LizNES5: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying, And Love The Bomb

[Dreadnought]

Well, if you don't want me posting in the thread, I'd be more than happy to PM you, but I prefer posting so that no one thinks I am saying rude things behind their back.

I'm just confused how I both lost air superiority, when last turn the USMA's air force was reduced to only a couple air wings; that, and how the amphibious attack could have been planned, let alone initiated, without my generals knowing about it. I mean, it takes tons and tons and tons of munitions, supplies, etc. to support anything more than a raid via an amphibious attack; I would have thought my recon would have noticed such a maneuver being performed. This isn't like the American attack on Icheon, against the North Koreas with little air or naval power. The Confederate navy was stationed in the north Atlantic from the get go, from last turn's air attack; I would have expected my admirals to notice any maneuver in the Atlantic, especially with the French stating their intentions to attack. It's as if the entire USMA navy had dropped off the radar, and my navy didn't care enough to ask where they had gone.

I mean, I would have thought my capital of all things would have had more precautions guarding against such a maneuver. Finally, I feel that this amphibious attack would have diverted too much resources from the home front, that I'd have made considerable advances in the north while the amphibious attack was occurring.

It was a daring plan and all, but I don't think it could have worked, seeing as both my navy was in too close of a position to intercept such a plan, and it would have diverted too many resources from the home front. With that being said, I'd understand if a raid, for propaganda purposes, had been launched; if a commando team, in a small squadron of ships, managed to land, cause some distractions, and leave again, then I'd shrug it off, tighten security, and move on. But a full-blown amphibious attack seems doomed for failure.

 

[Dreadnought]

That being said, I don't want to take away the fun of the surprise attack and all. It just feels a little like a "Lee's Lost Orders" sort of outcome.

 

[arya126]

Dread, I built loads of fighters, I had the maritimes air force which you had forgotten about, and alot of the french air force. It wasnt that hard to beat your air force, whichb was pretty beat up from the initial attacks last turn.

And your NAVY? Even my navy by itself is bigger then yours. Then you add in the Maritimes and the French...well we would have had 3 aircraft carriers, land based air support, a battleship, and well over 20 destroyers as well as some subs. Your navy consisted of a single carrier, 6 destroyers, and some subs I believe.

It really didnt divert more than a few divisions form the home front. It wasnt that much away, and in response you probably shifted an accordingly amount of men away from the main front to contain us, so it equaled out didnt it?

In all honesty, if I REALLY wanted to complain, I would be asking why my navy didnt seek out yours to destroy it once it had finished its part in the operation. Or why the complete flattening of 2 miles inland before the landing was not mentioned, nor whether it was not mentioned that I razed the capital. But I didnt.

 

[ZeletDude]

To: France
From: Germany
We urge you end your hostile actions against the CNA.

 

[GamezRule]

I thought this was dead?

 

[TheLizardKing]

No, I understand. PM or thread is fine, I don't mind either way.

You lost air superiority due in large part to the French support. And while your navy wss in the North Atlantic, it came to be my understanding that the naval units stationed in the Caribbean and from France converged, and helped aid the strike. While I would agree with you that such things do take a lot of time, planning and effort, the scale of this invasion isn't nearly as large as you seem to think it is. That, and from the way I viewed it, the attack occurred at some point in the fall, leaving what I viewed to be, a pretty big window for these soldiers to be geared up, and land. Especially when it has to do with only a few divisions and units, rather then entire armies.

It was also my thinking, wrong or right, that, had your navy maneuvered to meet the fleet, whose intentions at that point might of just as well of been to knock your fleet out of the fight, you have to keep in mind that your own forces were once again simply outnumbered. Attacking the Franco-Atlantic Fleet would have been a poor descision on the part of your admirals, and ultimately from what I can see, would of had few 'good' effects, other then leave your coast open for invasion without a fleet.

In terms of making more advances in the north, I have to point out that, again, from my understanding, the attack occurred later in the year. You captured Pittsburgh, and large parts of American manufacturing, and you are pretty close to cutting the entire nation in half. Unless Arya invests a bit in the right things this next turn, what you invested in last turn will come into effect in a fairly large way in this upcoming year.

Finally, I'll point to the fact that you are overestimating the position of these guys, and the amount of them. Looking back, I will admit that perhaps losing Charleston is a bit of a push, that I can fully understand, and acknowledge your point there. But it's not as if the Confederate States are teetering on collapse. From my view point, you came out this year stronger then when you went into it.

 

[Dreadnought]

Dread, I built loads of fighters, I had the maritimes air force which you had forgotten about, and alot of the french air force. It wasnt that hard to beat your air force, whichb was pretty beat up from the initial attacks last turn.

Building fighters, training the pilots, and arming them, while under constant harassment from enemy bombers and fighters, isn't feasible, especially when the production centers themselves are being bombed.

And your NAVY? Even my navy by itself is bigger then yours. Then you add in the Maritimes and the French...well we would have had 3 aircraft carriers, land based air support, a battleship, and well over 20 destroyers as well as some subs. Your navy consisted of a single carrier, 6 destroyers, and some subs I believe.

Our navies were comparable before the French showed up; and don't get me started about the French!

It really didnt divert more than a few divisions form the home front. It wasnt that much away, and in response you probably shifted an accordingly amount of men away from the main front to contain us, so it equaled out didnt it?

Those men, diverted from the home front, would had to have headed eastward, towards the shoreline, in an effort to have them loaded onto the ships in order to proceed with the attack; seeing as my navy had, as in the update, blockaded (I think that's a bit of a tight term, but their presence was enough) the coastline, I would have guessed that someone would have at least noticed the maneuver to raise a few eyebrows.

In all honesty, if I REALLY wanted to complain, I would be asking why my navy didnt seek out yours to destroy it once it had finished its part in the operation. Or why the complete flattening of 2 miles inland before the landing was not mentioned, nor whether it was not mentioned that I razed the capital. But I didnt.

I'm not complaining; I'm asking for clarification. I would have preferred a naval battle in the update, seeing as my navy just has seemed to sit with her thumb up her esophagus this entire time. I mean, I was giving you credit where credit was due; it was a neat idea, and had it struck Maryland or Virginia, in a quick, one-day operation, I would have kicked myself for not covering the naval flank more. But a whole offensive against my capital just seems like a bit of, like I said, a Lee's Lost Orders sort of thing.

 

[Dreadnought]

No, I understand. PM or thread is fine, I don't mind either way.

You lost air superiority due in large part to the French support. And while your navy wss in the North Atlantic, it came to be my understanding that the naval units stationed in the Caribbean and from France converged, and helped aid the strike. While I would agree with you that such things do take a lot of time, planning and effort, the scale of this invasion isn't nearly as large as you seem to think it is. That, and from the way I viewed it, the attack occurred at some point in the fall, leaving what I viewed to be, a pretty big window for these soldiers to be geared up, and land. Especially when it has to do with only a few divisions and units, rather then entire armies.

It was also my thinking, wrong or right, that, had your navy maneuvered to meet the fleet, whose intentions at that point might of just as well of been to knock your fleet out of the fight, you have to keep in mind that your own forces were once again simply outnumbered. Attacking the Franco-Atlantic Fleet would have been a poor descision on the part of your admirals, and ultimately from what I can see, would of had few 'good' effects, other then leave your coast open for invasion without a fleet.

In terms of making more advances in the north, I have to point out that, again, from my understanding, the attack occurred later in the year. You captured Pittsburgh, and large parts of American manufacturing, and you are pretty close to cutting the entire nation in half. Unless Arya invests a bit in the right things this next turn, what you invested in last turn will come into effect in a fairly large way in this upcoming year.

Finally, I'll point to the fact that you are overestimating the position of these guys, and the amount of them. Looking back, I will admit that perhaps losing Charleston is a bit of a push, that I can fully understand, and acknowledge your point there. But it's not as if the Confederate States are teetering on collapse. From my view point, you came out this year stronger then when you went into it.

Thanks for the clarification. The whole late-year sort of thing does make sense, seeing as he could have drawn the divisions from the lost defense of Pittsburgh, and my navy might have been more passive because of the numbers aligned against it.

I might have been overexaggerating in my own thoughts, seeing as I had assumed it was an Incheon sort of invasion with thousands and thousands of troops. What's the state of the government, though?

EDIT: All in all, I probably would only change one thing: I would still claim that the attack would have been detected, but unpreventable at that stage, so the city was evacuated, or at least the government and any important peoples, information, or items

 

[GamezRule]

Quite frankly, French aid was a one time thing, because Entente tanks were about to go parade in Paris.

 

[TheLizardKing]

What's the state of the government, though?

Your government, is fine, safe and removed to Atlanta, unless you prefer it somewhere else. Charleston was largely evacuated, and you did know about the naval invasion, albeit a bit too late to do anything about it. Conscripts were hurriedly raised, almost over night, and your government was evacuated, along with anyone else of importance.

 

[GamezRule]

I thought this was dead?

I repeat this statement.

 

[Dreadnought]

Your government, and likewise Charleston itself is fine, safe and removed to Atlanta, unless you prefer it somewhere else. Charleston was largely evacuated, and you did know about the naval invasion, albeit a bit too late to do anything about it. Conscripts were hurriedly raised, almost over night, and your government was evacuated, along with anyone else of importance.

Did you read my edit, or did you post before it? Because you hit the nail right on the head, and this outcome I can see as appropriate.

Thanks again for the clarification! Stories to come as soon as possible.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Because I am a drama queen, it was, but then it wasn't.

I just had one of those days that day, but quickly redacted the statement. I will admit that within the next few updates I hope to give this closure, so to get this back on track, I'd like to know reasonable amount of updates you guys would want, and if anyone would be even remotely interested in trying the other NES?

Did you read my edit, or did you post before it? Because you hit the nail right on the head, and this outcome I can see as appropriate.

Quite honestly, I posted before I read that. Yeah, you had a bit of notice, and I don't want to risk saying any specific amount of time. But it was enough for some minutemen to be given military rifles, and for your government to peacefully leave.

 

[arya126]

Um....Dread I think you overestimate your navy. I had a much large force than you one on one. Then you throw in the maritimes, and even without the french, I would have had you easily outnumbered, outgunned, and outclassed.

I would like to note however, that I had planned the operation for march-may sort of time. Im not sure where you got late fall from....but then we can just go with it I guess. Doesnt really matter. But I could have sworn i had said in my orders it was to be done early in the year......

Even without the ones I built, the fighters from France and the Maritimes would have probably saved the day for me in the sky. Plus, you have no idea where my fighter factories and traaining centers were. For all you knew, they were in michigan out of your reach, or perhaps in dakota.

 

[arya126]

As such, Charleston, save for a few bombs here and there is mostly intact also.

Um....WHAT?

Okay i KNOW that i ordered for the city to be basically flattened through my land based and carrier based bombers at this point. The point was the complete destruction of the city in the first place, along with the government. The landing wasnt even supposed to start until the first 2 miles inland of the city were reduced to rubble, and then they would have had hours after that, along with days, weeks, maybe months for the land forces to reduce the city to a bunch of rubble.

I really dont see why the city is intact at all. This was supposed to be akin the the night Norfolk burned in Glory in the Sun (the NES that ZD let die) except 10 times worse.

 

[TheLizardKing]

I'm aware that I posted that, and took it back as that was an error on my part. The government itself being destroyed along with it didn't happen, and probably wasn't going to happen.

 

[GamezRule]

GM's can ignore parts of your orders if they feel it is for the best.

 

[arya126]

So what was the final extent of the damage? You didnt mention it in the updates. I was seriously expecting this operation to make the list for event of the year for some reason. I put quite a bit of effort into this operation.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Charleston was hit hard. As hard as Boston, if not harder. You said you wanted to do as much damage as all WW2 aerial raids combined over it.. which was just impossible given the resources you put into it. Charleston being bombed out, I felt, didn't really need to be mentioned, as well, there came a point when it served no strategic purpose, only slaughter. I figured that is something your government would prefer to hide, rather then have it become public knowledge. After all, pictures of a flattened city with a lot of dead is rather detrimental to the public image you've attempted to convey yourself in. If you want me to go back and describe it in great detail, I'm sure I could.

The fact that quite a large number of innocents died for little reason is also part of the reason the Confederate approval went up. You landed, and killed a bunch of civilians. That's nothing something that is going to make them want to end the war. At least initially.

And the whole French-Intervention thing sort of umbrella'd this.

 

[Immaculate]

EDIT: removed my post