theory states that given the high density of historic and prehistoric sites in Britain and other parts of Europe, finding straight lines that "connect" sites is trivial and ascribable to coincidence. Johnson stated that "ley lines do not exist." He cited Williamson and Bellamy's work in demonstrating this, noting that their research showed how "the density of archaeological sites in the British landscape is so great that a line drawn through virtually anywhere will 'clip' a number of sites."

A study by David George Kendall used the techniques of shape analysis to examine the triangles formed by standing stones to deduce if these were often arranged in straight lines. The shape of a triangle can be represented as a point on the sphere, and the distribution of all shapes can be thought of as a distribution over the sphere. The sample distribution from the standing stones was compared with the theoretical distribution to show that the occurrence of straight lines was no more than average.

The archaeologist Richard Atkinson once demonstrated this by taking the positions of telephone boxes and pointing out the existence of "telephone box leys". This, he argued, showed that the mere existence of such lines in a set of points does not prove that the lines are deliberate artefacts, especially since it is known that telephone boxes were not laid out in any such manner or with any such intention.

In 2004, John Bruno Hare wrote:

Watkins never attributed any supernatural significance to leys; he believed that they were simply pathways that had been used for trade or ceremonial purposes, very ancient in origin, possibly dating back to the Neolithic, certainly pre-Roman. His obsession with leys was a natural outgrowth of his interest in landscape photography and love of the British countryside. He was an intensely rational person with an active intellect, and I think he would be a bit disappointed with some of the fringe aspects of ley lines today.


Or, as TVTropes puts it, in rather plainer language:

These things were first described by archaeologist Alfred Watkins in his 1925 book The Old Straight Track. He claimed that in ancient times when Britain was very densely forested, people built roads in geographically convenient straight lines. He believed that the lines had been called "leys" because so many of them passed through towns with "ley" in their name. He would later claim that these "ley lines" existed in many countries all over the world, especially in Europe. His theories were generally dismissed by his peers, however.

Then wacky occultists heard about it, and decided that they must be magical.

Now ley lines (sometimes written as leylines) are hypothetical alignments between places of power, which may be magical, magnetic, or psychic in nature. These places of power are where two or more ley lines cross and are often known as Ley Nodes, Nodes, or Nexuses. Nodes are often regarded as spooky or unearthly. Stonehenge is said to be built on one such intersection.

They are often invisible conduits of magical power that flow through the earth and air. Mages can tap into them to gain their powers. Places where multiple lines intersect at nodes attracts wizards and other supernatural beings like moths to a flame.

In reality, there are MANY English villages and towns that end in the syllable "-ley". So it isn't surprising that any line drawn on a map would fall close to at least one such place. The Anglo-Saxons were in the habit of building their villages in forest clearings. "Ley" is simply the Old English word for a forest clearing, which is why so many places end in the syllable "-ley".​
 
But as I've said, and you agreed to, it first becoming visible, and last remaining visible, would not necessarily coincide with a rising and a setting. And the progress would likely last weeks or months at least, with it slowly moving northwards in the sky, basically describing a tightly wound spiral. I still don't see why you think the SE and NW points of this would be so important as to require marking out, since it's not actually making any nice direct path between these points at all.

And I certainly don't see the argument behind this thing being linked directly with "god".

I don't even know what the rest of your post means.

It doesn't matter if the object faded from view during the night, the first and last time it was seen (and its constellation) would matter to ancient peoples along with the first and last time it rose and set. Given the object's inclined orbit this would make it unique among the 'gods', the others roughly follow the ecliptic each night.

Many/most people would have seen it rise and set for its journey across the ecliptic, it would literally ascend the other gods. But for people closer to the poles it either started or ended its path circumpolar. That gets into the mythology about the west being the land of the dead as the celestial gods sink below the horizon to be resurrected in the east the next night.

Circumpolar objects dont 'die', but if one faded from view that location would still become a gateway to God, the window by which he left. If Cygnus the Swan and beliefs about souls ascending to the north are related to this object, maybe its because thats the constellation it disappeared into the last time through the solar system.

Myths all over the world describe "God" as coming and going, arriving and leaving. God can be seen but then disappears with the promise of a return. Most of the non-monotheistic religions viewed the planets as gods, this planet that comes and goes was above them all. And if there is debris following a similar orbit (like Jupiter's Trojans), small asteroids, comets, then maybe the risk of impacts and airbursts increases.

The Enuma Elish describes the creation of Heaven and Earth, a dark, water covered primordial planet was split in two by something on an elliptical orbit. It claims Marduk was clothed with the halo of 10 gods before Heaven and Earth were made and he was born in deep space beyond the other gods. Both the Inca and the Fremont Indians of Utah and cultures in between describe the 'creator' as having a dual nature occupying 2 levels in Heaven. A Heaven comprised of 12 gods... That may be why Ptolemy's 'universe' had 12 levels even though people couldn't see the outermost planets.

@Takhisis

His critics noted that his ideas relied on drawing lines between sites established at different periods of the past. They also argued that in prehistory, as in the present, it was impractical to travel in a straight line across hilly or mountainous areas of Britain, rendering his leys unlikely as trade routes.

Archaeologists note that there is no evidence that ley lines were a recognised phenomenon among ancient European societies and that attempts to draw them typically rely on linking together structures that were built in different historical periods.

When people saw this planet they didn't rush out and build towns along a ley line, maybe markers were laid down for future use so people could walk in God's path and towns eventually built up around pilgrimage sites. Ley lines for astronomical reasons dont care about terrain, but I can see the spiritual reasons for following the path if possible regardless of terrain.

One criticism of Watkins' ley line theory states that given the high density of historic and prehistoric sites in Britain and other parts of Europe, finding straight lines that "connect" sites is trivial and ascribable to coincidence. Johnson stated that "ley lines do not exist." He cited Williamson and Bellamy's work in demonstrating this, noting that their research showed how "the density of archaeological sites in the British landscape is so great that a line drawn through virtually anywhere will 'clip' a number of sites."

Was that true for the 4 Viking settlements in the OP link? Did any of these critics actually do a study of European sites to show this randomness? Judging by the 2 ley lines in Denmark and France they could be pointing at the same thing, the Denmark line looks even more inclined than the French line which is what I would expect given the difference in latitude.
 
It doesn't matter if the object faded from view during the night, the first and last time it was seen (and its constellation) would matter to ancient peoples along with the first and last time it rose and set.

You're not giving a convincing argument as to why. The first rising and last setting positions do not seem as though they would be uniquely relevant for this type of phenomenon. Any more so than (say) the first setting and last rising. I still don't agree there would be any definite first and last anyway for something that's changing apparent brightness quite slowly. I agree that the constellations the planet was seen in would be more relevant though, but this has nothing to do with your SE-NW thing at all.

Given the object's inclined orbit this would make it unique among the 'gods', the others roughly follow the ecliptic each night.

It would make it more like a comet, as I said before. I don't think it would have been associated with the other planets.

Many/most people would have seen it rise and set for its journey across the ecliptic, it would literally ascend the other gods.

Well... this entirely hypothetical object would certainly have gone northwards of the other planets in the sky, but north isn't necessarily synonymous with "up". It's a convention that we hold to these days, but there are plenty of old maps (and not as old as you're talking) where north is at the bottom of the map.

But for people closer to the poles it either started or ended its path circumpolar. That gets into the mythology about the west being the land of the dead as the celestial gods sink below the horizon to be resurrected in the east the next night.

Everything sets in the west and rises in the east. What has that got to do with this planet particularly?

Circumpolar objects dont 'die', but if one faded from view that location would still become a gateway to God, the window by which he left.

You were talking about its last setting location being commemorated. Now it's circumpolar when it fades. Which is it?

If Cygnus the Swan and beliefs about souls ascending to the north are related to this object, maybe its because thats the constellation it disappeared into the last time through the solar system.

Why would they be related to this object? As far as I can tell you've invented an entirely hypothetical object to explain away a SE to NW geographical alignment. You're now fudging the same hypothetical object to explain something completely different, which now requires it to be going circumpolar when it previously wasn't. This is the most tenuous thing I've ever heard.

Sorry, I gave up reading any more as... what's the point. You don't make sense or give any sound reasoning for anything.
 
Circumpolar objects dont 'die', but if one faded from view that location would still become a gateway to God, the window by which he left. If Cygnus the Swan and beliefs about souls ascending to the north are related to this object, maybe its because thats the constellation it disappeared into the last time through the solar system.
Whatever this word salad means, here's some fun, scientific facts about Deneb, the brightest star in Cygnus: Deneb.

Deneb is a blue-white supergiant. It's going to be the pole star in several thousand years. And some day it's going to go BOOM! as a supernova.

Constellations are not static. The stars travel around the galaxy according to their own orbits, and many aren't anywhere near each other. The shapes of the constellations change, and some day we won't even recognize the current ones.
 
You're not giving a convincing argument as to why. The first rising and last setting positions do not seem as though they would be uniquely relevant for this type of phenomenon. Any more so than (say) the first setting and last rising. I still don't agree there would be any definite first and last anyway for something that's changing apparent brightness quite slowly. I agree that the constellations the planet was seen in would be more relevant though, but this has nothing to do with your SE-NW thing at all.

The Fremont panel and Incan cosmos (just to name 2) provide clues to the nature of this 'creator' - elliptical and inclined are attributes. This object was venerated in their religions. Why? Could be they knew it not only existed but was integral to life and Earth's history.

Some myths claim our planet was once a dark, water covered world and was split in two or dismembered by an invader thereby causing various phenomenon including the formation of Heaven and Earth. The number 6 is relevant to the process, 6 days in Genesis, the horned deity in the Fremont version is 6th in line, the Incan cosmos shows their creator as the 6th object at perihelion, and the Enuma Elish says Marduk passed by 5 'gods' before slaying Tiamat.

While the spiral pattern it formed in the sky over a few months would have been noted, its first and last sighting would be unique as 'windows' thru which 'god' appeared and disappeared.

It would make it more like a comet, as I said before. I don't think it would have been associated with the other planets.

Comets have a distinctive appearance

Well... this entirely hypothetical object would certainly have gone northwards of the other planets in the sky, but north isn't necessarily synonymous with "up". It's a convention that we hold to these days, but there are plenty of old maps (and not as old as you're talking) where north is at the bottom of the map.

Why is it a convention we hold to these days?

Everything sets in the west and rises in the east. What has that got to do with this planet particularly?

If this planet had a sufficiently large inclination it would have started out circumpolar for people far to the south and ended circumpolar for people far enough north. Everybody else would have seen it rise and set until it disappeared.

You were talking about its last setting location being commemorated. Now it's circumpolar when it fades. Which is it?

Depends on the location of the observer. If you're 30 degrees north at Gizeh it would not have been circumpolar at any point in its journey, but at 60 degrees north it would have started out rising and setting but eventually become circumpolar.

People would have a ley line based on where they saw it initially rise in the sky, albeit for people watching the object rise and set after being circumpolar the window of first appearance would still be the original constellation.

Why would they be related to this object? As far as I can tell you've invented an entirely hypothetical object to explain away a SE to NW geographical alignment. You're now fudging the same hypothetical object to explain something completely different, which now requires it to be going circumpolar when it previously wasn't. This is the most tenuous thing I've ever heard.

Sorry, I gave up reading any more as... what's the point. You don't make sense or give any sound reasoning for anything.

An enterprising researcher could analyze various henges and ley lines looking for unexplained alignments running SE-NW to determine if they were pointing to the same object. If people believe "God" traveled across the sky disappearing into Cygnus, then some people might believe thats where the souls of the righteous follow. For some reason we have myths about people traveling to Heaven, even the Sumerian 'Adam" and biblical Enoch and returning.

Whatever this word salad means, here's some fun, scientific facts about Deneb, the brightest star in Cygnus: Deneb.

Deneb is a blue-white supergiant. It's going to be the pole star in several thousand years. And some day it's going to go BOOM! as a supernova.

Constellations are not static. The stars travel around the galaxy according to their own orbits, and many aren't anywhere near each other. The shapes of the constellations change, and some day we won't even recognize the current ones.

Betelgeuse in Orion has dimmed recently which is normal for variable stars, but it's scheduled to blow up 'soon' too.
 
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