LK140 - Trying emperor

[Refar]

I really think we should beeline Electricity and Radio to deny Hammy (and Asoka) Broadway and RocknRoll; they also give us trade fodder for extra Mining Inc resources. Cristo would also be cool.

There is something to it... We have the prereqs for Electricity already, so could tech it next, then backtrade for Steam Power/Rifling (Some already have it...)

I dont think however we can have all 3 Wonders... Only Uruk has the hammers to build those... We do have a spare GE however...

 

[Jabah]

T0 (1550 - t330)
We are paying 20gpt for military (with stil some warrior, spear and archer), we should disband them when we have more better troops (partially did).

T2
Medecine -> Steam (as no one is trading)
Found Sushi in Uruk (bringing +5 food, no need for more)
Swap Uruk for a quick executive

T3
Lincoln has Rifling & Steam for trade, but wants more than education+Constitution for it.
discover than we are sharing the (whale-fish) island with Brennus and have just almost no defence -> send a galleon with some ok troop (arrived T14).

T6
everyone has Steam to trade.
Get it with cash from Ramses for Education
Steam->RR

T7
Trade Rifling for Liberalism+Economy to Ramses

T8
Asoka (pleased at +11/-2) wants physics , no (he won't declare until cautious)

T10
Hammurabi get a GTSpy (communism first)

T12
SBull asks for ivory, accepterd
Get a GScientist in Uruk, keep to discuss

Option :
electricity help (2902)
GA with spare GE (my vote)
Academy in lagash (worth 50% of around 80rpt)

T14
RRoad->AssLine
(reason 1. infantry and 2. factory)
Found Mining in Uruk
Another boat is sent with (2musket+1rifle) towards the southern islands.

T15
Asoka is elected again as pope, but we have more than a 1/3 of the vote (only 4 voters as well)


We don't have any happy problem (therefore not rushing to the electriccity wonders), but more health ressource or building are needed.

GP coming in 2t in Ur
(merchant 29%,Prophet 23%, Engineer 22%, Scientist 19%, Artist 7%)
If not a scientist, I would use it with Scientist for GAge, and keep GE for rushing a wonder later.

research wise, i would beeline Plastics (AssLine, Elect, Industry, Combustion, Plastics) for 3GD

I would also try to sign a Defensive Pact with Asoka (1st choice) or Hammurabi (last choice). Don't know if they will aggree as I did check.

save --> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK140_AD-1625.zip

Jabah

 

[Swiss Pauli]

@Jabah - we don't want RnR and Bway for the happy, but to deny them to the AIs gunning for a culture win

We should keep one GS on hand for AluCorp if we have coal. Jabah - do we have coal?

 

[Jabah]

We have 2x coal (2 connected, 1 under a island city, 1 in a hill in the middle of our continent outside any city BFC).
Workers are busy RRing to connect cities, then RR mines (we could do with a few more workers temporary, most are back on the continent)

We could keep the GS for AluCorp, but since it is not compatible with Mining it won't be able to be spread in Uruk (for the expensive SS builds).

No problem to (still) steal the RnR and Broadway, we have a good scientific advance on the AI (so delaying plastics form electricity is fine)
Uruk still has work for 10t imho before any fancy Wonders : Wall Street, still 4t, 1 mining executive2t (to delegate executives production), hopital 3-4t (need more health before going back to growth)

We have Physics on all but Lincoln, Biology on all, Corp on all (I think)
From memory:
Some AIs have Divine rights & Military Science (lots), Militry trad (Lincoln, Asoka ?), Communism (hammurabi) on us
The most advance is probably Lincoln.

I did sell gunpowder to Brennus for a lot of cash (around 900g) and confirm that it is not a source of 'trade with worst ennemy'.

Jabah

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK140_AD-1700.CivBeyondSwordSave


1625 AD
I see nothing to change.


1635 AD
We get a scientist. A GA isn't practical, as that would burn our engineer. Therefore, I use him to get a start on electric power.


1670 AD
(IT) We just popped a source of silver. That is a nice plus to our happy cap.


1675 AD
(IT) Sometimes events arrive at a bad time. We get an event to gain 3 pop in Umma, but all that would do is cause the city to starve. I take the 1 pop for no cost option.

=======================

New Updates
The Mining executive in the capitol is for Eridu to help speed the Pentagon along. I have Broadway queued up after that.

I got some more military to the islands, but I would still like to replace the obsolete junk on the islands with something better. After our HE city completes the factory we should be able to pump out the troops.

I build some replacement military disbanding a few obsolete spears and archers. Our military demographics still suck at 6th place. We need to keep replacing all of the low strength units.


Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli (currently playing)
Yena (on deck)
Refar
Jabah

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: learning toward space.

Planned wars - None

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Got it.

Are you sure we want the Pentagon: seems a huge amount of hammers for something that only has value in denying it to the AI?

Not sure why you didn't take the 3pop and let them starve whilst contributing to our empire. Are you practising for the upcoming RB Lincoln game

 

[Jabah]

Just a few question, so we all know what our plans are:

1. Which Wonder are we saving the GE for ?
2. What is our research path ?
3. Are we planning to spread sushi and mining to all our cities (I would say yes), if yes, where should we build executives (I would say Eridu).

Also do we want to grant independance to our island (since they are costing a lot) while asking them to provide food and mineral ? (I never did it, so I don't know exactly how it works and what we could ask from them, but I imagine, we could give them all our extra non-sushi, non-mining ressource for the one we want. My only fear is that they will exchange tech with AI without our agreement )

Also, I could be wrong, but since we have in our average city +85% research and +100% tax (meaning the exchange rate in favor of tax), a city building nothing should put it on research, not wealth (since the convertion is the same for research or tax, and multiplicative factor are not taken into account).


Jabah

PS - @SP - don't let the gouvernor be too paranoid, he always wants more spies than we really wants (he is even getting them before engineer) .

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Wonder - 3GD as there's definite turn advantage from earlier power.

Tech - after radio, maybe industrialism or maybe superconductors. Then up to Artillery/rocketry. Then to Genteics if we need health (which we probably will), otherwise to plastics. Quite a lot depends on what we can get from the AI in trades.

Colonies - don't know. I wouldn't want to spin off the Iron one as that might have enough hammers for SS Thrusters and Casings.

Research vs wealth - wealth is better because it goes to your top line income which you can then use to increase empire-wide research via the slider. Research only affects the output of that particluar city. There's a thread at RB where the mechanics are explained (but I don't remember which one).

 

[Jabah]

off topics on wealth/research

Not sure I understand.

Imagine we can move the slider for each % (instead 10%).
If we have a (civ-wide) base of 1000 commerce (with average 85% research bonus and 100% tax bonus), financially stable at 55-45
550 commerce towards science at 85% bonus -> 1017.5 lb
450 commerce towards tax at 100% bonus -> 900 gd

We put a 100 hammer city on wealth or research : 100lb or 100gd (no bonus)

What is better
1. city on gold, civ on 60-40
---> city 100gd, civ 1110 lb + 800 gd --> 1110 lb + 900 gd
OR
2. city on research, civ on 55-45
city 100lb, civ 1017.5 lb + 900 gd --> 1117.5 lb + 900 gd

To me if your average (civ-wide) convertion rate is better for tax than research, then it is better to build research than wealth (and be able to increase the 'tax' rate not the 'research' rate.

Now I can easily see phases when research rate is better (usually beginning of the game with just library and so tax multiplier, and possibly monastry/ also before bank), but after banks and until laboratories, you are better building research....

 

[LKendter]

Are you sure we want the Pentagon: seems a huge amount of hammers for something that only has value in denying it to the AI?

Actually, IMHO with our being so light on troops an extra promotion sounds good. If another war starts, an extra promotion could be a big help. Besides, it the build doesn't take that long - only 18 turns IIRC.

 

[LKendter]

1. Which Wonder are we saving the GE for ?

I was thinking 3GD, the most critical of the wonders for extra space part production.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

@Jabah - I found the post: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost.php?p=25437&postcount=8

 

[Jabah]

Thks, but indeed, it was written with the hypothesis that you have a better 'conversion' rate for breakers than gold, which , while being quite often true (for reasons explained in the article) is probably false right now (until laboratory).

Anyway, I am a bit like LK, I almost never put a city on wealth/research as long as there is something usefull (even if it take a while) to build

Jabah

edit
We need to check the save to see what our exact civ-wide conversion rate is, since in Uruk we have the opposite of all other cities (research +235% / tax +200%) and Uruk has a huge weight. Depending on our global conversion (research <-> gold) rate, I might be wrong

So I think we should have:
- scientist(s) in Uruk.
- merchant(s) in cities with (better tax bonus than research), scientist(s) in others.
- building research in cities building nothing IF

 

[LKendter]

Anyway, I am a bit like LK, I almost never put a city on wealth/research as long as there is something useful (even if it take a while) to build

I generally use wealth at certain times - if I've over expanded to avoid bankruptcy, toward the end of the game push where taxes will settle it, or all builds are meaningless (game has just a few turns left).

Look at the recent LK culture win, and almost all cities were on wealth to support 100% culture to wrap it ASAP. The final culture push IMHO is the most dangerous time, and I wanted to finish before an unexpected AI war showed up.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

So I think we should have:
- scientist(s) in Uruk.
- merchant(s) in cities with (better tax bonus than research), scientist(s) in others.
- building research in cities building nothing IF

My rule of thumb is scientist in city with Academy (or Oxford), merchants in the rest, wealth if there's nothing worth building* (aside from economic desperation/CV).

*and I consider a lot of buildings/units not worthwhile in most games

 

[Swiss Pauli]

We're still cruising, but sadly our people are dying. Well, some at least: American and Indian culture are crushing our borders. The poor siting of Nibru has cost us the Wheat (which is -2 health in all cities). Lincoln stole three tiles at Kish, so I had to reassign tiles through B-T and Uruk not to lose too many pop up there. Lost 2 I think. Mining Inc exec on the way for Hermitage, and send a Sushi Exec there next for food and culture. Now for the good parts:

What's the reward for this one? I guess it'll pay out. We also completed Broadway and Pentagon (seeing as Abe was learning Assembly I decided to finish it). Cristo in 6 in the capital. Eridu can start RnR after spewing out a few Execs.

We got another GM: I sent him to Egypt and a trade mission will yield 3450g. He's currently in our territory (to save pennies) and his galleon is unmoved. I'd like to cash him then switch to USUF for a short while after Cristo is done to rush some buildings (esp on the islands), then back to REP.

Completed FP in the good island town, which made a 20gpt difference to the cashflow. Early in the set, I cancelled all trade involving shipping out Sushi and Mining resources, and renegotiated for others (blagged Spices for free). Got some more in with Hit Musicals. Forgot to try for Hammy's spare copper, though. Or maybe he wanted silly money. I forget.

Asoka was the 2nd AI to learn Combustion so I bought it for Assembly Line.

 

[LKendter]

We're still cruising, but sadly our people are dying. Well, some at least: American and Indian culture are crushing our borders.

We never thought about this when deciding about FS vs. BUR. If our two border civs are running FS, I suspect that is what caused our problems.

What's the reward for this one?

IIRC we collect more cash per turn.

 

[Refar]

Abe is in Burocracy as well... Asoka is running free speach... I think Spreading Sushi should be enought to hold Abe of - screeny shows Hermitage under construction, which will help as well...

Perhaps cathedral(s?) in Nubru ?

 

[yena]

Got it. Perhaps a cathedral or two in Nibru? I think we should research plastics next for 3GD. Will build managers for the Sid's sushi quest.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
That wheat is critical to our health. I hate to put our HE city on non-military, but 8 turns for Christian Cathedral is worth it. The other one is too expensive.

I don't think Swiss Pauli and I will ever see eye to eye on wealth. I still disagree with Zimbir building wealth.

I would like to get mining executives to our new cities. That may be the only way that we get some production out of them. I have no arguments with the merchant going to Egypt if we get Cristo for some cash rushed help for those islands.

My number one concern is still military. We've improved to fifth, but our island with unique seafood, uranium, coal and oil is still to weakly defended for me. Not sure why the worker is hiding in the city with oil to put a well on.

Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli
Yena (currently playing and already got it)
Refar (on deck)
Jabah

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: learning toward space.

Planned wars - None