Ley Lines - a Path to God?

Betelgeuse in Orion has dimmed recently which is normal for variable stars, but it's scheduled to blow up 'soon' too.
I am aware of this. In fact it may already have blown up, but we won't be aware of that until the light of the supernova explosion reaches us.

Or it might not happen for another 100,000 years, according to the article on my news site. In either case, it's a short time in the life of a star.

And since Betelgeuse has nothing to do with either Deneb or Cygnus, I fail to see what your point might be in mentioning it.

Because the stars each have their own orbits around the center of the galaxy, the shapes of the constellations have changed, and will continue to change. Therefore, there will come a time when the constellation of Cygnus won't even exist.
 
It was recently in the news and you mentioned Deneb's fate... and because Orion plays such a big role in the mythology of the cosmos. The constellations dont change much, the viewing platform does though, enough for the pole stars to alternate and related phenomenon like 'ages'.
 
It was recently in the news and you mentioned Deneb's fate... and because Orion plays such a big role in the mythology of the cosmos. The constellations dont change much, the viewing platform does though, enough for the pole stars to alternate and related phenomenon like 'ages'.
Actually, given enough time, they do change.

But you do understand that the human brain is hard-wired to seek out patterns and pictures, so the constellations are only what we imagine, right? Different cultures see different pictures and have different mythologies to go along with those pictures.
 
The Fremont panel and Incan cosmos (just to name 2) provide clues to the nature of this 'creator' - elliptical and inclined are attributes. This object was venerated in their religions. Why? Could be they knew it not only existed but was integral to life and Earth's history

If you say so. You're not giving any references here and I don't know exactly what they claim at all. Do they give any star maps or details about the orbit of this thing? Or make any mention of the SE-NW thing? Or are you just tying disparate things together in your head?

Some myths claim our planet was once a dark, water covered world and was split in two or dismembered by an invader thereby causing various phenomenon including the formation of Heaven and Earth. The number 6 is relevant to the process, 6 days in Genesis, the horned deity in the Fremont version is 6th in line, the Incan cosmos shows their creator as the 6th object at perihelion, and the Enuma Elish says Marduk passed by 5 'gods' before slaying Tiamat.

How does this relate to anything you were saying about this planet in an inclined, elliptical orbit?

While the spiral pattern it formed in the sky over a few months would have been noted, its first and last sighting would be unique as 'windows' thru which 'god' appeared and disappeared

This appears to be pure speculation. I don't find the argument convincing that this would definitely be the case and don't even see it as likely.

Comets have a distinctive appearance

The behaviour of this object would closely resemble the behaviour of a comet though. It would not at all resemble the behaviour of any of the regular planets.

Why is it a convention we hold to these days?

No idea, but it was being talked about in the random questions thread recently.

If this planet had a sufficiently large inclination it would have started out circumpolar for people far to the south and ended circumpolar for people far enough north. Everybody else would have seen it rise and set until it disappeared.

Yes but my point was you're essentially inventing an object with one set of attributes so that it can agree with one thing, then once you've decided that it exists for that reason, you're imbuing it with other attributes that it wouldn't necessarily have in order to agree with some other thing. Then you're acting like it explains two different things and this therefore makes it more likely to be true. But the two sets of attributes are pretty much independent.

Oh and then adding in the thing about it disappearing in Cygnus, which is a third attribute you're just making up, again not related.
 
http://thehiddenrecords.com/gobekli-tepe-taurus-bull

wow, in the Taurus Mtns of Turkey, Gobleki Tepe was part of a larger structure in the shape of the celestial bull

If you say so. You're not giving any references here and I don't know exactly what they claim at all. Do they give any star maps or details about the orbit of this thing? Or make any mention of the SE-NW thing? Or are you just tying disparate things together in your head?

I linked some of the maps... The Incan 'creator' was an ellipse dividing 5 objects above and 4 below. Thats how our solar system is divided, 5 outer planets, 4 inner planets. The Fremont creator approached the horned deity from below the line of 5 outer planets. Elliptical and inclined.

How does this relate to anything you were saying about this planet in an inclined, elliptical orbit?

The Enuma Elish describes the creator (Marduk) as being born in the deep beyond the olden gods (sun, planets), passing by 5 outer gods, splitting Tiamat sending part of her to a new location leaving behind "Heaven" as a barrier or screen dividing the solar system. That not only means Heaven refers to part of a former planet but Tiamat was the 6th planet in line from Marduk.

The biblical monotheists didn't want to talk about gods so the planets became 'days' with Tehom (Tiamat) the 6th day where Heaven and Earth were created. The authors kept the numbers but disguised the gods. The Earth is now the 7th planet but our water came from the 6th planetary position.

This appears to be pure speculation. I don't find the argument convincing that this would definitely be the case and don't even see it as likely.

When people refer to ages they're talking about the zodiacal 'window' the sun rises on the vernal equinox. These were often called 'houses' so the planets would rise (and set) with the constellations as the background. Because of precession and the wandering planets the background changes with respect to the planetary 'gods'.

The behaviour of this object would closely resemble the behaviour of a comet though. It would not at all resemble the behaviour of any of the regular planets.

Comets were defined by their comas. I have to correct myself, if this object had an inclined orbit from the 'south', then people would have seen it reach a most northerly point and then turn and head back south before disappearing. For people far to the south they might lose sight of it in the north, then see it come back eventually disappearing with a circumpolar orbit.

Yes but my point was you're essentially inventing an object with one set of attributes so that it can agree with one thing, then once you've decided that it exists for that reason, you're imbuing it with other attributes that it wouldn't necessarily have in order to agree with some other thing. Then you're acting like it explains two different things and this therefore makes it more likely to be true. But the two sets of attributes are pretty much independent.

Oh and then adding in the thing about it disappearing in Cygnus, which is a third attribute you're just making up, again not related.

This object shows up in cosmologies all over the world, I'm just trying to figure out its location by looking for major unexplained alignments. Ley lines, be they lines connecting towns or monuments, or just the small lines found within astronomical wheels and henges, might clue us in.

The Inca show it as an ellipse, the Fremont show it as an inclined ellipse, and the Toltec (and I presume the Olmec) said it occupied 2 levels in the heavens. If analysis of these structures show an unexplained alignment inclined to the ecliptic we might find planet X.

Actually, given enough time, they do change.

But you do understand that the human brain is hard-wired to seek out patterns and pictures, so the constellations are only what we imagine, right? Different cultures see different pictures and have different mythologies to go along with those pictures.

Taurus the Bull appears at Gobleki Tepe and in French cave art dating back even further.
 
So we have now moved from Orion to the Pleiades

From your link @Berzerker
February 2012 Breaking discovery:

A 12000 yr old geoglyph depicting a giant bull, carved into a hill along the Taurus Mountain Range in Turkey, has been discovered. The geoglyph contains a stone circle star map with an enigmatic message. These are claims made by me as a researcher and author of The Hidden Records - Wayne Herschel, on the mystery of the Gobekli Tepe historical site in Turkey.

When seen from above, the cluster of six stone circle monuments now excavated convincingly form a star map representation of the Pleiades… and using astronomy around 12000 years ago and its symbols... it clearly speaks an ancient celestial message. Credit: Google Earth image source with some objects sharpened.
THE CLUES 2006 AND 2012

I had been looking for these distinct bull worship patterns at Gobekli Tepe ever since the site had been discovered. Surprisingly archaeologists have not noticed the geoglyph at all.

Since 2006 I have kept my findings under wraps until further excavations had been completed. Archaeologists in a report dating back to 2006 originally claimed they were a “cluster” of stone circles. When I read the article this was the magic word. Unfortunately a map showing the exact positions of all six stone circles that look like ruins of ‘dwellings’ would not become available for a long time yet… until now. Then the day arrived, new images were made public and Google Earth released their new image.

Years passed, until just the other day one of archaeologists released their excavations map that is up to date with what was seen on Google Earth... (ref)

[google earth image doesn't copy, but if you compare the image on his site with google earth today, they look nothing alike. Now I'm not saying that the author is using photoshop or some other fake imagery, but....]




The ruins correlate with the Pleiades... in orientation and with the biggest stone circle also correlating with the biggest star Alcyone
. Note the area on the map at the top of the image with a question mark. This is where I believe an original circle once existed instead of in the position of point ‘E’ (an enclosure that is square and not circular but is made up of 4 megalithic stone pillars). For now, let us accept point ‘E’ as representing the star correlation since it is an enclosure and it holds 4 substantial stone pillars (blue).

Egyptian evidence coincidently proposes the two stars Atlas and Pleione in this ‘straight line’ alignment in more than two cases, so what one needs to recheck with astronomers is star movement data. They say that the Pleiades cluster of stars has retained its general positioning and appearance as it is seen here for over 17000 years. The position ‘x’ is where I believe another circle may once have existed and has potentially been removed through either war or later rebuilds. Or perhaps the ancients thousands of years later forgot the secret, its sacredness and used the stones.

If scholars insist Gobekli Tepe was the ‘first civilisation’, I realised that if my theory that visitors from an earth-like planet associated with a Sun-like star near the Pleiades was a reality beyond theory status, then evidence of this had to be found here too… ostensibly the oldest civilisation. But not just a hint of the theme, it had to be one of the strongest cases to date presenting my work.

STAR VISITOR BLUE PRINT CODE - HOW WAS THE SECRET LOST... OR HIDDEN?

My ‘star map theory’ insists that ALL the first civilisations on this planet had beginnings with advanced knowledge, all were obsessed in portraying their identical but shared blueprint code of who they were and where they came from: that they were human and that they came from the stars… or more specifically one special star. One would surely expect this kind of passion if humanity shared a unifying and unique genesis: people proud of their heritage as descendants of a very advanced and sacred star ancestor bloodline.

Yes, this indeed seemed to be the case in the beginning. Civilisations put up monuments to their heritage, built cities to emulate the stars and areas in the heavens that they were so proud to come from. But in time, in the name of kingship, glory, power and profit, one by one, kings decided to hide the truth making it available only to their kin. In doing this, they lied to their people that only they were of the sacred bloodline. Foreigners, whose heritage had once been the same, were considered as ‘not chosen’ lineage completely and it was easy for rulers to recruit armies to attack those who were not the chosen ones. They would obey orders and murder, rape and pillage foreign lands.

The elite rich people kingships in many lands kept the secret. Powerful empires grew and in all likelihood this is probably how secret sects and secret societies began… hiding and encoding knowledge of the divine and heavenly equality and sacred beginnings of all humanity.

GOBELKI TEPE – IS IT THE OLDEST MEGALITHIC EMPIRE?

Gobekli Tepe in Turkey is currently placed by archaeologists as the ‘ground zero’ of human beginnings on the planet. Some go as far as saying it must therefore be the Eden of the biblical account, while others say this is the real place of ‘Tep Zepi’ predating Egypt. I believe Stonehenge, Egypt, Sumer, the Inca, the Maya and all the other ancient civilisations had the same early arrival so to speak on this planet, so they all share this colonisation ‘secret’ in many areas within a similar time window. But let us go with academic insistence for now that this is the earliest record of advanced thinking human life and they place it somewhere around 12000 years ago.

HISTORY OF THE GOBEKLI TEPE SITE

For those not familiar with the history of the Gobekli Tepe site in Turkey or the general findings claimed so far by the historians working there. Look at the way the top portion of the stone pillar has its strange tilted lintel fit flush like the Inca, here is where the stone masons are megalithic class without a doubt.
 
I could not possibly post enough :rolleyes: to adequately convey the depths of my disdain for such claptrap. Absolutely NOTHING in any real scientific discipline supports this "ancient alien" garbage, and if there was anything to it, I'd have been taught it in my anthropology/archaeology classes, not to mention my astronomy class, and Carl Sagan would have presented it as fact, not made-up nonsense.
 
Does that mean the bull image surrounding Gobleki Tepe was photoshopped?
I went back to the earliest google image from 2006. In his outlining of the Bull's head he uses both non man made features and man made features to get the outline. He has also "enhanced" features that were hardly visible to make them stand out: the eye, the horns. His use of a road to define the front of the face is pretty suspect. I can look at the same 2006 image and out line the shape of man reclining, looking to the right and wearing a hat. His hat is dark as are his pants. And then one has to wonder why would anyone think that over 15,000 years land has not changed as people lived and used the land. If you take away all the man made and man created changes, there are no images at all.
 
actually I see you said you weren't accusing him of photo shopping the image
I don't know if he photoshopped it or just enhanced the things he needed to, to make his story look plausible. In any case the cow image he circumscribed is a fiction. Just like the man image I can outline.
 
Another point. Your link uses 7 sites within the larger site as a star map. Well, that is also wrong. First, there are only 4 circular sites within that space. The others seem to be more house like. Then in the surrounding countryside, researchers have located 16 more circular areas for excavation. In addition, the hill was used throughout ancient times as a quarry so the surrounding land is no longer what it was 8000 BCE.

Here are some pictures.

Gobekli Tepe 3.jpg Gobekli Tepe.jpg
 
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I'm dubious about his theory involving the Pleiades, I've heard there are more buried structures but time will tell on that. But I do see the outline of a bull's head with its horns and eye.
 
I'm dubious about his theory involving the Pleiades, I've heard there are more buried structures but time will tell on that. But I do see the outline of a bull's head with its horns and eye.
Of course you do. That's because he drew it in and now you can't unsee it.
 
But I can see it in the other link, the horns, eye and 'sun' between the horns stand out enough. The only way to tell is to date all 3 aspects of the bull's head.

Well, the eye is hard to make out but if there is a rock structure there it may need enhancement to see it. The forehead to the nose is easily seen too.
 
A reclining man with a hat.
Gobleki Tepe 4.png
 
But I can see it in the other link, the horns, eye and 'sun' between the horns stand out enough. The only way to tell is to date all 3 aspects of the bull's head.

Well, the eye is hard to make out but if there is a rock structure there it may need enhancement to see it. The forehead to the nose is easily seen too.
And do you think that all of those "structures" have been there unchanged for 10,000 years? The forehead is a road to the farmers field. My man is is much better.
 
The Enuma Elish describes the creator (Marduk) as being born in the deep beyond the olden gods (sun, planets), passing by 5 outer gods, splitting Tiamat sending part of her to a new location leaving behind "Heaven" as a barrier or screen dividing the solar system. That not only means Heaven refers to part of a former planet but Tiamat was the 6th planet in line from Marduk.

The biblical monotheists didn't want to talk about gods so the planets became 'days' with Tehom (Tiamat) the 6th day where Heaven and Earth were created. The authors kept the numbers but disguised the gods. The Earth is now the 7th planet but our water came from the 6th planetary position.

I don't think this answers how any of this is related to the hypothetical planet in the inclined, elliptical orbit you were talking about....

When people refer to ages they're talking about the zodiacal 'window' the sun rises on the vernal equinox. These were often called 'houses' so the planets would rise (and set) with the constellations as the background. Because of precession and the wandering planets the background changes with respect to the planetary 'gods'.

This also just... doesn't relate to the question at all. You're equating this with the first and last sightings of a particular planet, and where it was seen in the sky. That's not the same thing as the above. You're (I think) equating different things.

Comets were defined by their comas. I have to correct myself, if this object had an inclined orbit from the 'south', then people would have seen it reach a most northerly point and then turn and head back south before disappearing. For people far to the south they might lose sight of it in the north, then see it come back eventually disappearing with a circumpolar orbit.

Hold on what? You said this object became visible south of the ecliptic, gradually moved north (over some period of time), before fading from view north of the ecliptic. Far enough north to be circumpolar (as viewed from... somewhere). Now you're completely changing that. Now it moves back south and fades away in the south? Why? How is that even possible?

This object shows up in cosmologies all over the world, I'm just trying to figure out its location by looking for major unexplained alignments. Ley lines, be they lines connecting towns or monuments, or just the small lines found within astronomical wheels and henges, might clue us in.

The Inca show it as an ellipse, the Fremont show it as an inclined ellipse, and the Toltec (and I presume the Olmec) said it occupied 2 levels in the heavens. If analysis of these structures show an unexplained alignment inclined to the ecliptic we might find planet X.

Why don't you lay out some sort of coherent, reasoned argument in an ordered, logical manner. Perhaps with actual descriptions of what these cultures actually believed in some level of detail? Rather than this stream of consciousness thing that completely lacks in any detail?

Maybe all these cultures believed in something and had charts/drawings that you can examine that point to some underlying truth that links it all. But babbling incoherently about it isn't going to convince anyone.
 
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