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LK166, Dutch, CCM, UN victory target
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Thanks for the info on MPPs. I cannot recall ever winning a UN victory. Playing solo I get bored with the late game tedium while marking time until the win and just "roll" a new game.
We cannot trade for Radio, and we can get the first and second tier techs in trade. Getting Radio early means we have a good chance of building ITT for a Telegraph in every city.
I suggested those three cities so they are not on our borders when we extend our Monarchy south by settling the lands from our current southern border to our future cities in what is now Italy.
Thinking on it more, it might be a good idea to not enter the lands of civs with Nationalism/MPP potential when at war. A sudden MPP might make a friend become enemy.
I think Nationalism was only 10k gold if we add saltpeter and iron to Greece. The problem with planting a spy is getting a civ angrier at us if we fail. If we can guess who we would run against (UN) however, we can steal from them.
Edit: Greece will give us Nationalism for only 7800 if we give them all extras (horse, iron, gold, incense,salt). Will do unless someone is against this.
I think Nationalism was only 10k gold if we add saltpeter and iron to Greece. The problem with planting a spy is getting a civ angrier at us if we fail. If we can guess who we would run against (UN) however, we can steal from them.
Edit: Greece will give us Nationalism for only 7800 if we give them all extras (horse, iron, gold, incense,salt). Will do unless someone is against this.
Last edited:
Preturn:
Put Daidu on University with the idea of a prebuild. Will take 5 turns or 7 on battlefield med, so can catch xray if we get earlier than the 8.
There are furs north of France. We can either use a settler or a colony so we don't have to pay for it. Looks like we could also build a town in mountains to get coffee near Brazil.
There is even gems not in a town radius we could get by going around Brazil to the Western coast.
Gifted tech including RR to get several civs on the other continent to polite. Right now it is really only the tech leaders that are not Polite (e.g. Russia, China, Greece) as well as Spain, South Africa who we will likely fight so haven't granted tech. Inca are polite from before despite being tech leaders now.
We may want to consider gifting a tech if we get it first to get to polite for Russia and China. This assumes Greece will remain the 2nd strongest player. I also think any major spy action should be with Greece so we don't lower our rep with other civs.
IBT: China and South Africa form a MPP. I was thinking this as a potential danger, a civ with Nationalization can make MPP with one of our opponents. South Africa declares war on the Greeks. So does Egypt. Likely the MPP kicking in.
1864 AD: Rifles next to Rouen do well and capture the city without loss. Capture Orleans with one retreat. Dijon falls to our Elite troops without loss either. Attack Amiens with a mix of Rifle and Dragoon and lose 3 Rifle. We have also captured 7 Workers so far.
Battle for Chartres is annoying as our last Dragoon fails to take out the 1 hp defender guarding the city. We use our few healthy units to attack Tours which is within 1 turn of our RR. Start running out of healthy units, so road to the Elite Dijon force which had extra.
Realize I can reach Chartres from Dijon by using a great Artist. Do so and get a leader (rushed factory) and capture the city. Found 3 fortified Camel Corps which is enough to capture Grenoble.
There are 2 French cities remaining. It will take 2 turns to get to them with some Riflestacks Elephantium set up. Kill the Adventurers on the map losing one Rifle. Their mobility makes them dangerous. Gain one Great Artist and Worker using a Lawyer on a stack of two workers.
Not going to declare war on Italy yet. We have no units healthy enough to commit to doing anything. I did road to close to Byzantium.
Injured units in Capital to heal.
Also used some roading teams to get water to Austrian cities instead.
1866 AD: Decide to declare war on Italy this turn. Capture Byzantium without loss. Use Artist to reach Viroconium which also falls without loss. Gain a Great Artist using our Lawyers so use it in Virconium to reach another city. Capture Hispalis without loss. Lugdunum the city near Virconium is also captured without loss (one dragoon does retreat from a Pike).
Move units toward Brundisium.
IBT: Not sure what I was thinking last playing session. I sent units into enemy territory last round (see image below) possibly because there were so few Italian units in the cities we captured. The result was a blood bath on both sides, there were a lot more fast Italian units than I was expecting - especially Camel units. The stacks sent into enemy territory don't survive. In any case the correct move would have been to capture the cities but not advance toward the next ones and let the AI come to us.
Better news is that Moscow completes National Monument before Scientific Method is known.
1868: Two new tech are known to the AI, corporation and improved ammunition which don't have Wonders (exept for the Canadian one) so hopefully the AI work on National Monument will be lost. I had already checked and the stronger cities building National Monument were not coastal so cannot switch to complete Antartic.
For France we capture the last two cities. The attackers are rifles so we lose 4-5 rifles against due to poor RNG and no retreat. One is also lost for the city.
For Italy, we can still capture the two cities on the far side of their core. This is Lutetia and Brundisium.
Otherwise I kill some reachable units and fortify other positions that the AI can reach. Get lucky gaining 3 leaders and 2 Artists.
Building more troops as I didn't really have enough for all I wanted to do.
IBT: One knight loses to a Rifle.
We gain Antarctic Expedition.
1970 AD: We can prebuild Arms race using Battlefield Medicine (sci meth in 3, Battlefield in 4)
Clear the fast Italian units we can reach but don't advance as the slow units are about to arrive.
IBT: Russia demands Saltpeter. Given the variant I give them it - normally I would refuse. They also try to plant a spy.
1972 AD: Slow units are all heading north instead, so I will line up an attack on Veii.
Attack what units I can. We lose a Dragoon.
Clear wetlands around our Jungle cities. All towns are linked by rails.
Gained a great artist
1973 AD: Capture Veii without loss. Gain 2 Great Artists killing italian fast units in our territory. Use on on Veii so we can reach size 23 Cumae losing one unit.
Move a stack toward Rome including a stack that runs out of movement one turn early.
Notes:
Stopping here on turn 260. My weekend will be busy again so playing 10 would not likely finish (I think this is 5 but didn't count).
Rome should fall next turn and with an artist we can reach Antium. That will give us most of the core. Most Roman units are North of Antium. Utrecht has the Artists. Capital has healing units.
A lot of South African units are by-passing our city Hovid for some war to the North.
Russia is acting fairly belligerent. Might be nice to change to 'polite' if we can.
We are missing two techs improved Ammunition and Corporation. We get Sci Method next turn. Chances are fairly high that us getting it will also allow the AI to get it (since the price reduces) losing our ability to trade, so don't be surprised if all the tech leaders have it next turn. We can switch Battlefield med in seaside heights to Arms Race and Daidu steam Roller to Xray. I think Arms race should be 2 turns so I think we can get it first even if the AI also gets it. Xray will be harder as it is 6-7 turns.
Assuming we get arms race we can trade but might also consider getting tech leaders to polite by gifting a tech. I did get China to polite with a resource.
Put Daidu on University with the idea of a prebuild. Will take 5 turns or 7 on battlefield med, so can catch xray if we get earlier than the 8.
There are furs north of France. We can either use a settler or a colony so we don't have to pay for it. Looks like we could also build a town in mountains to get coffee near Brazil.
There is even gems not in a town radius we could get by going around Brazil to the Western coast.
Gifted tech including RR to get several civs on the other continent to polite. Right now it is really only the tech leaders that are not Polite (e.g. Russia, China, Greece) as well as Spain, South Africa who we will likely fight so haven't granted tech. Inca are polite from before despite being tech leaders now.
We may want to consider gifting a tech if we get it first to get to polite for Russia and China. This assumes Greece will remain the 2nd strongest player. I also think any major spy action should be with Greece so we don't lower our rep with other civs.
IBT: China and South Africa form a MPP. I was thinking this as a potential danger, a civ with Nationalization can make MPP with one of our opponents. South Africa declares war on the Greeks. So does Egypt. Likely the MPP kicking in.
1864 AD: Rifles next to Rouen do well and capture the city without loss. Capture Orleans with one retreat. Dijon falls to our Elite troops without loss either. Attack Amiens with a mix of Rifle and Dragoon and lose 3 Rifle. We have also captured 7 Workers so far.
Battle for Chartres is annoying as our last Dragoon fails to take out the 1 hp defender guarding the city. We use our few healthy units to attack Tours which is within 1 turn of our RR. Start running out of healthy units, so road to the Elite Dijon force which had extra.
Realize I can reach Chartres from Dijon by using a great Artist. Do so and get a leader (rushed factory) and capture the city. Found 3 fortified Camel Corps which is enough to capture Grenoble.
There are 2 French cities remaining. It will take 2 turns to get to them with some Riflestacks Elephantium set up. Kill the Adventurers on the map losing one Rifle. Their mobility makes them dangerous. Gain one Great Artist and Worker using a Lawyer on a stack of two workers.
Not going to declare war on Italy yet. We have no units healthy enough to commit to doing anything. I did road to close to Byzantium.
Injured units in Capital to heal.
Also used some roading teams to get water to Austrian cities instead.
1866 AD: Decide to declare war on Italy this turn. Capture Byzantium without loss. Use Artist to reach Viroconium which also falls without loss. Gain a Great Artist using our Lawyers so use it in Virconium to reach another city. Capture Hispalis without loss. Lugdunum the city near Virconium is also captured without loss (one dragoon does retreat from a Pike).
Move units toward Brundisium.
IBT: Not sure what I was thinking last playing session. I sent units into enemy territory last round (see image below) possibly because there were so few Italian units in the cities we captured. The result was a blood bath on both sides, there were a lot more fast Italian units than I was expecting - especially Camel units. The stacks sent into enemy territory don't survive. In any case the correct move would have been to capture the cities but not advance toward the next ones and let the AI come to us.
Better news is that Moscow completes National Monument before Scientific Method is known.
1868: Two new tech are known to the AI, corporation and improved ammunition which don't have Wonders (exept for the Canadian one) so hopefully the AI work on National Monument will be lost. I had already checked and the stronger cities building National Monument were not coastal so cannot switch to complete Antartic.
For France we capture the last two cities. The attackers are rifles so we lose 4-5 rifles against due to poor RNG and no retreat. One is also lost for the city.
For Italy, we can still capture the two cities on the far side of their core. This is Lutetia and Brundisium.
Otherwise I kill some reachable units and fortify other positions that the AI can reach. Get lucky gaining 3 leaders and 2 Artists.
Building more troops as I didn't really have enough for all I wanted to do.
IBT: One knight loses to a Rifle.
We gain Antarctic Expedition.
1970 AD: We can prebuild Arms race using Battlefield Medicine (sci meth in 3, Battlefield in 4)
Clear the fast Italian units we can reach but don't advance as the slow units are about to arrive.
IBT: Russia demands Saltpeter. Given the variant I give them it - normally I would refuse. They also try to plant a spy.
1972 AD: Slow units are all heading north instead, so I will line up an attack on Veii.
Attack what units I can. We lose a Dragoon.
Clear wetlands around our Jungle cities. All towns are linked by rails.
Gained a great artist
1973 AD: Capture Veii without loss. Gain 2 Great Artists killing italian fast units in our territory. Use on on Veii so we can reach size 23 Cumae losing one unit.
Move a stack toward Rome including a stack that runs out of movement one turn early.
Notes:
Stopping here on turn 260. My weekend will be busy again so playing 10 would not likely finish (I think this is 5 but didn't count).
Rome should fall next turn and with an artist we can reach Antium. That will give us most of the core. Most Roman units are North of Antium. Utrecht has the Artists. Capital has healing units.
A lot of South African units are by-passing our city Hovid for some war to the North.
Russia is acting fairly belligerent. Might be nice to change to 'polite' if we can.
We are missing two techs improved Ammunition and Corporation. We get Sci Method next turn. Chances are fairly high that us getting it will also allow the AI to get it (since the price reduces) losing our ability to trade, so don't be surprised if all the tech leaders have it next turn. We can switch Battlefield med in seaside heights to Arms Race and Daidu steam Roller to Xray. I think Arms race should be 2 turns so I think we can get it first even if the AI also gets it. Xray will be harder as it is 6-7 turns.
Assuming we get arms race we can trade but might also consider getting tech leaders to polite by gifting a tech. I did get China to polite with a resource.
The AI’s normal research path is Nationalism -> The Corporation -> Improved Ammunition → either Fascism or Communism. So it is most likely the Ai is researching a type of Government. Therefore, we can wait until they learn A government and 3 turns before Trading Scientific Method (this should give Daidu enough time to finish a Wonder).
We need to be careful. Moscow might be able to build either X-Ray Machine or Arms Race in 2 turns. (The AI’s cost to build either wonder is 360 shields and Moscow could very easily be producing 180 – 200 shields per turn).
I would suggest that all the hills at Daidu get railed to hopefully it can produce over 100 shields per turn and complete a wonder in 5 turns. I doubt it can get to over 125 shields per turn to complete a wonder in 4 turns.
I would build Arms Race in Daidu and X-Ray Machine in Seaside Heights. Seaside should than build a power plant followed by Theory of Relativity. I would then build Wall Street and Commercial Dock in Seaside Heights.
We need to be careful. Moscow might be able to build either X-Ray Machine or Arms Race in 2 turns. (The AI’s cost to build either wonder is 360 shields and Moscow could very easily be producing 180 – 200 shields per turn).
I would suggest that all the hills at Daidu get railed to hopefully it can produce over 100 shields per turn and complete a wonder in 5 turns. I doubt it can get to over 125 shields per turn to complete a wonder in 4 turns.
I would build Arms Race in Daidu and X-Ray Machine in Seaside Heights. Seaside should than build a power plant followed by Theory of Relativity. I would then build Wall Street and Commercial Dock in Seaside Heights.
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I wonder if this is premature. Until we are close to the UN vote there is a high chance our relations will go down.
Ya, I was waiting to boost Daidu's shields so the prebuild wouldn't go over. Next turn all the random wetland work can concentrate on Daidu.
Roading to Rome is likely the only competing task.
If the AI does get Sci method next turn, I would concentrate on getting the arms race in seaside heights. Otherwise Joes plan sounds fine.
Roading to Rome is likely the only competing task.
If the AI does get Sci method next turn, I would concentrate on getting the arms race in seaside heights. Otherwise Joes plan sounds fine.
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Early set teaser:
I went with Seaside Heights for Arms Race. The AIs haven't gotten it yet, and I wanted the guaranteed option. I grabbed electricity and atomic theory. I'm debating if that was a mistake. I really like radio for the free telegraph wonder.
I went with Seaside Heights for Arms Race. The AIs haven't gotten it yet, and I wanted the guaranteed option. I grabbed electricity and atomic theory. I'm debating if that was a mistake. I really like radio for the free telegraph wonder.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Atomic Theory is the biggest milestone in CCM, IMO. Combat settlers are just that good!
Electricity -> Atomic Theory -> Radio and a good chance to build ITT was the way to go. We can trade for any of the other techs you could have got.
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Science is so rough this game. IMO we can't afford to waste population on combat settlers. I'm building a lot of steamrollers, but they come with a payback of growing other cities. We really need better science rate. 12 turns for first on radio is insane.
It may be worth declaring an end to the warring Era and go with Democracy for the faster science. I think Italy can be the last civ to fight for this variant.
Democracy certainly was a large part of our 4 turn research last game.
Info from LK165-1883 AD (I used 1883AD since 1873AD was last year of our golden age).
LK165-1883AD - 53 cities, 859 population, 78 scientists
LK166-1873AD - 65 cities, 771 population, 57 scientists
The extra 88 population would have be worth about the same as 88 scientists or 350 more beakers per turn and the extra 21 scientists an additional 84 beakers per turn.
The rest of the reason we we at 4 turn research was the extra 1 gold of income per worked tile and being able to research at 100%
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1873 AD (0)
I take a look at our cities. There is still way too much development needed. Aussig is typical of the problem with no irrigated plains. Hannover is working 8 hills without mines. A lot of the new French towns are terrible with being mostly hills. I don’t see how they will ever get large.
I swap some builds to steamroller. I rush some in smaller cities with 2+ undeveloped tiles being used.
The UN doesn’t show up until the beginning of the next age. I think the work will still pay off.
I give Greece coal for $2,172.
I give Japan industrialization for $17 and $156/T.
I ship Canada horses for $16 and $45/T.
I pick up some scraps of money for world map.
(IT) Scandinavia declares war on Greece.
Russia declares war on Greece.
I watch a lot of Italian troops march north of Antium. I have no clue what they are up to.
I take a look at our cities. There is still way too much development needed. Aussig is typical of the problem with no irrigated plains. Hannover is working 8 hills without mines. A lot of the new French towns are terrible with being mostly hills. I don’t see how they will ever get large.
I swap some builds to steamroller. I rush some in smaller cities with 2+ undeveloped tiles being used.
The UN doesn’t show up until the beginning of the next age. I think the work will still pay off.
I give Greece coal for $2,172.
I give Japan industrialization for $17 and $156/T.
I ship Canada horses for $16 and $45/T.
I pick up some scraps of money for world map.
(IT) Scandinavia declares war on Greece.
Russia declares war on Greece.
I watch a lot of Italian troops march north of Antium. I have no clue what they are up to.
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1874 AD (1)
The assault of Rome begins. I kill 6 pikes and 1 camel. I lost 2 artillery pieces and 1 dragoon. (7-3)
I gain $25 and 1 worker. It comes with the obsolete Limes. It gets an immediate culture bomb.
Seaside heights will build Arms Race, since it can be completed next turn. This is the more critical wonder, so I want to secure that first.
Workers head toward Daidu to reduce the time X-Ray Machine. I get it down to 4 turns from 5 turns.
I kill Italy: 2 pikes. (9-3)
I kill South Africa: 1 pike, 1 British Bombard and 1 crossbow. (12-3)
I gain 1 artist. I occupied this space to force the units onto flat lands for more artist and worker fishing.
(IT) I decline an MPP with Israel. I don’t want to risk a messy chain of wars.
Arms Race is completed. I take electricity and atomic theory. Next up is radio for the free telegraphs to reduce corruption.
The assault of Rome begins. I kill 6 pikes and 1 camel. I lost 2 artillery pieces and 1 dragoon. (7-3)
I gain $25 and 1 worker. It comes with the obsolete Limes. It gets an immediate culture bomb.
Seaside heights will build Arms Race, since it can be completed next turn. This is the more critical wonder, so I want to secure that first.
Workers head toward Daidu to reduce the time X-Ray Machine. I get it down to 4 turns from 5 turns.
I kill Italy: 2 pikes. (9-3)
I kill South Africa: 1 pike, 1 British Bombard and 1 crossbow. (12-3)
I gain 1 artist. I occupied this space to force the units onto flat lands for more artist and worker fishing.
(IT) I decline an MPP with Israel. I don’t want to risk a messy chain of wars.
Arms Race is completed. I take electricity and atomic theory. Next up is radio for the free telegraphs to reduce corruption.
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1875 AD (2)
Lee's Lawyer arrives. Budapest gets a rushed factory.
It is Furry is founded. I got us a permanent source of furs.
The stacks moving toward Lugdunum are unreal in size. Enough junk can be death by 1000 cuts. I am holding off more attacks to get ready to start slaughtering these stacks.
I kill Italy: 1 pike. (13-3)
I kill South Africa: 3 knights. (16-3)
I gained 2 artists.
[End of session 1]
(IT) Turkey and Scandinavia sign a MPP.
Turkey completes their unique wonder.
Lee's Lawyer arrives. Budapest gets a rushed factory.
It is Furry is founded. I got us a permanent source of furs.
The stacks moving toward Lugdunum are unreal in size. Enough junk can be death by 1000 cuts. I am holding off more attacks to get ready to start slaughtering these stacks.
I kill Italy: 1 pike. (13-3)
I kill South Africa: 3 knights. (16-3)
I gained 2 artists.
[End of session 1]
(IT) Turkey and Scandinavia sign a MPP.
Turkey completes their unique wonder.
