LK74 - Sid, Civ = TDB

[LKendter]

I started the FP. Do we want to continue it? I say yes; getting it early is more important than which town for this set up.

Didn't I already have it started in Bombay?

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One option is a possible alliance with our close neighbors in a war vs the Byzantines. It will put the Hittites as a buffer vs any land based attacks and allow us to expel those red towns from our niche of land.

We will need lots of swords to do this effectively and be able to ride out the storm of units for 20 turns. Maybe just maybe we can pointy stick some techs out of the deal.

Byzantine ships can reach us very easily. I watched multiple Dromons pass by our shore. By the time we can enough sword to take the cities and be able to deal we a landing the AI will have muskets, if not rifles.

We do need to expand, but I just don't see how we could pull it off.

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Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Danz (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Akots

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[Greebley]

No FP was building during my turns. We were only building temples. Maybe the plan was to start it after the temple? I don't think I changed a town away from the FP.

I agree completely with building swords and then attacking another civ (hittites) with the help of another. That strategy has been used in both the two winning SID games I have been played to help get the win.

[Edit: I think we want to go after the Hittites. They are using their troops in the current war with Byzantine. Once the iron connects and we get sufficient swords then I think we need to attack if we possibily can. The Byzantines only get us the few towns on our borders. We will want/need more than that.

 

[LKendter]

I agree completely with building swords and then attacking another civ (hittites) with the help of another. That strategy has been used in both the two winning SID games I have been played to help get the win.

If we go that route I want settlers on standby to replace the cities. The flip risk have to be unreal at sid, so I want to go pure raze and replace.

I still wonder if the Byzantines might be a good target for a quick war. We would raze the horse city, and the jungle city. That should get us at least a good tech discount. I won't agrue with additional resources for potential future trade.

One challenge is to get some embassies! We need to have a good idea how all the civs are fighting. If there is a dogpile vs. the Byzantines or Hittites that is the time to strike.

 

[Greebley]

Agree on the embassies. Otherwise our cash is just demanded away anyway. I should have thought of that myself.

My worry with a war with the Byzantines is that it delays the Hittite war, and angers the civ that is likely to help us vs the Hittites. I think that we can get rid of the Byzantine cities at any time, but for the Hittites we want to hit them before they have Muskets.

 

[danz]

Ok, I'll build some embassies with any spare cash. You're right, if it's going to be taken away, we might as well spend it.

The embassies will tell us how many wars are going on between the AI civs and what their attitudes toward each other are likely to be (I'll test this out by asking how much an Embargo or MA would cost). Thus, we can determine if we can pull a quick one versus the Byzantines and still have them help us versus the Hittites, whom they will probably dislike more than us, if they have been fighting longer and with more brutal consequences. If we can pull this off, it will consolidate out lands and give us some time to reorganize our forces in preparation for attack (or defense!) on the Eastern front.

The danger in *not* attacking the Byzantines first is that when (not if) we eventually attack or are attacked by the Hittites, the Byzantines might open up a second front in our rear. A two-front war would crush us like an aluminum can.

 

[danz]

Just started, we only have enough cash for 1 embassy, and we're getting iron online next turn, so we can use it to upgrade warrs to swords. Tough choice. We're poor.

I also noticed that our FP build is in Bombay, which is a ring 1 city with very little corruption, plus it's on the NE edge of the continent. All of our current and future cities are closer to our capital. I'm confused. What's the point of an FP there? I know Bombay will get a little better, but that's an awfully expensive courthouse...

Do I not understand something about C3Cv1.22 FP math? Wht's the point of an FP in walking distance to the palace?

 

[LKendter]

Do I not understand something about C3Cv1.22 FP math? Wht's the point of an FP in walking distance to the palace?

Remember the FP no longer provides a second core. What is does mainly is a OCN boast the is effectively a courthouse in every city. It helps some with the distance calculation. However, we have no other city with the shields to build it in a reasonable time frame.

 

[danz]

Hmm. But I thought there was still a proximity component for surroundig cities. I was thinking the FP would be much more useful later, when we spread out a bit to the East and we need some productive cities closer to the front.

Oh well, I guess it makes sense to complete it now. On Sid, there might not *BE* a later otherwise

 

[akots]

IMHO, impact of FP would be rather small atm since we have few cities and the level is Sid and we are commercial and it would be certainly better to have it in a city which lies in the direction of possible expansion but still in first or second ring. We would certainly get a leader or two (if not, it would be a very bad layout) and may rush this FP later on. However, if there is really nothing to build, it might be OK. But 200 shields worth of units is a lot on the other side (10 cats, 7 swords, etc).

 

[danz]

1.550

Hittite embassy finds a pop 6 city.
Oracle (already making loads of money on tourism), only rax/gran/temple.
6 pikes, 2 MDI, 2 cats.
3 luxuries: 2 wine, 1 dye, 2 incense.
At war with Byzantines, Persia, and Maya.
This looks good he is underdeveloped and at war with everyone but us!

Delay Delhi's spear production by switching to settler and ensuring swords in 2 turns.

IT: Byzantine archer kills hittite archer in SW, promotes and advances into fog.

2.530

Delhi will produce sword in 1, every 3 turns at 10 SPT after that by working roaded forest.

3.510 ...

IT: Hittites and Maya sign peace.

4.490

Jaipur worker->rax, Calcutta switched to granary. It will have minimal corruption and can grow past 6 into a nice city but has slow growth, needs some help.

IT: Hittite spear heading toward choke.

5.470

Block off choke, swords are arriving just in time. Moving warrs to MP and spear/swords to battle stations.

6.450

Madras works iron hill for sword in 2 instead of 4, might be trouble ahead.

IT: Hittites ask our currgh to leave. I say "OK" but know full well the boat has nowhere to go. One more tile off shore and they sink!
Hittite MDI, archer, spear approach choke.

7.430

Embassy in Persepolis, Persia, reports:
Size 12 city, 4 muskets, 1 knight.
Wines, ivory, dyes, furs.
Great Library.
Rax, lib, university, colloseum.

IT: Hittites change their mind. Those swords don't look so tasty, do they Marsellis! Let's see how you like it when we have 10 or 20...
The Hittites don't look so tough as they did around 1000 BC. We can consider a campaign against them pretty soon.

8.410 ...

9.390

Newly produced sword heads NW for some insurance in that sector. We have a lot of tasty workers and cities defended by 1 warrior in that area.

Embassy in Constantinople, Byzantium reports a size 12 city.
Every building imaginable except harbor.
12 muskets!
6 luxuries!
80% science rate, 1621 gold reserves.
Hanging Gardens, Sistine Chapel, Temple of Artemis, Colossus. Leonardo's Workshop in 5 turns. The tourism business in Constantinople alone is biger than our entire economic output, and it olds most of the world's wonders
We do NOT want any trouble with the pretty lady.

For insurance, I buy an ROP for WM, 2 GPT (more insurance) and 26 G.
The lady turns Polite, and I issue a sigh of relief...

More insurance, ROP with Persia for WM, 1 GPT, 7 G.

Now it's going to be very tough for the Hittites to pull anything out of their hat. I would suggest a similar arrangement with the others and then a short war that will hopefully net us some tech, which we need badly. The others are half way through the Middle Ages, and we... well, let's just say we need some help.

IT: Byzantium building Bach's Cathedral.

10.370 ...

Looks good, we are staging at the choke. Still a little thin, but should be good to go in the next 10 turns. My bigest fear is that we're weakening the weakest AI when we attack the Hittites. The Byzantines are running away with this game scientifically and cluturally. They will have rifles for sure, maybe infantry by the time we can touch them. But I don't think we have much choice. If we atacked Byzantium right now, we would get slaughtered. And we can't afford to buy anyone to help us.

p.s. No screen shot, nothing much to show, same territory just a little better developed and defended.

 

[LKendter]

Size 12 city, 4 muskets, 1 knight.

Unreal - we haven't leave the ancient ages and the AI is moving along nicely in the middle ages.

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Hanging Gardens, Sistine Chapel, Temple of Artemis, Colossus. Leonardo's Workshop in 5 turns.

We do NOT want any trouble with the pretty lady.

This is bad news. That city is a real risk of hitting 20K.
As for trouble I think we HAVE to have trouble with with her or this game is lost. The only question is WHEN.

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We would certainly get a leader or two (if not, it would be a very bad layout)

I have learned my lesson in this game. You never want to count on a leader.

================================

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Danz
Hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Akots (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[danz]

What if we just take Constantinople and raze it to th ground? As soon as we get elephants, this may actually be an option

 

[hotrod0823]

I've got it.

 

[hotrod0823]

Half way through.

War will be coming soon. Turned on research to get WC and have to make an attempt to get out of the dark ages.

Hittites just took our last gold, again. A few turns later and I think I my have told them to bug off. Anyway, will have it back tomorrow I hope. Holiday weekends are tough to get games played.

Hotrod

 

[danz]

Might as well upgrade the regular warriors to swords. No sense giving our soon-to-be enemies money to fight us with.

 

[hotrod0823]

370 BC (0): I think we are off by 1 turn. Anyway, we are no better in tech than I left the game 50 turns ago. I turn on research and WC is due in 5 turns. We have all but 1 embassy.

350 BC (1): Madras Expands and the Maya completed Leo's. Not much else.

330 BC (2): Delhi builds a sword starts another.

310 BC (3): Lahore builds a granary starts a settler for future Hittite city replacement. Persia builds Bach's and starts on Magellens. Move slider to get WC next turn at a small -9gpt. Rather than have it "asked for" spend it.

290 BC (4): WC comes in start on CoL. We can use the courthouses. Kolhapur builds a worker starts on a granary. Byzantines start on Cops can complete it in Constantinople. Whip the temple in Hyderbad. Best I can do is CoL in 16 turns. Is it worth it? Rather than giving away gold I think so. Rethink CoL and go with Masonry, we need cats.

270 BC (5): Give up 18 gold to the Hittites but it is interesting to note they have neither horse nor iron. Delhib builds a sword starts another. Banglore a baracks starts a spear. Calcutta builds a granary starts a settler. Hyderabad a temple starts a worker.

250 BC (6): Smiths is started all around. Masonry is due in 5 turns. We can't hold on to our gold long enough to save up to buy so may as well research it.

230 BC (7): Madras builds a sword starts another. Not much else

210 BC (8): Delhi builds a sword starts another. Continue to amass swords at the choke and watch as the Hittite long bows move away.

190 BC (9): Moving to the front lines. A couple new settlers and maybe a few spears and we should be ready to take a shot that the iron/horseless Hittites.

[dance] Inca and persia sign against the Hittites.

170 BC (10): Masonry comes in and start on Math for the cats, due in 11 at 40%. FP next turn.

150 BC (11): To even things up I played this turn. Delhi builds a sword, starts another. Our FP is created in Bombay. Starts a baracks but can be changed. War is about ready to be started I think. It will be tough but we are going up against longbows and what remains of there pikes.

 

[LKendter]

Move slider to get WC next turn at a small -9gpt. Rather than have it "asked for" spend it.

Negative spending has a high risk for us and should be avoided. If we are demanded to $0, then we will suffer a lose of a temple and worker. It isn't worth the risk.

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To even things up I played this turn.

Thank you.

@Danz - Please check F8 for the correct turn. You moves completed on turn 109. The game should normally be passed off on a turn ending in zero.

Lee

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Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Greebley
Danz
Hotrod0823
Akots (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[akots]

Got it. Looks like preparing for war is a priority atm. IMO, it is too early to start, we don't have enough firepower.

 

[akots]

I've looked at the save and we need more cities. Especially tempting looks fish tile near Dehli as well as a few other locaions just for shear units support. We are running out of units support but don't have enough swords to attack Hittites. We can certainly try but without cats it would be pure slaughter.

 

[LKendter]

We can certainly try but without cats it would be pure slaughter.

I agree 100% with you here.

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I've looked at the save and we need more cities. Especially tempting looks fish tile near Dehli as well as a few other locaions just for shear units support.

I would have to see a dot-map from you to comment here. Any more cities must have zero cultural overlaps with the AI to manage the flip risk. One thing I know is I don't want to create is a ICS type of build. We have very little food to build more with so we have to be careful with more cities.