LK28 - Regent training.

[LKendter]

Cornith - The direction you build the city is good - the AI will expand TOWARD you.
You should to the same back, unless a city spot is critical.

City location - Compare your red location with my black location.

We already have 2 coastal cities, and should see another s / se of Athens.
The need for a coastal city doesn't influence things.

Let's count shields -
Cornith current location 2 hill, 6 water, 1 forest, 4 bonus grassland, 7 grassland.
Natural shields = 7, food = 31
My black X = 2 hill, 4 forest, 4 bonus grassland, 9 grassland, 1 water
Natural shields = 14, food = 34
The black X city uses ALL tiles near the capitial, your location wastes 1 grassland, 2 forest, 1 hill that NO other city will

use.
Black X gains 8 natural shields. In addition 3 more forest that can be chopped to grasslands - once out of depostism, the

hills will provide plenty of extra shields.

The instincts say go coast, but look at the city value. Plus, you want LITTLE wasted tiles near the capital.
Some can't be avoided with this layout, but...


The Pyramids - OK, this is regent, you have a good chance, however...
However, if going for a wonder - dedicate at least one worker to improveing the city building the wonder
Failure to do so will lose the wonder.

Workers - we are up to FOUR cities, and have just 1 worker!
There is an debate exactly how many are needed by many players, but this is clearly TO LITTLE.
We need at least one more worker ASAP, probably more with going for a wonder.


Settlers - we are in expansion mode, but ZERO settlers on the way?
hotrod0823 needs to start one.





hotrod0823 - Playing
Trickey - on deck
Juliennew -
curufinwe -
Chieftess -
rangers85 -


Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[rangers85]

Actually, there's 2 workers, they're stacked right now.

 

[hotrod0823]

I have the game will try to play 10 and post soon.

Hotrod

 

[hotrod0823]

1500 BC (0): Survey the situation, 3 warriors out exploring. Diplo: Zulus have math but want an arm and a leg, 4 cities. Egypt no new tech but 6 cities.

Domestic front: Veto the Pyramids, switch to settler, grow in 5 get settler in 5. Can't due much with the other cities to many shields wasted if they are switched.

1475 BC (1): Split workers one stays with Thermopylae, the other goes to Sparta.

1450 BC (2): Mines start at Thermopylae, Move some warriors, more exploration.

1425 BC (3): Corinth builds warrior starts worker, grow in 5, worker in 5. E warrior stops near by barb camp. Barbs are out and all our warrior are to the North, yikes!!

1400 BC (4): More warrior moves. Settler next turn in Athens.

1375 BC (5): Settler in athens, start Hopilite (7) turns, Can build Hopilite then start another settler or worker out of Athens. Disperse barbs +25 gold.

Half way diplo check: No changes math still too expensive!

1350 BC (6): Granary at sparta Start another settler. Athens settler moving towrd hills to the NW, with game, and bonus grasslands with little overlap with Corinth.

1325 BC (7): Continue moving settler and Northern warriors, writing next turn.

1300 BC (8): Corinth worker complete, start a temple. Mines finished at Thermopylae, start roads.

Writing finishes start Lit for Libraries and posibly the GL!

Write embassy with Zulus for 55 gold, they are building pyramids, 89 turns away, captial is size 3.
Write embassy with Egypt for 65 gold, they are building pyramids, 51 turns away, would we have gotten it, not really sure??

Try to shop writing around but they are low balling, zulus offered 10 gold, Egypt 34. NO trades, yet.

1275 BC (9): Set lux to 20%, missed Thermopylae going into riots . Found Delphi on the hills NW of Athens. Start warrior. Research now at 50%, lit in 27 with -1 gpt.

1250 BC (10): MM at Sparta to get settler in 4 growth to 4 in 4. Temple at Thermopylae next turn recommend a warrior to keep the peace and allow lux to be turned down.

Diplo check: Zulus got writing, will now sell to Egypt for their 34 gold. Must be why he only offered 10 for it.


Hotrod

I recommend one warrior at Thermopylae then a barracks to supply vet hopilite to all the cities.




LK 28 - 1250 BC

 

[LKendter]

Workers - The count is up to 3

Diplomacy - not bad - didn't jump the gun and sell writing to soon.
Realized when to grab what you could from Egypt.

Settlers - we are in expansion mode - 1 spotted.

City MM - Sparta is NOT using the double shield grassland where the worker is.
Switch to that save 1 turn on settler.

Summary - Good plan - 1 military city with vet units is something I will NEVER argue with



City Place - V2 - Delphi is a bad location!
I wish I had someplace to refer you guys to for good city placements.

Consider my placement of the 2 cities.
I gained an ADDITIONAL second ring city
I can NOT stress enough how important this is.
You have a limited number of near capitial - productive city.
The placement of Delphi THREW AWAY A 2nd ring city.
My locations have a solid border lock, and you can snag the hugh dye city block next.

City placement rule #1 - maximize the number of PRODUCTIVE, HIGH SHIELD cities

If I was up I would switch Delphi to Settler and abandon the city - the location is that bad.



hotrod0823 - Playing
Trickey - on deck
Juliennew -
curufinwe -
Chieftess -
rangers85 -


Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[Sullla]

I wish I had someplace to refer you guys to for good city placements.

A good place for where to place cities? Well, a dotmap from just about any RBD succession game will do, provided the reasons for those sites are included as well.

Somewhat off-topic: Sirian, I think the F6 advisor screen has been changed since the 1.16f patch under which RBD7 was played. In a game under 1.21f, I was completely isolated and well behind on tech. WELL behind on tech. Like "I'm researching Mathematics while another civ just completed the Sistine Chapel" isolated. But my science advisor still said that I was "moderately advanced" despite the fact that I was a good 15 techs behind the rest of the world, as I discovered when I made contact. I may have a picture somewhere, but don't count on it. I would guess that this was changed in a patch at some point in time in the past, but regardless my recent experiences VERY strongly suggest that the F6 advisor now compares you only to civs that you have contact with.

 

[hotrod0823]

Now I know what happens when your wife wants you to shut the darn civ off!

Hotrod

Oh well thats what training is for I guess.

LK - was it a mistake to veto the Pyramids?

 

[LKendter]

Veto of a wonder is a hard item to give a solid rule to. Outside of the Great Library (especially in always war), and Lighthouse if an island start - I am no longer as big of a fan of ancient wonders. However, what wonders to build is very much a PREFERENCE. The one way it would be weed - if you WASTED shields to do so.

The ancient age is about expansion. The question becomes is the wonder worth less cities, and weaker military - which could lead to an ancient war which general favors the AI.

Now veto of ToE, Smith's, Hoover, etc I would call The expansion phase if over, and you are trying to build a economic / shield powerhouse to support your efforts.

 

[Trickey]

can i play now?

 

[LKendter]

hotrod0823 -
Trickey - Playing <<<<<<<
Juliennew - on deck
curufinwe -
Chieftess -
rangers85 -

 

[Trickey]

ok im up, ill have my turns up ny tommorow at noon.

 

[Chieftess]

umm... did this game die this quickly?

 

[LKendter]

hotrod0823 -
Trickey (SKIPPED)
Juliennew - Playing <<<<
curufinwe - on deck
Chieftess -
rangers85

 

[Juliennew]

Preturn - Leave Delphi on warrior for the moment (will change to settler after the warrior's constructed). Micromanage Sparta. Settler will be finished in 3 turns instead of 4.

1225BC (1) - Athens finish hoplite. Switch to Settler. Fortify the hoplite. Send the warrior who was in Athens to Thermopylae. Thermopylae finish temple. Switch to Barracks. Exploring. One of our warrior attacks a barb camp ---> Our warrior dies. Move the Thermopylae worker to the iron hill to make a road. Switch luxuries to 10% and science to 70%. Litterature in 19 turns instead of 22. +0G/Turn. Exploring

1200 (2) - Thermopylae worker begin road's building on the iron's hill. Exploring.

1175BC (3) - Sparta finish settler. Switch to temple. Exploring.

1150BC (4) - Delphi finish warrior. Switch to settler. 15 turns to go.

1125BC (5) - Thermopylae expands his influence. Iron will soon be available. Managing workers. Exploring.

1100BC (6) - Exploring

1075BC (7) - Athens finish settler. Switch to temple. Pharsalos founded. Zulu's warrior spotted near Pharsalos. Exploring.

1050BC (8) - Iron available. Exploring.

1025BC (9) - Managing workers. Exploring.

1000BC (10) - Thermopylae builds barracks. Switch to Hoplite. Exploring.

State of Greece :
6 Cities
1 settler
3 workers
20% Tax - 70% Science - 10% Luxuries
120 Gold
+0G/per turn
8 turns to go for Literature.

Notes :
We should use Sparta to pump out settlers as soon as his temple is finished. I'm sending the corinth worker to Athens with road building between these cities. As soon as this worker reach Athens, we should use it to develop Athens for max shield in order to build the Great Library when literature will be discovered. The settlers east of Athens is at the spot I wanted him tou found a new city. You can veto it if you think there's a better spot. Like Hotrold said, we should use Thermopylae to pump out vet Hoplites. Only four turns between each of them. We should also pump out some more workers from a town. For Delphi, I'm agree with LK, we should abandon it and follow his city founding plan. The worker near the settler builds a road for the new city connected as soon as possible to Athens. Zulu's warrior cruising near our borders. He's only exploring I think. We must expand fast toward the Zulus now !!

 

[Juliennew]

I forgot to upload the save
Here it is

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by Juliennew
As soon as this worker reach Athens, we should use it to develop Athens for max shield in order to build the Great Library when literature will be discovered.

Build the Great Library? In a Regent game? It's not worth the 400 shields it costs to build it. If you're having trouble staying caught up in tech in a Regent game, you have bigger problems than that. Those shields would be far better spent producing more settlers to get more cities faster than in building a wonder for so many turns. Wonders just aren't worth the effort most of the time in Civ3, and especially the Great Library.

Expect LKendter to put a big veto stamp on this, and with good cause.

 

[LKendter]

Workers - Check out the worker by Cornith.
Worker activies -
Rule #1 - Work the best tiles first.
Rule #2 - Irrigation / Mines first -
exception: Resource / luxuries connection critical - then road first

Rule #1 and #2 were broke - There are two grasslands with SHIELDS - develop these first.
We are up to 6 cities, and still 3 workers - we need more.

Diplomacy - Was any performed? You summary gives no clue.
I hope it was simply nothing of interest - you should report in summary if nothing of interest. It looks like you MISSED a trading chance - buy math for < 100 from Egypt - I didn't haggle down.
It is better to buy tech if all known civs have it.

Settlers - we are in expansion mode -
If you intend to abandon Delphi, the city must be in NO FOOD mode. Take the grassland worker and switch to a taxman.

City MM - No critical mistakes.

Summary - You passed on a good idea of your intentions

Military - A hoplite every 4 turns with barracks

City Placement - Why are we sending a settler below Athens? Read your OWN comment.

We must expand fast toward the Zulus now !!

This city is going the WRONG direction. You want to snag that block of dyes.
Money = Power. Luxuries = money. This game is about resources / luxuries.
Don't believe me - check out LK25. A lot of rivers (extra money) and nice luxuries clumps.
The game was a blowout despite EMPEROR - reason - massive cash flow.

Great Library - I agree with Sullla. VETO.
I general prefer to build NO ancient wonders except Colossus.
The ancient era is city expansion time - any wonder during the ancient can cost cities.
I won't consider wonders until the middle ages when expansion mode is done.
My wonder comments were bad before on the Great Library - I meant Always war or isolated start is where it is worth the bother.

hotrod0823 -
Trickey - in limbo - needs to confirm interest or dropped.
Juliennew -
curufinwe - Playing
Chieftess - on deck
rangers85 -


Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[Juliennew]

I gave a visit to Shaka and Cleopatra at the beginning but because of the treasury's not growing, I didn't try to buy Math. The advices are noted.

 

[Juliennew]

ZZZZZZZZ zzzzzzzz ZZZZZZZZZ zzzzzzzzzz ..........

 

[LKendter]

hotrod0823 -
Trickey - in limbo - needs to confirm interest or dropped - 24 hours to dropped.
Juliennew -
curufinwe - in limbo - needs to confirm interest or dropped.
Chieftess - Playing
rangers85 - on deck

This is getting BAD with dropouts - what is with trainging day games and drop problems??

I am looking for an additional player