LK140 - Trying emperor

[Jabah]

I will have it, but can't promess to play tonight (should manage within 48h anyway).

Seeing that we have a kind of lead in tech (toward Liberalism anyway) and how long the game will last, I would consider an academy instead of 'bulbing'. Either in Uruk or in one of the 'cottage' city (need to check in game which is better).

From what I understood of the 'Reference Sheet', Asoka is not really someone upset by religion différences, so I would revolt to Confuscianism (if that was the big reason not to). Maybe that will please Lincoln a bit (and I would like to trade technologies with him !).

On victory choice, i think it is a bit late anyway to choose culture anyway.
We need to get some boat exploring asap (so liberalism ->Astro if possible ?).

Jabah

 

[Jabah]

T0

Trade MC for Construction+WMap+60g to Asoka (before annoying him a bit if changing religion)
We now can see Hammurabi lands.

T1
Uruk Monastry ->Uni of Sankore
Kish forge->aqueduct

Scientist-> Academy in Uruk

T2
Eridu Monastry->aqueduct
Nibru Monastry->forge

T3
Tech : Machinery->Compass

Ur Ziggurat->Forge

T6
Tech : Compass->Optics

T8
Uruk Uni of sankore (chops outside BFC)-> aqueducs
Lagash forge->aqueduct

Revolt to Organized Religion (as we are in builder mode everywhere)

T9
Convert to Confuscianism

we got
-1 with Asoka (will be -2 at T15)
+2 with Hammurabi
0 with SB
+1 with Lincoln
-3 with Brennus (don't care)

Hammurabi is frightening, all of a suddend he has all our techs + (at least) optics, aesthetics and horse riding while a few turns ago we had machinery and paper on him.

T10
Whip several cities

T11
Eridu aqueducs->Xbow
Ur Forge->monastry
Bad-Tibira Maoi->Lgthouse
Zimbir granary->forge


We have caught several un-identified spies this last turns (Hammurabi would axplain the tech situation ?)

T12
Ur monastry->harbor
(remove the specialist until we have max happy/health or multiplying GPP)

T13
another Spy
Optics->Education
Uruk aqueduct->Spy
Kish aqueduc->caravel

T14
Eridu Xbow->caravel

T15
Uruk Spy->Spy (to go onthe Northen border, as we caught spies there)
Kish Caravel->monastry (for Sankore bonus)


AP election Asoka only possibility (AP built in Dehli for Christianity)
F8 shows that there is only 1 full member (Asoka) 2 voting members (us+SB) for now.
Should we consider changing to christianity at some point to counter Asoka (the only point would be doubling our vote as I don't think SBull will vote for us), maybe better short term is to convert more of our cities (but check that Asoka is not still doing it, or cancel border so he won't get missionaries to Lincoln and Hammurabi ?

Kish caravel is going NE to explore East of Brennus (quite long), because Eridu will finish its caravel next turn (or in 2t, can't remember) and this one should go West to try to get the circumnavigate bonus.

Tech-wise, since we are competing with Hammurabi, I would consider any (decent) trade with anyother AI, with AP built, maybe Asoka will accept to trade Theology (check in 1or 2t when we have the +2 for voted for us).
We should also try to trade toward Litterature as GP farm would be much better with National Epic (and Eridu with Heroic Epic if we have the required promoted unit).

Lincoln is still upset and doesn't want to talk.

For the spy situation, maybe consider changing EP allocation

Demographics are showing no reason to worry : 1st in everything that count and 3rd in soldier (and Ur, our border city towards the misbelievers is stock with troops, slightly outdated except a Xbow).

(for demographics)

Spoiler :

save --> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK140_AD-0700.zip

Jabah

 

[yena]

Good progress, but I'm surprised to find us #1 in land with only 8 cities. Here's hoping that LKendter finds a few big islands during the next set to colonize before the other AIs reach Astronomy, otherwise I think we should consider expanding by force.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Finally got around to looking at this. There's been a lot of going on, I see. Aside from the placement of Nibru, we've contrived to let it stagnate at size 6 Why not give it another one of the capital's farms? And are we allergic to Lighthouses? Nibru doesn't have one and neither does Bad Tibira which has Maui Statues I'd also take the fish from Ur and give it to Zimbir: better two OK cities than one great and once lame one. Additionally, why aren't we whipping? Isn't that the point of Slavery? Finally, do switch on the Gov as he does a better job than the player most of the time (esp in SGs with handovers).

 

[Jabah]

Finally got around to looking at this. There's been a lot of going on, I see. Aside from the placement of Nibru, we've contrived to let it stagnate at size 6 Why not give it another one of the capital's farms? And are we allergic to Lighthouses? Nibru doesn't have one and neither does Bad Tibira which has Maui Statues I'd also take the fish from Ur and give it to Zimbir: better two OK cities than one great and once lame one. Additionally, why aren't we whipping? Isn't that the point of Slavery? Finally, do switch on the Gov as he does a better job than the player most of the time (esp in SGs with handovers).

I am not sure you looked that carefully (or we had different opinions on )

Most cities have been whipped at least once recently (during my turns) and gouvernors should be OFF (my bad for missing one IF there are still some working, but I didn't set them). Some were on with various emphasis but I turned them off (by clicking the gouvenor but I didn't touch the food - production 'emphasis' on, which has no effect, maybe you overlooked them ))

Bad Tibira had little production before Maoi, so Maoi was 1 of the first build (and whip for 3pop) before lighthouse and forge (to be planned). I didn't set this order but would have kind of agreed on it.

Nibru is stable at size 6 and working all not sea tiles, so I don't see a bit need of lighthouse (and Uruk could still gow so need all the FP). Especially since (in my opinion) it was going to be a military training camp.

The fish between Ur and Zimbir : I would consider giving it (temporary) but only after the lighthouse is finished. (and we could discuss if 2 medium cities are better than a sorry fishing village and a good GP farm.

Jabah

PS critiscism still welcome, as I think we are not communicating as much as I would like, but I am ready to defend (most of) my decisions

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK140_AD-0900.CivBeyondSwordSave


700 AD
Nibru gets a lighthouse queued up after the forge. I don't understand the Bad-Tibira lighthouse comment, as it is currently building one.

Since we are in bureaucracy I am not going to stagnate the capitol to help Nibru. It will start growing again after it gets a lighthouse during my round.


820 AD
I just found the missing civ - Ramesses. He has several useful techs, but refuses to trade. I suspect it is because we are the only civ he knows.


890 AD
(IT) We have proven the world is round.

=======================

New Updates
With Christianity being the AP religion I started building Christian temples and monasteries. I won't argue with the free hammers.

Our workers are running out of anything useful to do. I have no problem with them being put to sleep by the capitol.



Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli (currently playing)
Yena (on deck)
Refar
Jabah

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: None

Planned wars - None

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Got it.

The gov should really be on in SGs most of the time as the entire tile selection after growth needs to be reconsidered and most players, myself included, aren't good at this. Emphasis buttons ca steer the gov away from sub-optimal specialists.

As to Maui before a lighthouse, this is just silly: the point of Maui is to get value from sea tiles, but a 1-1-2 is not something you want to work. Add to that the fact that the extra food will help with whip fodder (for Maui) then there's really no proper argument about the better build order.

A fishing village needs seafood, hence the name. You can't argue for not working coast in on city (Nibru) then advocate in another (Zimbir) without your argument looking flawed.

As to whipping, that's a general comment (as were most of mine) and not specfic to the last set. We've sacrificed efficiency for size over the last couple of rounds and that can come back to haunt us on this level.

Strategically, we're probably better advised to take on Asoka rather than Lincoln because annoying an AGG civ (Hamurabi) isn't very wise. However, Asoka's favourite civic is Free Religion and he'll surely adopt it if we trade him Liberalism, so we needn't worry about long-term religious conflict with India, if we decide on a peaceful Space race.

 

[Jabah]

@LK (& SP) : Bad Tibira lighthouse, my bad I made the comments from memory without looking at the save (and it had indeed already a lighthouse).

@SP : Gouvenors (1st I misread your comment, I thought you called using them ). I think LK rules are against them (and I don't want to discuss if they are better or worst than an average player ). Our cities are also not that many and not growing too fast, so checking them every now and again should be the rule (that is what I am doing generally at this stage of a game).

Jabah

 

[LKendter]

I think LK rules are against them (and I don't want to discuss if they are better or worst than an average player ).

The only automation prohibited is workers.

 

[Refar]

As reported in the LK141 thread, my Game-Computer went into a strike, so if/when i should come up please skip me here as well, untill you hear better news...

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I had a look at the save this morning and saw that Hammy has an alarming amout of culture in his cities. Also found player assigned citizens working ocean, not coast. Say Yes to AI-Gov Playing...

 

[LKendter]

I just realized I forgot mention a goto. I have a caravel with missionary heading toward open borders Ramses. He won't trade maps, so this is the only way to scout his land.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Switched on the Govs and sent workers to cottage and farm forest tiles. Worried about this:

Then had an left-right crap event combo:

Whipped some Unis and cottage chopped Oxford to completion. Trundling on to Liberalism and trading tech to Rameses the Backward when this happened:

His initial foray of 4 CII HAs was dealt with, but with a couple more losses than I would have liked

I got Asoka to adopt Confucianism, but he wouldn't cancel with SB Got a message that our religious brothers in Babylon have gifted us Copper :bless: Traded Philo and 40g to Ramy for Feud. Then this

I dont think has has OBs with Asoka, so it's pretty pointless, unlike this:

They'll hit our lands next turn, and will be at Ur's gates in three (unless the HAs suicide on our spears). I upgraded the Archer to a LB (135g) and we can afford more upgrades as i gathered in some cash. Also made this trade (seeing as we can't be denied Lib):

I stopped here as we have a call to make: grab Astro as planned, or bail out for Guns. I think we can survive without Guns, but I think we should vote on it.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/LK140_AD-1020.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Jabah]

@LK (cross-posted with SP)

Scout can't move (inland) without Open Border ?!
Do you mean a spy ?

EDITED (after SP remarks): I need to learn to read carefully (or have more sleep)

 

[Swiss Pauli]

@Jabah - we had OBs but he wouldn't trade maps. I didn't see him and used him up north in our lands.

 

[Jabah]

Could we consider building a "fort" on the desert south of peak (the forced-passage). Probably not now, but as soon as this stack is gone.

If possible, upgrade a spear (or more) to pike, and some axe/sword to maces.

We probably need a few cats, seing that there is no medics in the coming stack...

Jabah

BTW is lincoln still grumpy and not talking

 

[LKendter]

Well this just got UGLY.

I will try and offer some comments tonight when I can look at the game.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Lincoln's huff continues unabated

Defensive thoughts

- We're protective, so bowmen are probably more interesting than melee for defensive duties. We can get Drill1-CG2 LBs/CBs out the box, but only CI Maces (there's a couple on the way south).

- He's not brought any spears, so Elephants would be ideal attackers

- Assuming he starts to bombard, keeping whipping units then, as our culture defence gets low, whip walls. He may suicide on our newly boosted defences, or he may bombard some more.

- He may bypass Ur and go for the capital, but we can out-run him and scramble back because of all the hills and our dense road network.

@Lee - welcome to Emperor

 

[Jabah]

Good point about being protective Xbow - LBow for Defence and Elephant (with a few token cats?) for offence.

We should adjust research to just discovering Liberalism, then run a few turns at 0% research.

Priority upgrade at Ur might be then :
Spear1 -> pike
archer -> lgbow
spear2 -> pike
then if we have a highXP vulture/sword ->mace ?

I had a Xbow on defence at Ur, which I could not see anymore, is he gone somewhere else ?

Also be carefull of a possible landing on the east coast as long as Asoka keeps his border open...

And for the Liberalism vote I am for Astro for the following reasons:
- galleons could help us secure ours shores (short term) before going to colonize the spare islands (1 might be enough to prevent galley from reaching us, while caravel might be attacked).
- musket (even protective ones) are not much better than elephant for our immediat needs
- Astro is far more expensive, so we could 'hand-research' Gunpowder if needed

Jabah

 

[yena]

My vote: turn down research for upgrade gold until the crisis is over, then go for Astronomy as planned.