LK140 - Trying emperor

[Jabah]

T0 (t257)
We have nothing to gain (except more XP) to continue the war, while there might be trouble continuing if SB manages to bribe someone else...
Peace for everything he could give (WM+140g+7gpt)

Now we have a quite big health problem (and cut too many forests too soon in Uruk as we are not even working the new tiles).
No reason for the AI not to have some as well, so cancel the deal where we were giving free resources for (very few) gpt.
Then trade for health ressource and queue grocers (after trade we have now 2 ressources that give health with it).

--> another reason to go to the island is for the extra seafood : we are importing crab (can't find any free ones on the map) and have no clam (plenty on the islands).

As a side note : I am sorry to tell SwissPAuli that the gouvernor (sometimes) sucks : when we have health problem, I prefer to reduce growth while focusing on (1) production to build the proper improvment first and (2) developping cottages

Now that the (main) war is over (stil Brennus to deal), I will try to build more castles for the (temporary) +1 trade and +25%EP and (long term) defence.

Brennus has Open Border only with Sitting Bull, so he can't reach us neither by land nor sea.

Workers (that were lazy sleeping) are sent to build mine on every hills, so if we have coal (or aluminium, uranium...) it will be connected faster and build forts (1 for defence against the east, 1 canal for better communication).

T1-T2
trade Engineering to Ramses for Music+small cash.
then Music to Asoka for drama+big cash.
(900g for us at T2)

T2
Banking->Nationalism

T7
A caravel looked at a celt city to which I was planning to send a galleon (or 2) full of troops to raze and force peace, and decided that there is NO chance with this kind of defence (see below)... (more exploring will show later that it is not the case on the other cities).

T8
send a galleon with settler+ 2x XPed vulture (should be enough, and can't spare better troops) to the barbarian island where the city is defended by 3 unpromoted archer and no culture (arrival T+7/8).

T9
Nationalism->Gunpowder

T10
Asoka wants Astro for PPress+275g (out of 560). PP not being a monopoly means he probably is researching Astro, but I still don't want to trade it around before another AI FULLY discovers it.

Land some troops (2mace+elephant) next to Tolosa (2lgbow+spear), Brennus will sign peace giving 25g. maybe next turn after razing/damaging?

T11
No attack as a CR3 mace having only 27% against a lgbow, I pillage and sink his trireme.

T13 (T170)
Gunpowder->Chemistry (privateer and way for Steel) (changed later)

Get a GP Prophet at lowish odds (30%) ,that is the 'worst' as we were more likely to get Scientist or lower odd Engineer.
The only valid options are either settle (in Uruk) or Golden Age. I move him toward Uruk anyway (will reach next turn)

Trade Gunpowder+Guilds to Hammurabi for PPress+620g+WM (both techs were known by other AIs, Guilds by Sitting Bull, Gunpowder by Sitting Bull and Asoka)
Trade Guilds to Asoka for 620g+ convert to Confuscianism (a bit cheap, but I don't want him to get it from Sitting Bull giving SB money and extra tech, as SB has a very focused ie lacks basic techs but knows expensive ones).

Now we have (at least) Nationalism, liberalism, Banking and Astro on everyone. Asoka is the only with a tech (useless Divine Right) on us.

Seems to be a good situation to pass the game (T170, back on round numbers + several key decisions)

Decisions to take

I. Research
We have 1500+ gold. With research at 90% (losing 85gpt) we can research (my preferences would be):
1. Rep Parts in 5t (way to Rifle) <- my vote
2. Constitut in 6t (way to Democracy)
3. Chemistry in 5t (way to Steel)
4. Mil Tradi in 6t (for Def Pact to be safe for ever!)
5. Economics in 4t (for the GM) not urgent as long as we check that no one has banking, but switch immediatly when one AI discovers banking (and has Education for some lacking it as well).

II. Prophet
Either:
1. GA to speed everything including TajMahal (still around 18t at almost max production). probably my vote as GP is quite useless compare to what we could get later.
2. Settle in Uruk for more production and gold.

III. Brennus
Brennus is now ready to pay 50g for peace.
He is worst ennemy to almost everyone and don't even know Optics, so no pressure.
I would pillage some nets before to force him to pay slightly more, we have a galleon full+caravel healing (for a few turns out of reach in the deep sea. (They could go to barb island if our XPed vulture can't deal with barbarian archers fast enough).


Jabah

Save ---> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK140_AD-1250.zip

PS - Lincoln is still being a grumpy guy and don't want to talk (I have a bit more troops on our border there,just in case, including a lgbow on GOTO).

PS2 - I put some more marks on the map for possible fishing villages, I would raze and rebuild the barbarian city (that why we have a settler in galleon) in order to get workable clam quickly, and use all the island with a second city. All the other fiching village are probably not needed (gain nothing but clam) except if we want to have Sushi (with a GM from Economics?). Make a possible exception for the 'whale' fishing village, but that is a very very sorry place.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

As a side note : I am sorry to tell SwissPAuli that the gouvernor (sometimes) sucks : when we have health problem, I prefer to reduce growth while focusing on (1) production to build the proper improvment first and (2) developping cottages

This assumes that your thinking is right to further slow growth if cities are unhealthy. The Gov and me would disagree: health is a drag, not an absolute cap, so it's still best to grow to max size (and the gov will stagnate if the next growth will cause starvation) and therefore work more tiles and 'naturally' stagnate.

I. Research
We have 1500+ gold. With research at 90% (losing 85gpt) we can research (my preferences would be):
1. Rep Parts in 5t (way to Rifle) <- my vote
2. Constitut in 6t (way to Democracy)
3. Chemistry in 5t (way to Steel)
4. Mil Tradi in 6t (for Def Pact to be safe for ever!)
5. Economics in 4t (for the GM) not urgent as long as we check that no one has banking, but switch immediatly when one AI discovers banking (and has Education for some lacking it as well).

Errm, what about Sci Meth? I don't see the urgent need for Rifles if we're not planning a military win. Right now, the GM from Eco would be good seeing as we can ship him to Egypt.

II. Prophet
Either:
1. GA to speed everything including TajMahal (still around 18t at almost max production). probably my vote as GP is quite useless compare to what we could get later.
2. Settle in Uruk for more production and gold.

If we decide for Space, then I'd go for option 2, or if we decide on some Rifle fueled warring then a GA would be better. I favour the peaceful option.

As to Bren, are we gaining any MMS from the war? If not then we may as well make peace.

 

[LKendter]

Errm, what about Sci Meth? I don't see the urgent need for Rifles if we're not planning a military win. Right now, the GM from Eco would be good seeing as we can ship him to Egypt.

Do we have monasteries for our current religions? I don't want to settle those islands, and not be able to spread our state religion. The AI is lousy at spreading the word of god to odd islands.

 

[Jabah]

Growing with health problem: I generally agree with you, except when you already have for example -2 health, will grow in 18t and could stagnate swapping a basic farmed grasland for a mined plain hills that will make your grocer 20% faster (Uruk at the beginning).
Growth is usefull, but I could see limits when the new population is eating 3food and working crappy tiles. For me (and for you according to a quote in another SG ), a non-financial sea tile is often one - especially if it is the 5th or 6th one.

Sci Meth, I have forgotten about it (I was looking at the F6 and didn't realise we could research that now).
I agree that we want economy for GM, but it is not that urgent as we are the only with pre-requise.
My idea for Rifle is not to attack someone, but to be safe (same idea with Def Pact).
With anyother map I would have say, go for privateer and deny access to colonisation for other AI, but there, the islands are so crap...

Brennus : he is worst ennemy to almost everyone, but we are the only one at war with him, so no MMS points.

Jabah

 

[Refar]

I had built a Monastey in Uruk during one of my turnsets (and i think also in the Wheat-town E from capital - for culture mainly there), but i dont think we would loose a lot by going SciMethod.

A also do like the -> Democracy path with possible/probable SoL start during GA.

-----

I identified the faulty component in my computer (the S-ATA controller), and ordered replacement at the start of the business day (Living in a small town, here you have to order a floppy, if you want to buy one...). The guys at the PC-Store are usually fast, so should be up and running again soon...

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Do we have monasteries for our current religions? I don't want to settle those islands, and not be able to spread our state religion. The AI is lousy at spreading the word of god to odd islands.

Errm, we don't own any shrines, so I'm not sure why we'd want to spread our state religion when going Free Religion might be the wisest move (and let natural spread give the city a religion).

 

[Jabah]

We have enough monastry to spread religion if needed, but Asoka is the ones spreading Xtian (all our reachable cities have been 'visited' by his guys).

I think a monastry will still give 2 hammers (Xtian ones) or 2 research (Confuscian ones) after SciMeth. Will we keep the 10% research (don't think so).

I did build a few monastries (mainly Xtian ones for the AP bonus).
On a side note, our Prophet could have built the confuscianism shrine (or islamic), which means that Hammurabi is not earning millions for 4 civs having confuscianism in (most of) all their cities.

Free religion vs Confuscinism : imho this is not a no-brainer.
Staying in OrgRel Confuscianism is
1. having 3 friends (well 1 good one, a soaking one and a soon to change religion again )
2. 25% bonus on all our buildings including Taj Mahal (and later Statue of Lib?)
3. on top of that we have only 2 religions in our cities, and have millions of happiness ressources (so don't need ONE extra happy)

I won't change until at least Asoka goes to Free Religion and even then I think we should wait for Hammurabi (or have enough military to feel safe both side).

Jabah

 

[LKendter]

Free religion vs Confuscinism : imho this is not a no-brainer.
Staying in OrgRel Confuscianism is
1. having 3 friends (well 1 good one, a soaking one and a soon to change religion again )
2. 25% bonus on all our buildings including Taj Mahal (and later Statue of Lib?)
3. on top of that we have only 2 religions in our cities, and have millions of happiness ressources (so don't need ONE extra happy)

As long as Hammi stays confused I am in no rush to leave OR.

IIRC the hammer bonus for the AP religion stays even when monastaries are completed, so that is another reason to get them built. 4 extra hammers from having the AP religion isn't to be argued with since we aren't shield heavy.

 

[Refar]

The 2 bonus from mansetreies (Apostolic Place) will go away with SciMethod, as will do everything else (+10% basic and +2 Sankore ). Only the Ability to make Missionaries and the 2 basic will stay.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Hammy looked to be going cultural, so I'm not sure we need to fear him. The timing of the OR/FR switch is definitely a bit tricky, and I'd need to look at the game in more detail, but we definitely want FR once we get to Space Parts.

 

[Jabah]

The 2 bonus from mansetreies (Apostolic Place) will go away with SciMethod, as will do everything else (+10% basic and +2 Sankore ). Only the Ability to make Missionaries and the 2 basic will stay.

In that case, I would recommend delaying SciMeth a bit...

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK140_AD-1325.CivBeyondSwordSave


1250 AD
I agree the war with Brennus serves to purpose without gaining MMS. I sign peace with him.

I plan to make Nibru the HE city. Eridu is third best economy city, and I don't want to have the tradition conflict between buildings and units. Nibru can ignore all buildings and I wouldn't care.

I set research to economics to bring it one turn. I will then have to watch the AIs in order to ensure someone else doesn't steal the free GM from us.


1255 AD
I settle the priest in Uruk. This was one of those 55-45 decisions, as a GA to insure Taj sounds very nice.


1280 AD
We lost a mace at high odds, but Hun is razed. The fish and clam city can be built.


1300 AD
Looking more, I don't see the reason to delay economics except to build more castles that will soon be obsolete. I go back to economics now to get the merchant.


1305 AD
GA vs. trade mission isn't that clear, but I go with the trade mission. That was another 55-45 decision.


1310 AD
(IT) Taj starts our first GA.

=======================

New Updates
Do we want National Epic in Ur? If we are going to keep this as our GA farm, we should take advantage of the doubled GP points. I've started it there, but it can be easily cancelled.

There are workboats on go to for our new fishing village with seafood. I also have a galleon with workers heading that way.

The debate for WS can begin. We don't have corporation yet, but I have started working on the needed banks.

I would like to start SoL in Uruk ASAP. While we lack copper, we have an absurd lead so we should still get it.

We need to decide on Rep vs. US for civics.
How soon for FS? Long-term it is better, but it hurts on building SoL. I think Free Market is easy.
OR vs. FR also comes up. With all the building going on, I prefer OR for now.

I didn't make any changes yet, as Democracy completes in 3 turns. We may as well revolt to emancipation for free.

With the next GP coming up shortly my votes are:
Spy - settle in Uruk - we can use the espionage help.
Engineer - save for future wonder.
Scientist - Unsure his best use.

Nibru should go in pure military mode as soon as HE is done. I am getting tired of having a low soldier rating.

Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli (currently playing)
Yena (on deck)
Refar (skip to Feb 11)
Jabah

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: learning toward space.

Planned wars - None

 

[yena]

I cannot check the save now, but from what has been said above I would probably go for Democracy and settle the GP.

Oops: didn't see that the next set had already been played. Pleased to see that LKEndter agreed with me.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Got it for tonight. It looks like we're aiming for Space. Can we confirm?

I don't think FS will beat BUR with Uruk being so good a city. I'll ponder the other civic options as I play.

 

[Jabah]

Is the GM already consummed for the mission.

I would have consider (saving) the GM for sushi, with just a few extra fishing village (don't need +20 food, just +5/6), that way we could have converted Uruk (and Eridu) farms to massive cottage, Nibru could have its hills mined again and Ur be a better GP farm (in which we should build national Epic one indeed, but that is a long time building here ).

To be consider if we are lucky enough to score a second GM.

I would have Oxford and Wall Street in Uruk (and corpo there) IF we get Sushi. (need more cottages).

Jabah

 

[LKendter]

Win target: learning toward space.

Got it for tonight. It looks like we're aiming for Space. Can we confirm?

I think my previous quote says how I feel. I just am not sure if we have a team preference for it.

I don't think FS will beat BUR with Uruk being so good a city. I'll ponder the other civic options as I play.

Hopefully we can get some more team input before the decisions need to be made. I really want to take advantage of the anarchy free swap for as many changes as possible.

Is the GM already consumed for the mission?

No, he only got as far as landing in Egypt.

 

[Jabah]

I think my previous quote says how I feel. I just am not sure if we have a team preference for it.

I would say "plan to go for space, but be ready (military) to take advantage of any major war that could happen involving our direct neighbours (Lincoln and/or Asoka) without having the whole world upset with us"

Hopefully we can get some more team input before the decisions need to be made. I really want to take advantage of the anarchy free swap for as many changes as possible.

I would wait for democrcy to finish and then
FreeMarket for sure and my vote is also for "Emancipation + US" (after a last whipping effort for low production cities)

And possibly much later Free Speech only if we get Sushi for more cottages (especially in Uruk)... could you say I have a one-track mind

No, he only got as far as landing in Egypt.

So Mission or keep for Sushi (need to settle a few fishing village then)

 

[yena]

I'd keep the GM for Sid's too. We seem to be heading towards space, but let's keep a strong army and hope that Asoka or Lincoln are stupid enough to declare on us.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Quiet turns. I finished Demo and started SoL as Lee intimated he'd like us to build it. Personally, I don't think it is worth the price without REP and Copper, so I haven't gone full tilt at it. Asoka can learn Demo now, but he might be racing us to Physics.

The GM would have netted 2550g from a trade mission in Thebes. I preferred this to Sushi at the start of my set as we don't have that many Sushi resources. We now have a low-odds GE: can you say Mining Inc? We have lots of Gold and two Iron. Coal unknown. No Copper (Hammy's spare is being trade to Asoka for Ponies).

Made quite a lot of trades, including a temporary one to Asoka for Marble (now cancelled). Traded in Chemistry for Astro and 155g, shaving 1 turn of Sci Meth. Flogged Paper to SB for 650g. SB has Steel (and OBs with Asoka) so I made this trade:

I guess he could steal a fishing village from us, but that seemed a reasonable price to me. IW started in City 2 as it's on a river.

He speaks!

We should keep an eye on him though: he's on the way to Rifling.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/LK140_AD-1400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[LKendter]

It isn't clear from your post - what new civics did we adopt during the GA?