LGBT rampage

[Grisu]

Again, this group isnt a hate group. Those calling it a hate group are the ones responsible for this shooting. Its basically incitement.

By that reasoning would you think it's fair that we say those who say abortion = murder are responsible when a abortion doctor gets shot?

(for the record, personally think it's wrong to call them responsible in either case)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Indeed.

Following that line of reasoning

But to answer your question, I'd say the KKK is certainly a hate group. The Westboro Baptist Church crosses that line as well.

Those calling it a hate group are the ones responsible for this shooting. Its basically incitement.

Do you take responsibility if in the future either a KKK member or a WBC member gets shot?

 

[holy king]

Politics aside (though I am boycotting them for life now) I was once actually quite fond of their sandwiches.

have you never had actual food up until that point?

 

[AlpsStranger]

have you never had actual food up until that point?

I'm a junk foodie, I don't deny it. I moderate it so that it doesn't completely destroy me, but I like a lot of stuff that's terrible

Of course I also like a lot of stuff that's pretty healthy.

I guess what I'm saying is that I need to lose weight and like food.

 

[Formaldehyde]

When its not a hate group yes, it is just more intolerance. You see, your're really quick to call people haters and bigots when they really arent. When you do that it precisely is intolerance.

You mean that is what you frequently do? I have evidence on my side while you do not.

The SPLC has determined that this is a hate group, as well as the one which Dan Cathy has substantially contributed. You falsely claim neither are hate groups because you apparently support and promote both of them.

Furthermore, you falsely claimed that the Boy Scouts and even the Felllowship of Chirstian Athletes are considered to be hate groups when they clearly are not. What they both do is discriminate against homosexuals, which you also apparently support and promote. That alone doesn't make them a hate group any more than the dozens of Christian organizations which fight against same sex marriage are considered to be hate groups. But they are all clearly intolerant of homosexuals.

it isn't intolerant in the least to point out those who are actually intolerant, any more than it is bigotry to point out the bigots. This has become a tactic of some conservatives to do so lately. It doesn't fool anybody except perhaps themselves as well as those who don't really understand what intolerance actually means.

 

[Mango Elephant]

have you never had actual food up until that point?

Have you ever had Chick-Fil-A?

 

[AlpsStranger]

Have you ever had Chick-Fil-A?

Exactly.

In a vacuum I'd defend Chick-fil-A's food all day.

 

[Formaldehyde]

They do make a decent fast food product, albeit typically far slower than any comparable chain. But I think Wendy's chicken sandwich is just as good without any of the moral baggage. The only real difference is that the chicken isn't marinated in pickle juice.

 

[MobBoss]

Do you take responsibility if in the future either a KKK member or a WBC member gets shot?

Well, thats the odd thing isnt it. There isnt a lot of news of people attempting that is there, while there is against a group that far less extreme.

Why is that you wonder?

You mean that is what you frequently do? I have evidence on my side while you do not.

The SPLC has determined that this is a hate group, as well as the one which Dan Cathy has substantially contributed. You falsely claim neither are hate groups because you apparently support and promote both of them.

I dont care what the SPLC thinks.

Furthermore, you falsely claimed that the Boy Scouts and even the Felllowship of Chirstian Athletes are considered to be hate groups when they clearly are not.

Form, the FCA was listed as one of the groups that Dan Cathy supported, and was commented on by many to be 'one of those hate groups'. Thats what I am referring to.

What they both do is discriminate against homosexuals, which you also apparently support and promote. That alone doesn't make them a hate group any more than the dozens of Christian organizations which fight against same sex marriage are considered to be hate groups. But they are all clearly intolerant of homosexuals.

So, we've established that mere intolerance isnt hate. But I dont see this group being anything more than 'merely intolerant'.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, thats the odd thing isnt it. There isnt a lot of news of people attempting that is there, while there is against a group that far less extreme.

Why is that you wonder?

You avoided answering my question.

Note: I do not feel like you should, but using your reasoning you should.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Well, thats the odd thing isnt it. There isnt a lot of news of people attempting that is there, while there is against a group that far less extreme.

Why is that you wonder?

The KKK is old and impotent and the culture has already buried them six feet under. They have scraped rock bottom and are social pariahs.

The anti-gay movement is current and puissant. You are well aware of this distinction even if recognizing doesn't suit your purposes.

 

[MobBoss]

You avoided answering my question.

Note: I do not feel like you should, but using your reasoning you should.

If that wasnt good enough, how about this: both of those groups do a great job of solicting their own incitement against themselves because they are so hateful.

For example, there was a situation some years back where a town allowed a KKK march to occur, but wasnt able to put out enough police protection to ensure nothing would happen, and then whole thing ended up as a town wide riot.

The KKK is old and impotent and the culture has already buried them six feet under. They have scraped rock bottom and are social pariahs.

The anti-gay movement is current and puissant. You are well aware of this distinction even if recognizing doesn't suit your purposes.

The WBC is certainly relevant today and the KKK is indeed still active, although in greatly reduced numbers.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If that wasnt good enough, how about this: both of those groups do a great job of solicting their own incitement against themselves because they are so hateful.

For example, there was a situation some years back where a town allowed a KKK march to occur, but wasnt able to put out enough police protection to ensure nothing would happen, and then whole thing ended up as a town wide riot.

If I'm reading you right, responsibility for shooting a member of a certain group is a little more complex than merely labelling it a hate group, either correctly or incorrectly.

 

[Leonel]

MobBoss, I read a post of yours recently that argued it's fine if homosexuals want to call their relationship a Marriage, as long as the government doesn't recognize it. What role does the government play in the sanctity of marriage? Are they the arbiter on religious matters? Or is there a different reason you don't want the government to acknowledge their relationship as a marriage?

The key point is that just because the government definition of marriage can be changed, doesn't mean that the theological definition has to be changed along with it too. Theologically, victims of rape are required by law to marry their rapists but the government (and society as a whole) certainly frowns on that practice.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The key point is that just because the government definition of marriage can be changed, doesn't mean that the theological definition has to be changed along with it too.

My point exactly.

In fact, I'd be rather cross as a Christian if anyone would imply that government recognition influences my religious take on the matter. They are separate. I can see why Christians would be against a law that denies every church and every cleric the choice not to want to host a gay marriage.

 

[AlpsStranger]

In fact, I'd be rather cross as a Christian if anyone would imply that government recognition influences my religious take on the matter.

That would assume that you were a Christian who didn't want the government to do the heavy lifting.

I have a lot of respect for Christians who don't seek state power for their religion and if all Christians were that way I'd be happy to call off the secularist attack dogs and live in peace with them.

Sadly, too many votes can still be bought with a few cheap magic words.

 

[Traitorfish]

I have a lot of respect for Christians who don't seek state power for their religion

Do you also respect people for not mugging you?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I dont care what the SPLC thinks.

That is quite evident, as is your continuing support and defense of well-known hate groups such as this.

Form, the FCA was listed as one of the groups that Dan Cathy supported, and was commented on by many to be 'one of those hate groups'. Thats what I am referring to.

Just because some people might have claimed it was a hate group doesn't mean it is true, any more than you frequently falsely claiming others "hate" this or that merely because they disagree with your own personal opinions. Nor does it invalidate organizations such as the SPLC properly labeling true hate groups for quite legitimate reasons.

So, we've established that mere intolerance isnt hate. But I dont see this group being anything more than 'merely intolerant'.

Exactly. Just as you would apparently prefer to echo the same homophobic hateful opinions in this forum if you could.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Do you also respect people for not mugging you?

I respect people who are willing to walk the sometimes demanding walk of Christianity without lording it over me and trying to colonize the government.

 

[MobBoss]

That is quite evident, as is your continuing support and defense of well-known hate groups such as this.

Actually, its currently being argued that what the shooter did itself may be a hate crime.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/family-research-council-shooting-hate-crime-210123530.html

FBI officials said Thursday that the shooting of a security guard at the Family Research Council's D.C. headquarters on Wednesday may fall in the "hate crime/terrorism nexus," depending on the shooter's motive.