DukEngnr
Chieftain
I thought this Yahoo headline was markedly similar to most of my Civ III games. United States dominating in Cultural and Military aspects, but why does everyone hate me? 
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Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
I hope that everyone who weighs in here with assumptions about our "allies" reads the link you nicely provided.
This shift in world attitude towards us boils down to ONE THING in my book: the belligerent bumbling public image of the Bush administration.
I will risk trouble by sharing a story: my brother was two blocks from the world trade center on september 11. He watched the terror out of his office window. Our family didn't hear from him for five hours. When he finally called me, in the evening, the first thing he said was:"this is Bush's fault."
There is no conspiracy in that indictment. America had thumbed it's nose at Kyoto and walked out of a world conference on racism because of "Arab criticism of Israel". We were talking about what was gonna happen when the son of Bush I got around to dealing with Iraq back then, too, though few seem to remember.
When you hear that people in the Taliban or Al Qaeda "hated us" you can believe the official rhetoric about their reasons for it. When you hear that Canada has a 25% approval rating of our "good world citizenship" you ought to start paying attention.
What makes your post even more disconcerting is that after September 11, America had the sympathy of the entire world. A proper statesman would have turned that into support for bringing the culprits to justice, and would have gotten that justice instead of punishing one after another nationfulls of innocent men women and children with overkill wars that miss the true targets.
Please don't take me the wrong way. Nothing excuses the terrorism, nothing justifies it. And nothing excuses the other nations of the world from the duty to truly deal with the menace raised by 9-11. But I feel that our administration, in its actions, its language, its attitude, have brought us into more peril. And it could have been so different. There was a legitimate chance to end terrorism. Instead we declared "war" on it, just as we once declared a "war on drugs"; that one ain't won yet, and the other one, with so much worse consequences, will suffer the same agonizing prosecution.
This shift in world attitude towards us boils down to ONE THING in my book: the belligerent bumbling public image of the Bush administration.
I will risk trouble by sharing a story: my brother was two blocks from the world trade center on september 11. He watched the terror out of his office window. Our family didn't hear from him for five hours. When he finally called me, in the evening, the first thing he said was:"this is Bush's fault."
There is no conspiracy in that indictment. America had thumbed it's nose at Kyoto and walked out of a world conference on racism because of "Arab criticism of Israel". We were talking about what was gonna happen when the son of Bush I got around to dealing with Iraq back then, too, though few seem to remember.
When you hear that people in the Taliban or Al Qaeda "hated us" you can believe the official rhetoric about their reasons for it. When you hear that Canada has a 25% approval rating of our "good world citizenship" you ought to start paying attention.
What makes your post even more disconcerting is that after September 11, America had the sympathy of the entire world. A proper statesman would have turned that into support for bringing the culprits to justice, and would have gotten that justice instead of punishing one after another nationfulls of innocent men women and children with overkill wars that miss the true targets.
Please don't take me the wrong way. Nothing excuses the terrorism, nothing justifies it. And nothing excuses the other nations of the world from the duty to truly deal with the menace raised by 9-11. But I feel that our administration, in its actions, its language, its attitude, have brought us into more peril. And it could have been so different. There was a legitimate chance to end terrorism. Instead we declared "war" on it, just as we once declared a "war on drugs"; that one ain't won yet, and the other one, with so much worse consequences, will suffer the same agonizing prosecution.
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
It is an inevitability, as the "king of the hill" most will look unfavorably upon us.
The attack of September 11th was not "because of Bush", but because of a mad man and his followers. It was a long time in the making, long before Junior took the reigns of power.
Dont confuse the issues, one is public opinion and the other is the opinions of a few lunatics.
Back on the topic, I do agree that our faltering image and falling popularity is, in part, due to the heavy handed Bush Administration, chiefly the never-ending talk of war against Iraq.
We live in a world that has grown weary of bloody conflict, and thats not a bad thing.
But waiting for an evil dictator to make the first move isnt the answer either. He must be dealt with, somehow, and he only responds to force. We are in a hard, lonely place as we try not to repeat the mistakes of the 20th century, in the untested waters of the 21st.
I hope that this all ends soon, as I am really growing tired of it.
As for America's popularity, I dont see what can be done at the present time to improve it.
The attack of September 11th was not "because of Bush", but because of a mad man and his followers. It was a long time in the making, long before Junior took the reigns of power.
Dont confuse the issues, one is public opinion and the other is the opinions of a few lunatics.
Back on the topic, I do agree that our faltering image and falling popularity is, in part, due to the heavy handed Bush Administration, chiefly the never-ending talk of war against Iraq.
We live in a world that has grown weary of bloody conflict, and thats not a bad thing.
But waiting for an evil dictator to make the first move isnt the answer either. He must be dealt with, somehow, and he only responds to force. We are in a hard, lonely place as we try not to repeat the mistakes of the 20th century, in the untested waters of the 21st.
I hope that this all ends soon, as I am really growing tired of it.
As for America's popularity, I dont see what can be done at the present time to improve it.
wilbill
That Old Time Religion
I have no use for Saddam and I'm real sorry he tried to have Governor Bush's dad assassinated, but I'm still not convinced it's a good reason to fight a war right now.
Of course, we have some difficult choices to make: the other civs are totally p.o'd at us, so a diplomatic victory is out of the question; we have a good lead in culture but don't dominate enough for a cultural victory; 2050 is too close for domination or conquest; can we win on points?
Of course, we have some difficult choices to make: the other civs are totally p.o'd at us, so a diplomatic victory is out of the question; we have a good lead in culture but don't dominate enough for a cultural victory; 2050 is too close for domination or conquest; can we win on points?
DukEngnr
Chieftain
Well, haven't we already go the Apollo program? Probably best shot is at the spaceship victory...
Switch625
I don't care.
Well, we're researching SDI, so we're at the end of the tech tree. We also have the Apollo Program wonder, so a space ship victory is feasable.
WHAT?! What do you MEAN we haven't started construction??!!
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
We have let the industrial base move to the third world too.
Spaceship is deffinately out of the question.
Spaceship is deffinately out of the question.
tpasmall
Dark Lord Of The Sith
Well, the strongest unit that the Iraqs have is the spearman......good lord, are tanks are doomed!!!!!!
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Oh, is that why were doing it?Kind of like a failed plant-spy attempt?
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
@joe; it is nice to be in a conversation again!
I agree with you 99%. I can't shake the nagging feeling that they "waited" for Bush, or that his family history didn't tweak the madmen a bit...
I agree again. And this could be done differently and far less beligeretnly on our part. After all; we ARE right. And the repetitive speechifying focus (to the point of downplaying AL QAEDA! Shocks me still!) on Iraq has more to do IMO with cowing domestic opposition than with convincing the world community.
Agree agree.
Bush ought to take a page out of the Clinton arsenal: lie, smile, agree in public forums and do nothing in actual policy. America really isn't the badguy in the world (CHINA IS!) but we are the richest and best armed guy in the world. Maybe it is just an unhappy coincidence that Saddam is the villain du jour and he tried to kill Bush's dad but it looks horribly suspect. No matter what Greadius says, we can't afford to be so buddy buddy with REAL terrorists like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Indonesia. Why can't we hold Isreal to the same standard of UN resolution obedience as Iraq? Why the hell can't we agree to a World Court of War Crimes?
As a man who loves to visit other countries, I can only hope that Bush's attempts to scare Americans into supporting their economic demise eventually backfire before the next election. I guarantee good tidings from around the world if anyone who opposes him is allowed to be elected in his stead.
I agree with you 99%. I can't shake the nagging feeling that they "waited" for Bush, or that his family history didn't tweak the madmen a bit...
I agree again. And this could be done differently and far less beligeretnly on our part. After all; we ARE right. And the repetitive speechifying focus (to the point of downplaying AL QAEDA! Shocks me still!) on Iraq has more to do IMO with cowing domestic opposition than with convincing the world community.
Agree agree.
Bush ought to take a page out of the Clinton arsenal: lie, smile, agree in public forums and do nothing in actual policy. America really isn't the badguy in the world (CHINA IS!) but we are the richest and best armed guy in the world. Maybe it is just an unhappy coincidence that Saddam is the villain du jour and he tried to kill Bush's dad but it looks horribly suspect. No matter what Greadius says, we can't afford to be so buddy buddy with REAL terrorists like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Indonesia. Why can't we hold Isreal to the same standard of UN resolution obedience as Iraq? Why the hell can't we agree to a World Court of War Crimes?
As a man who loves to visit other countries, I can only hope that Bush's attempts to scare Americans into supporting their economic demise eventually backfire before the next election. I guarantee good tidings from around the world if anyone who opposes him is allowed to be elected in his stead.
Greadius
:yeah:
Though the rest of your post was pretty much drivel
p), you're absolutely right here.Clinton knew how to cultivate an image. His popularity worldwide still holds today. I don't think it is because of his politics or because he was a democrat, but he knew how important public relations were in the international arena. Bush is too fargone in this field for a recovery; I look for those numbers to slump through the rest of the administration (though they may make minor recoveries).
However, the results said exactly what I felt all along. The 10% that whine the loudest never speak for the majority.
Now lets give some major $ rewards to the people of Nigeria and Uzbekistan to show that flattery will get them everywhere
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Yep. Clinton was a dirty snake, but damn he looked good.
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
Originally posted by Greadius
Though the rest of your post was pretty much drivel
back at ya! 
In his push to take on the image of an "Anti-Clinton" Bush probably thought it would be appealing to Americans to talk "blunt" with our neighbors. And maybe it is with a certain crowd (and maybe that is a fairly big crowd right now...). But indeed, it is a blunder that is costing us goodwill.
However, the results said exactly what I felt all along. The 10% that whine the loudest never speak for the majority.
Now lets give some major $ rewards to the people of Nigeria and Uzbekistan to show that flattery will get them everywhere
I don't get either of these sentences. Are you just overtired?
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
Actually he had an intern assigned to keeping his snake clean...
wilbill
That Old Time Religion
We moved the research slider down too far back in the mid-70's and haven't built nearly enough libraries and universities. [F11] "America - Literacy 65%, 7th"
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Time to start giving out some techs and luxuries so we hedge the bet on the UN vote.
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Ofcourse, we could try for the conquest victory... 
ICBMs followed by Modern Armor and Mech Infantry.
ICBMs followed by Modern Armor and Mech Infantry.
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