LK135 - Dutch, monarchy, Hemispheres map

[Tatran]

 

[yena]

Whoa, Churchill is a monster. We'd better start filling up our continent with more cities soon if we are going to be competitive.

 

[Meiz]

I see our position is strong and that it's going to increase once we get all of our cities up and running. Anxious to see what kind of postion last AI:s have and how large empire Churchill owns.

 

[LKendter]

I'm just happy to have finally found some AIs.
I agree Khan is really lame.

 

[Tatran]

To keep the game going smooth some discussion/ideas are required :

What to research after Civil Service?
1) Astronomy (29 turns)
Overseas trade + resource trading + observatories

2a) Feudalism (11 turns) -> Guilds (12 turns) -> Banking (11 turns)
Groceries + banks
Although with 2 shrines we could delay this path.
2b) Military : Feudalism -> Guilds -> Gunpowder (18 turns)
The AIs need Astronomy to do something stupid.

3a) Paper (9 turns) -> Education (26 turns) -> Liberalism (21 turns)
Universities + free tech
3b) Paper -> Education -> Gunpowder (18 turns)

4) Engineering (12 turns)
Extra movement + Notre Dame

5) Music (8 turns)
We could use the free Great Artist for a Golden Age.

Our commerce cities running out of multiplier improvements.

Instead of using the Espionage slider I prefer to hire some spies.
I like the passive effects, see research + investigate city.

What about those barbarian cities?
The one above Utrecht looks good.
I don't know about Zhou. It misses the gold hill.

Do we want to settle those tiny islands?
With dikes, production won't be a problem.

The AIs :
I don't see any problems to trade with Kublai Khan. His favorite civic is Bureaucracy.
Once we have Free Religion I don't see much problems with Churchill too.

 

[Meiz]

Thank you Tatran for bringing up conversation.

My suggestion for research path: Paper (9 turns) -> Education (26 turns) -> Liberalism (21 turns) -> Free Astronomy. Then we can build observatories and universities for massive research boost.

One fishing city should be settled south on top of Shaka's city ruins. My suggestion for dotmap in north.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
The first prophet arrives in 1 turn, and will found the Confucian shrine. We will still have ~30 turns for the second one. As soon as we get the second one I want to get out of pacifism so that we can afford to work on a military. A single border expansion at Samarqand will open us up to attack using just galleys.

Looking at the game the one thing that confuses me is why 's-Gravenhage was tripled whipped. This city IMHO is a production monster once we get all those plain forest tiles on-line.

I don't recall any feedback about GT. I still would like it in Ulundi. Please let me know if you disagree.

I am baffled for the FP, as Amsterdam is so central to the continent. Are there any comments from the team?

Looking at the tech path I would like to get literature to open up the Heroic Epic soon. IMHO 's-Gravenhage is the only realistic choice for the HE. - It is a bit suboptimal due to wanting market / grocer / bank due to the shrine, but it is shield heavy. It looks like it will eventually become our #1 shield city with low income. At least we won't feel the need for research boasters.

I suspect it is a bit late for music. If we want to grab that, we should switch to that immediately. If we get the artist, we could get a GA to cover a civics switch.

The liberalism path is a lot longer then three techs. We still need poly, mono and theology for 11 more turns. Two of those are dirt cheap, and I refuse to waste the tech limit on them.

Roster
LKendter (currently playing)
Yena (on deck)
Meiz
Njorls
Tatran

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open

Planned wars - none.

 

[njorls]

GT: Ulundi seems like the best choice.

FP: Maybe Nobamba if we put cities on those islands to the East? Would FP help with those?

There's an island south of Ulundi that might have a resource on it, and the island NW of Nijmegen may have other islands we'd want to put cities on.
We can wait to see what those hold before deciding.

HE in 's-Gravenhage sounds good.

Music's a bit of a gambit but a GA would be nice

I don't think you need Theology to get to Liberalism, only Philosophy.

 

[yena]

I see our position is strong and that it's going to increase once we get all of our cities up and running. Anxious to see what kind of postion last AI:s have and how large empire Churchill owns.

I was referring to the large number of cities Churchill has, and that he will dominate in the long run unless we build more cities. I agree that our position at the moment is quite good.

I'm in favour of the traditional paper-education-liberalism path, with Astronomy as the free tech. This way we can build universities, observatories, and a strong navy fairly soon.

I think we should capture the barbarian city north of Utrech, but raze the NW one. This could wait until later. I would put the horse city on the dot map one tile north to avoid the desert. Sharing a few tiles with the coastal city is no big problem IMO.

 

[Meiz]

Kublai Khan would be so easy to conquer but I assume colony maintenance would kill us? Would FP in center of his lands make any difference?

GT in Ulundi and HE in s-Gravenhage is perfect. What about Moai Statues? Island city just to get maximum benefit?

I don't think it is worth to delay Liberalism by researching Music. The sooner we get universities and observatories, the better. Edit: Free Religion is also very good for us once we want away from Pacifism.

 

[Tatran]

Looking at the game the one thing that confuses me is why 's-Gravenhage was tripled whipped.

Speed.

This city IMHO is a production monster once we get all those plain forest tiles on-line.

With lumbermills + dike yes, but at the moment it isn't. Workers + settlers have a higher priority, IMHO.


The Globe Theatre in Ulundi should finish after we have our second Great Prophet.

I've no idea where to put the Forbidden Palace. If we want to settle those tiny islands Nomamba is an option.

We should trade/ask for techs like Polytheism, Monarchy, Literature.

I'm against a war with Kublai Khan.
We'll risk he will become a vassal of Churchill during a war.
This means we'll have to ship over a lot of units.
We have a tech lead + trading with both shouldn't be a problem, so no reason to start a war.
Also, I don't like the idea to delay the Forbidden Palace. Creating a colony is much better.

Let's first find out who are the 3 unknown civs (Buddhist + Christianity).

I prefer to research Astronomy after Civil Service, so other religions will spread to our cities.
I've noticed the AIs in BTS do not use missionaries that much on island maps.
With Free Religion every religion is welcome for happiness.

 

[Meiz]

We should trade/ask for techs like Polytheism, Monarchy, Literature.

Maybe Monarchy but let's not waste tech trading limit to so cheap techs.

I'm against a war with Kublai Khan.
We'll risk he will become a vassal of Churchill during a war.
This means we'll have to ship over a lot of units.
We have a tech lead + trading with both shouldn't be a problem, so no reason to start a war.

I see one reason. If Churchill owns much bigger continent that we do, space race might be tough. But I agree that it's not time for war, at least yet.

 

[LKendter]

The liberalism path is a lot longer then three techs. We still need poly, mono and theology for 11 more turns. Two of those are dirt cheap, and I refuse to waste the tech limit on them.

I don't think you need Theology to get to Liberalism, only Philosophy.

Try opening the game, and click on liberalism. All of the techs I listed above showed up.

I've no idea where to put the Forbidden Palace. If we want to settle those tiny islands Nomamba is an option.

Also, I don't like the idea to delay the Forbidden Palace. Creating a colony is much better.

How can we not delay the FP if you don't know where to place it?


We seem to be heading down different paths. I'm not sure if enough will be straighten out for me to play tonight.

 

[Meiz]

Maybe we should just vote on research path? Everyone seems to be agreeing that GT goes to Ulundi. FP in Nobamba or in north when we settle more cities.

 

[njorls]

Try opening the game, and click on liberalism. All of the techs I listed above showed up.

I just did this. It unhighlights Civil Service when it does this. Same thing if you just click on Paper. I went and found an old game where I research Liberalism without getting Polytheism on the religious tree. When CS is done we should be able to get Paper next and have a clear path to Liberalism if that's what we want. Education and Liberalism. It's pretty confusing.

I think I like paper/education/lib next for the research boost as well. Music seems risky. It'll get us free religion sooner which will help with relations.

Not sure on FP, I'd build it in Nobamba if I had to build it right away.

 

[yena]

The new patch is now available for download, so I guess everyone should upgrade.

I'm sure that theology isn't needed for liberalism. It is only there since it is an alternative to CS which isn't researched yet. I'm with njorls on the liberalism/astronomy option.

I'm against war in the short term. We have a continent to settle.

 

[Tatran]

If spreading religion works the same way as trade routes with only one side with Astronomy,
we won't get any new religion if the AIs don't have Astronomy.
Maybe someone can confirm this.
If so, I vote for Paper -> Education -> Liberalism path.

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK135_AD-1150.CivBeyondSwordSave

1000 AD
Why does Firaxis have to destroy my settings with every single patch?

I should have examined the dot maps closer. Maastricht should have gone one south to not waste the corn.

I give Khan aesthetics for monarchy. I am not sure if it was the best deal since we don't know who is each other's worst enemy.


1030 AD
We contact the Mali. UGG - We already have -4 with him for trading with Khan. I should have gone with my first gut feeling and not traded.
(IT) I give Mali aesthetics to avoid our relations getting worse. We get a +4 for trade relations.


1040 AD
(IT) Khan is crazy, as he wants to sell us polytheism for construction and $45.
I revolt to bureaucracy, but pass on HR.


1070 AD
I met up with De Gaulle. I give him metal casting, compass and $40 to get feudalism.
(IT) Everyone is obsessed with Aesthetics. I give it to De Gaulle.


1080 AD
I contact Gilgamesh. He is backwards and clueless.
(IT) I refuse to give Khan civil service.
Events are on, as I just saw Mongolia get one.


1120 AD
(IT) We prove that the world is round.

=======================

New Updates

Roster
LKendter
Yena (currently playing)
Meiz (on deck)
Njorls
Tatran

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open

Planned wars - none.

 

[Tatran]

I should have examined the dot maps closer. Maastricht should have gone one south to not waste the corn.

Maybe, you should take a second look.

 

[LKendter]

Maybe, you should take a second look.

This is what I inherited. Looks pretty to me.