LK38 - PTW, Deity Challenge

Originally posted by Sirian
Sometimes the best thing you can do on your turn is to suck it up and leave the glory for the next guy. Sure, if you've got an open shot, take it. But if you don't, then pass the ball to the guy who is open. You'll get credit for the assist.
- Sirian
Yup, there's nothing like opening up a game to an awesome setup. Me, I'm actually one of the players who prefers to do the setting up, to devote my ten turns to getting everything sitting right in place for the next player to open up a can of whoop-a$$ cola on the AI. When I'm handed that big, pointy stick I feel the pressure to wield it just right, but if I hand it to someone and see them masterfully execute it, it gives me that warm, fuzzy feeling inside too that I was a part of a grand scheme, and a team effort.

In RBP1, I was quite happy to have spent alot of my one set of ten shipping a TON of MDI's right up to the Ottoman & Arab borders & parking them, and rather than trying to conquor three civs on my turn, just beat up on Korea. When the player who followed me opened up the game and proceeded to use all those well-placed units to wipe out the Ottomans & Arabs in record time, it made me feel all warm & fuzzy too :)
 
I second Sirian's comments. He also described a lot of the current problems with the Houston Rockets basketball team (and I'm not talking about their penchant for whipping the capitol). They are a collection of talent that will be super-tough in the near future, but they have a couple of high-quality guards who often put pressure on themselves to make something happen and then fire up subpar shots at the end of the shot clock. The worst part of that is the guards have good passing ability and can really make the offense click when they work as a part of the team.

Anyway, that last part was more of a :rant: about the Rockets than commentary about our current team. The main points are that we (1) don't whip Carthage unless absolutely necessary and (2) operate as a cohesive unit that tries to pick up where the other guy left off while setting up our successor for a good round. We're in solid shape!
 
:mad: I left my PTW disk at the hotel, so I won’t have access to it again until late Sunday night (playing time doubtful that night). To avoid delaying the game, I will swap places with Reagan. No rush for Reagan to get back, as I will be stretched on Monday with 3 games due. I am glad to pick up some part time work, but I already squeeze 3 billing days in at night (this year :eek: ) which really eat into my gaming time.

LKendter (on deck)
Reagan (currently playing)
Sirian
Gothmog
Speaker

Remember, 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
 
Got it. Because we have extra time during my turn, I thought I'd get some consensus about our next city site. Given the likelihood that we'll lose the double-cow spot, we have four choices: (1) settle on the Wines site on our eastern border, near Germany; (2) settle the last first/second "tweener" site west of Carthage, by the Iron; (3) drop a Settler on a boat and see how the land to our south looks; or (4) aggressively settle by the Mongols and snag some Dyes (see attached pic). Before I begin moving our current Settler, please let me know your preference.

the pic
 
So that the team can see it

citysite.JPG



@Reagan - to get the picture in your post
!img]www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/citysite.JPG !/img]

Replace the ! with a [
 
My feelings on Red Dot

**NO**
1) This is a cultural suicide city. It is surround on 3 sides the the Mongols, and can NEVER control it full 21 squares.
2) If we are lucky, it will simply flip to the Mongols. More likely, this city would sour realations with the Mongols - possibly producing an early war - bad news at deity.
 
I agree with LK, but I disagree that the light blue dot is definitely lost. We already have the NuMe there who can act as a sort of blockade. I would recommend one of the two following options: send the settler toward light blue dot and if the Koreans do in fact settle there, put the settler on the galley that is hanging around that spot and drop him on the southern island and maybe accompany him with the NuMe. The other option is to send him in between Leptis Magna and Utica (probably on the single hill jutting out into the jungle, next to the bonus grassland, securing the horse. That will be a culturally tense area, however, so you might want to move one more tile away from Mongolia.

Edit: On second thought, after reviewing the save file, the Koreans do have a settler under the warrior who is in sight. They probably will settle near the two cows.
 
Well, now that two of you have voted against red dot, I'll make it a majority and take that option off the table. I included it only because I wanted to present all of the choices, not because I thought it was a good one. I'm ambivalent regarding the other choices, so I'll wait until late afternoon today or tomorrow morning to play my turn, giving us time to reach a consensus.
 
1100 (0) – Traded our WM (which I’ll do on alternating turns from now on) and lowered lux for a total of 9gp+1gpt. Sent our Settler on his journey towards the other Wines. Swapped Hippo from Temple to Worker. The Persians' border is just peeping out of the fog to the north of Frankfurt. They can only be contacted via Galley unless Germany or someone meets them first.

1075 (1) – We are in a nasty position relative to the barbs by Utica and Leptis. I withdraw our NuMe and two Workers into Utica (rather than risking a cross-river attack onto a forest square). The Mongols have Construction now. We now have an embassy with every civ except Persia. Russia was pretty cheap, so I went ahead and established it even if they aren’t going to be much of a force in this game. Our Galley begins its trek towards the Persians.

1050 (2) – Vikes have Construction, too.

1025 (3) – The Mongols took out the barb camp, which caused a new camp to spring up at our next most likely city site. Korea settled the cows.

1000 (4) – Our Mongol pals took out all of the barbs by Utica. Our NuMe will be there to escort our new Settler, though. The Vikes, Mongols, Germans, Russians, and Indians are in a full-blown steel cage match now. The Mongols are using a Deity-RoP to get to the war front(s) to the east.

975 (5) – The Russians very aggressively settled next to Leptis. Their name just hit “the list,” I presume.

950 (6) – Carthage spits out another Settler.

925 (7) – zzz

900 (8) – The Koreans have entered the fray – leaving us as the only peaceful civ.

875 (9) – zzz

850 (10) – With one more turn of MM, the forest clearing at Theveste should allow the Granary to complete before pop growth. The Germans have met the Persians and now have Literature. I acquire the Persian map from Germany and trade it around to the rest of the world for +69gp. The southern island is ready for settlement, as is the Wines square to the east. My successor should meet the Persians during his turn, which means buying contact at this point is not a good idea. Hopefully our meeting Jerxes will come in time to trade contact to some other civs. With the world at war, we are in a great position to cultivate friendships through trade!

Good luck, play well, LK (and have a good trip, too).

the save
 
You link was lk38850BC.SAV
The correct link was LK38850BC.SAV.

Please watch the case in the future.

Also, please you .zip in the future.
I had more problems with corruption when using .sav format.

I "got it", very late tonight or tomorrow night.
 
Sorry for the typo. I forgot to check the link after making the post.

Doesn't our Commercial trait reduce corruption?
 
Reagan: Lee's talking about save file corruption. Our commercial trait won't help with that. ;)

He wants you to zip the save files before you upload them. I'd prefer that too, so I don't have to manually redirect where the file is supposed to go, or have to go looking for it if I put it in the usual place. For me to download and open a zip file is two clicks: all the zips go to an incoming folder. One click to download, one click to unzip, both already pointing to right directories. However, if you upload a save file, that actually takes me longer to deal with. Ironic, but true.

Sometimes those new to SG play don't see the sense of zipping the save files, insist they don't want to do it unless persuaded it is necessary, and it can get to be as much work trying to convince them as it would be to deal with the problems we are trying to avoid with the Zips. :( Except for one thing... If a game does happen to be held up by a corrupted file, it seriously damages the flow of the pacing trying to sort it out. Some SG's have actually not survived this adversity.

Anyway, Lee's asking you to zip the save games before upload.


- Sirian
 
@Sirian - Thanks for the explanation. Guess I have some 'splainin' to do, too. I like to joke around a lot but have a dry sense of humor. I knew what LK was referring to and will try to zip my files in the future. It just seemed funny to me that one of our traits fights corruption, that's all. :lol:

@All - Who's a Simpsons fan on this team? If there are a few of you, I'll try to occasionally drop a few lines into my turn reports. If not, I won't.
 
850 BC - What a weird map - you rarely see continents this absurdly close. Korea was just 2 squares from our landmass?
I raise luxuries to 30% - I can't remember if happiness, or pop reduction from settlers occurs first. I don't want to take a chance.

:confused: I can't figure out what we are up to with settlers - we have a first ring spots unclaimed, but there a settler to claim a 2 square island?

I hate wasting workers turns, but Hippo and Sabratha will critically need WATER when Republic arrives in 27 turns, but we are mining the logical path to get water that direction. Irrigated grassland and mined hills is a powerhouse city, so I want to start our path that way.

I find an Indian worker for sale, and I snag it for $105. The lone Indian city on our continent pays off.

I switch one of them temples to NM - we need more barb fighters.

(I) India / Mongols ally vs. Germany.
Leptis - completes worker, and starts another.


825 BC - At this point the settler is there, so Oea is formed.
On the other hand, building the wine city at its current location results in cultural overlap - I move it a square.
Our nm frags a barb camp near the iron - next up white dot.
(I) A ton of Germans and Mongols kill each other my Leptis.
Korea completes the Great Lighthouse.

800 BC - Hadrumetum is formed - not a great city, but is does claim more wine.

775 BC - (I) Sabratha completes nm, starts another.

730 BC - Cadiz (A.K.A. - white dot) is formed. With us just one tech from barb hordes, I am glad to get that in place. The Mongols have Republic, Construction and Monarchy

690 BC (I) India and Korea peace treaty.

670 BC - First contact with Persia - I can't believe that he only has contact with Germany!
I know we would be extorted for contact in no time so I get everything I can out of it.
I buy construction from India for contact, wm, and $198.
Contact to Mongols for wm, $115.
We trade wm, poly, math and contact with Korea for Republic, $5. :)
I sell Persia construction for wm, $250.
Contact with Russia is only worth $22 - no surprise.
Contact with Vikings is worth $33.
I sell construction to Germany for $152.
I sold the updated maps around for a decent chunk of change.

This may hurt is a barb camp shows up with all of this cash, but I revolt to Republic - we draw 5 turns of anarchy. Bozo is well employed for the moment.

650 BC - Cirta is formed - close to the red dot site.
(I) Russia and India sign a peace treaty.
Barbarians kill a foreign unit near Leptis.
A barb galley nails our galley :(

630 BC - All of a sudden every one has Literature - I buy it from India for $110 to start to reduce our cash.
Our nm kills a barb by Leptis without a scratch :)
3 turns of anarchy left.


Summary - I didn't mention it in my reports, but I did trade maps every turn.

The nasty time of massive barbs will arrive shortly, hopefully longer then 5 turns.


LKendter
Reagan
Sirian (currently playing)
Gothmog (on deck)
Speaker

Remember, 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK38-630BC.zip
 
IT 630BC: MM to halt starvation at Utica, increase food in cities that can, and change to taxmen in cities that can't.

570BC: We enter Republic. Massive Uprising at the camp north of Hippo. I check. Four civs have changed ages. India has not, but has Monarchy.

Currency @5th from Korea for ~330g.
Monarchy @6th from India for Currency @6th and ~320g.
19g from Germany (all the had) and RoP, for Currency @7th.
Monotheism @5th from Germany (scientific) for Republic @7th and Monarchy @7th.
All of Ghandi's cash (what we paid him, plus change), and RoP, for Monotheism @6th.
76g and RoP from Mongols for Monotheism @7th.

We have picked up three techs and three diplo-boosting RoPs for ~200g net. No gpt payments. All civs but Russia now tech-parity in the middle ages.

I then take our cash and rush three important temples: Rusicade, Sabratha, and Hippo. Our current income is 37gpt. Start lone scientist on Engineering.

530BC: Rush walls at Hippo, as 8 barb horses move into view. We have a nume and two other units here, and its on a hill. Here's hoping.

510BC: The barbs headed for the Mongol town. :lol: One lone barb penetrated past L Magna, though. We lost a warrior attacking, but did win with our nume from L Magna.

490BC: Well, some of the barbs are back. Situation is a bit dicey with several horse floating around on our north border.

470BC: Korea has settled the iron south of L Minor, in overlap range. At some point, we are going to want to attack and take over this town and the cattle site, but it will take a little while before we are ready. How long to wait will depend on a lot of things. Korea will probably be perm-furious with us after this, so don't act rashly. Certainly the early industrial age is the longest I can imagine holding off, though.

Also, I took a look at Scandinavia... they are rather closer than the map indicates. If they picked us as a target, sailed their ships across the bay and attacked amphibiously with Berserks, we'd be in a heap of trouble. I decide to pay 3gpt for RoP, to try to improve relations. This brings them up to cautious.

450BC: I attack a barb horse in our territory near Hippo with our vet archer. He loses 0-4. :(

430BC: The Mongols have arrived! They lose one archer attacking the barb horde, but eliminate all but one unit, which then races deep inside our borders. I had sent a spare warrior up from the capital, he attacks and wins, eliminating what looks to be the last of the uprising. The camp is still there, so we could see one or two more harassers, but the big threat is gone.

Our settler has arrived at the yellow dot in the desert, last dot left from my old dotmap. Next player will have to settle. This site sucks now, but could be near oil or saltpeter, and with electricity and rails, will eventually be useful. Might as well get it, and then cash-rush a temple and try to stay ahead culturally of the equally bone dry AI competitiors on the coast. There are no other useful sites. The far north is still open, but sure to be highly infested and too dangerous even if we did send a settler pair.

I also rushed the temple at L Minor (our main wine town). I took a screenshot on my final turn, but forgot to paste it to file and overwrote it when I pasted my report from the text file. Oops. :o I'm not going back for another one, though. Sorry.

Our capital is size 9 and capable of reaching 12 most easily. It's so strong on food, it can even do settlers or workers from there if we need them. I have it as one of the cities where I am building a barracks, currently. It already built a temple.


I emphasized temples on my turn, and barracks. I got units into all our towns, but these are mostly cutouts. We have a few barracks due to complete and our border situation is in good shape. Barb threat is under wraps. I deliberately avoided connecting any iron for now. We don't need them for Numes, which replace pikes. We don't need them for swords, with no military campaign on the horizon. I did connect the horses, I urge training of horsemen and numes for now.

Oea, the much-disparaged LK-disapproved-of island village, is bringing in 2 gpt income and hosting our lone scientist, so that important cities don't have to slow their growth to keep our research going. It is also now impregnable to invasion from all but the Vikings, and being farthest from the capital, is not even adding corruption anywhere. With us being commercial, it is even short of total corruption, incredibly enough.

I'm afraid the AI's have already discovered Feudalism, not six turns after they got to the middle ages. That is quite a tech pace. If you see a chance to get two-for-one on techs, go for it, but otherwise we're good for now. We can build numes, horsemen, courthouses, aqueducts, cathedrals, harbors, markets, libraries... we have plenty of tech to hold us for a long time, in terms of what we can actually USE, so I urge saving cash and using it to rush courthouses, harbors, temples, for the next period of time, taking a longer view with our short term economic resources, and only move up in tech when truly choice opportunities present themselves. With the current tech pace, we won't get engineering before the AI's do unless they beeline up the education branch, but you never know. 33 turns left to go.

I also looked at the FP situation. This being deity, we're not likely to expand beyond our current territory for some time. The only site I liked at all was Leptis Magna. It's a little close, but there is a lot of fertile land up there, should we eventually challenge the Mongols for the dyes, etc. This is also the most fertile part of our outlying lands. The wine region is very rugged, and it's closer on the map to the capital than it looks, because of the parallelogram aspect of the tiles. (The world map is mathematically square). On Deity, early FP tends to be more urgent than ideally located FP, and this site actually has strong future potential if we can ever take some of the jungle away from the Mongols. With no rival site even remotely close in total potential, I went ahead and ordered the FP to be started. There is also a harbor underway so that we can get some trade going here soonish.


If Gothmog takes only nine turns this round, we'll have the turn numbers back to normal and not have to bust our brains tracking how many turns are left in the round. :)

LK38 - 430BC


- Sirian
 
Oea, the much-disparaged LK-disapproved-of island village

It wasn't the city I objected to, so much as the PRIORITY. I would have built the two site by the capital *BEFORE* the island site.

I also looked at the FP situation. This being deity, we're not likely to expand beyond our current territory for some time. The only site I liked at all was Leptis Magna.

I have to agree on no really good choice here. This game we defintely have the potential for move the capital via leader.


I glad the barbs didn't to much harm ;)


LKendter
Reagan
Sirian
Gothmog (currently playing)
Speaker (on deck)

Remember, 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
 
I'm not touchy about others raising issues about the state of the game after my turn, but I would like to offer a few more detailed explanations than were in my turn report.

City placement choices - I posted a message requesting input regarding city placement. The only responses were to veto the worst of the choices, which I had included only for completeness. I decided to snag the Wines first because they were the most at risk for being lost and a luxury can be sold for big bucks as soon as everyone is out of despotism. :groucho: We had another Settler due from Carthage in 4-5 turns who was slotted for the first-ish ring city site to the west. Unfortunately, the shifting barb camp changed that plan. Rather than waste several turns waiting to :slay: the camp (or, worse, lose the Settler to a barb), I sent him to the island and figured the next Settler would catch the close site. Because of their proximity, I figured the Koreans would send a boat to the island if we waited too long. As it turns out, we got all of the city sites we wanted. :band: By the way, the Settler was on the Wines because I had to [dance] around the warring Mongols/Russians/Germans and there was a Russian Archer parked on the best city site. I moved out of their path hoping we would be able to take their spot the next turn.

Mining the grasslands - While it is correct that mining non-bonus grasslands is not always the best course of action, here is my thought process. It doesn't take any longer to irrigate a mined square than to irrigate an unimproved one. We have super-speed Workers who can irrigate in, what, two turns? We had ~30 turns+anarchy left before Republic was due. I had no reasonable expectation that we would be trading for Republic any sooner than that. Shields were at a premium in that area, so it made sense to squeeze out some production before shifting to food.

Luxury rate - There is no need to raise the luxury rate when a pop point and Settler are due on the same turn.

Again, I'm not upset about these things but I do want y'all to know I'm not some newbie who fails to have a reasoned purpose behind all of the moves he makes. :D
 
Re Sirian: I felt the mongols would go for the orange dot and possibly pressure the pink dot site as well due to all the good land down there (possibly going for a costal site inbetween). I didn't have a good WM at that time and didn't know they would end up expanding to the east. I am not sure how settling the orange dot changed the mongol expansion pattern and I don't know if the three turns was make or break. To find out I would have to do a replay. Five turns per settler is great, growing every two turns four is max (obviously). I felt there was some urgency to settling our northern and eastern borders and was willing to sacrifice to do that. It was a trade off and I made it consciously. Sorry if you dissagree, but this is a SG :)

I write my report while playing, I don't have internet access at home right now (my old provider sucked and I haven't signed up a new one yet). So I connect at work and at the library. I really didn't know if I was due 10 or 20 turns, so I took 15. If you take a look at K7 (or even RBE3) you will see I like to set up things for others (ala falsefire) as a priority. Flow is needed (and thus discussion).

I don't have PTW where I access the internet and so haven't seen a map. I think we lost the light blue dot, and settled another one near the eastern wines? Now Russia has come for her share of the wines, yes? I guess I'll find out tonight. Consider this my 'I got it' and I'll be playing tonight. I will go 9 turns to get us back on even numbers.
 
Oh yes, good work on the trading Sirian and LK - esp. the work with the scientific germans.

Also, I agree with LK and would have settled the 'fill in' spots before the island. We lost the iron spot south of the pink dot to the Koreans? I think due to barbarians, ah well those are the breaks.

As I stated before, my main worry early in Diety games is grabbing enough territory. I don't mind falling behind in tech or culture. Those AI's love to settle in what I consider my homeland.
 
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