Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter LXXLXX : Zara Yaqob

[Berkobob]

First Civ game in 15 months so I was very rusty.

Played on Immortal / Huts on / Normal.

Won a domination victory 1898 AD. (see attached)

No long writeup because I played quite awfully.

Things I did good:

Spoiler :

Fogbusting - didnt waste too many resources on fogbusting due to the position of our capital and going for an early wonder instead of a rex (natural choke points)

built cities on the islands early to leverage GLH trade routes;

used the UU (drafted mostly) in my first war against Sitting Bull;

Things I did bad:

Spoiler :

No bureaucracy, revolted to vassalage about 10 turns before getting nationalism;

GP - no dedicated GP farm for most of the early game;

Bulbs - bulbed Compass and Optics, then ran out of steam to research astro, also only bulbed Philo very late.

No national wonders until well past 1300 AD;

Only built NE and HE;

Built two cities in the wrong spot missing out on extra food sources for them to grow;

Didnt get IW until after Astro so missed a few good production sites until late renaissance;

Almost zero micro past the first 50 turns.

 

[WelshGandalf]

@Danelius90

Spoiler :

I think we're at similar levels & both played the game at the same difficulty level, & both went for the same VC so hopefully my comments can be of help

At 1200 AD you were just behind me. We got lib about the same date but I libbed consititution.

I saw on one screen shot that you were building custom houses. They really don't give much of a return. I might build them in my science cities but that's it (building it in my cpaital gave 8-12 commerce after buero bonus, then +250% science on top of that so it was worth it). I think you were building them whilst you still had empty land too. You really shouldn't be letting the opposition settle on your isolated continent when they need astro to get there. I put my moai on that peninsula; it was a pretty useful city.

Fast forward now to the modern age. You're in 1912AD with 10 cities, and around 850bpt (I'm extrapolating that from future screenshots). I'm playing it and I'm up to 1870AD or so, with about 17 cities and twice your science rate - just finishing the Apollo program. How am I so much further ahead than you when I wasn't earlier on? I'm not entirely sure but I'll try a few guesses (more experienced people please offer opinions on this too)
- city count. I've already mentioned letting them settle on your mainland. It also doesn't look like you've settled the small island at the bottom? It's not brilliant but it can sustain a city just fine (trait things like free lighthouses help). It also helps with overseas trade routes (had you settled it before astro ofc). 5 of my cities are ones I took from the native americans & barbarians near the native americans in an infantry vs. macemen fight So not sure it's fair to count them in this comparison.
- science rate. Partially this is down to city count, but partially other things too. It's hard to say what exactly. I was in representation and that did help - between my capital, the fp city and the city to the left, I was running at least 15 specialists. My buero capital is doing around 800 bpt, and I'm making money at 90% science. What with all the peace going on in this map, and runing free market, trades routes were pretty lucrative, even in my small cities (which all had at least a cheap library in them).
- Corporation - I made a bit of a beeline to sid's sushi (pre 1600 AD?) and established that, spreading it around means an extra couple of specialists, improved growing speed etc. It's helped a lot. I founded it in my confu holy city & built wall street there too. I don't know if you used any corps as you don't mention them.
- Civics - I don't know if these made a difference or not but I'll lis them anyway so we can compare. Representation, buerocracy, caste system (just about coping with the 7 for not being in emancipation), Free Market, Free Religion (all cities have at least 2 religions - I've usually built temples too, those & cheap colluseums & theatres are helping fight the emancipation. +10% science always helps ofc).

I'll try & get some screenies & such up later - I'm at work at the moment. I think my 1870ish one (ie where I am now) will be good to compare with yours to see where I pulled out this lead from. Do you have any saved games from 1600-1850AD?

 

[Danelius90]

@Danelius90

Spoiler :

I think we're at similar levels & both played the game at the same difficulty level, & both went for the same VC so hopefully my comments can be of help

At 1200 AD you were just behind me. We got lib about the same date but I libbed consititution.

I saw on one screen shot that you were building custom houses. They really don't give much of a return. I might build them in my science cities but that's it (building it in my cpaital gave 8-12 commerce after buero bonus, then +250% science on top of that so it was worth it). I think you were building them whilst you still had empty land too. You really shouldn't be letting the opposition settle on your isolated continent when they need astro to get there. I put my moai on that peninsula; it was a pretty useful city.

Fast forward now to the modern age. You're in 1912AD with 10 cities, and around 850bpt (I'm extrapolating that from future screenshots). I'm playing it and I'm up to 1870AD or so, with about 17 cities and twice your science rate - just finishing the Apollo program. How am I so much further ahead than you when I wasn't earlier on? I'm not entirely sure but I'll try a few guesses (more experienced people please offer opinions on this too)
- city count. I've already mentioned letting them settle on your mainland. It also doesn't look like you've settled the small island at the bottom? It's not brilliant but it can sustain a city just fine (trait things like free lighthouses help). It also helps with overseas trade routes (had you settled it before astro ofc). 5 of my cities are ones I took from the native americans & barbarians near the native americans in an infantry vs. macemen fight So not sure it's fair to count them in this comparison.
- science rate. Partially this is down to city count, but partially other things too. It's hard to say what exactly. I was in representation and that did help - between my capital, the fp city and the city to the left, I was running at least 15 specialists. My buero capital is doing around 800 bpt, and I'm making money at 90% science. What with all the peace going on in this map, and runing free market, trades routes were pretty lucrative, even in my small cities (which all had at least a cheap library in them).
- Corporation - I made a bit of a beeline to sid's sushi (pre 1600 AD?) and established that, spreading it around means an extra couple of specialists, improved growing speed etc. It's helped a lot. I founded it in my confu holy city & built wall street there too. I don't know if you used any corps as you don't mention them.
- Civics - I don't know if these made a difference or not but I'll lis them anyway so we can compare. Representation, buerocracy, caste system (just about coping with the 7 for not being in emancipation), Free Market, Free Religion (all cities have at least 2 religions - I've usually built temples too, those & cheap colluseums & theatres are helping fight the emancipation. +10% science always helps ofc).

I'll try & get some screenies & such up later - I'm at work at the moment. I think my 1870ish one (ie where I am now) will be good to compare with yours to see where I pulled out this lead from. Do you have any saved games from 1600-1850AD?

@WelshGandalf

Spoiler :

I really don't know why I didn't fill in all the land I had - regretted it later though!
Only built 3 custom houses in the cities with highest trade routes and science multiplier buildings, I think, but as you said I really should have been settling the cities. In any case, I probably could have only got 2 more on the island.
I felt as though I didn't have enough cottage cities actually. Only had the cap and one FP city - my second city was going to be cottaged, then it became a useful production city and eventually I saw the need for more commerce so I tried to respecialize it a bit. There was definitely some lack of direction there. Oddly though, I was quite surprised with how fast I was teching at one point (probably after I got Oxford up) and I let it stagnate a little from there.
I would have prioritised the island cities sooner had I realised they count for overseas trade (I think thats been one of the best new facts for me in this game ) and so should really have utilised this more, what with having the GLH and all. How do we sometimes not notice these things after playing so long?? lol

I remember commenting on how backward sitting bull was, and in the end he was at the top of the scoreboard building a few space ship parts. I probably should have declared war but the bottom line was I couldn't be bothered with a big invasion and war (my power rating was about half of all the others lol)

About the tech rate, (along with factors above) I think I may have revolted out of bureau for free speech (and possibly rep for emancipation), which considering the lack of cottage cities was probably a bad idea (bureau for most of the rest of the game was probably a better idea) - so that ones a mystery to me too

I founded mining inc, popped an engineer when I was expecting something else so did that and spread to some of the island cities. But couldn't be bothered to spread anymore, so wasn't worth mentioning. Had wall street in the holy city too with the hq, could have been useful.

This is the only save I have around that time, 1630AD

I actually have a save from 1 turn before liberalism - I could play from there if I have time and correct some of these errors! But thanks, your comments are helpful and have helped me to re-look and re-evaluate this game

 

[WelshGandalf]

Continued spoiler...

Spoiler :

From the first spoiler - I tried to Oracle CS and succeeded. Unfortunately I only had 4 cities at 1AD at least partially because of this, albiet I was teching well thanks to early bureaucracy.

I expanded & teched well. Settled 10 cities on the mainland, 1 on the islands in the bay, and 1 on the island to the south-east. When I met the others I found I was at or near the top of the tech race.

Took constitution with liberalism 1200 AD. Built Taj 1350AD and revolted into representation, caste & some other fun stuff. Beelined Sid's Sushi - got Biology 1535AD (didn't note my medicine date).

Going for space victory - however the Native Americans were soooo backwards, (& hated by most because of religion) I just had to invade them, so I started 1720AD. Infantry vs macemen/crossbowmen is a bit of a slaughter. I took 7 infantry and 5 cannons there, later a couple more infantry too. Such a small army meant I could continue with my main focus of space. They managed to kill 1 infantry. I took 3 cities and they capitulated. I then took 2 barb cities on the islands north to them, mainly to secure some silver, the +2 helped my continuing fight against emancipation. A few more seafood helped Sid's Sushi, too.

Here's some 1740AD screenshots.

My Bureaucracy/Oxford capital.

My flood plains city. Main focus was research (it had an academy) but after I got levee it also doubled as a good production city. It could flip between using workshops or running scientists, depending on what I was most interested in at the time.




Fast forward to 1848AD, I'm doing 1974bpt whilst earning money. The Apollo program is almost done. Here's my capital now - I want to get it to 1000bpt but I'm not sure I'll quite make it. Still, the raw is pretty impressive.


Eventually I did get it over 1000bpt! Briefly during a golden age, and then really near the end of the game when I had single currency & airport trade routes, as you can see here. It had 200bpt knocked off it next turn when Universal suffrage was voted in as a universal civic (3 turns until spaceship would arrive - so no impact really).


Result = space victory in 1922 AD, a few hundred beakers away from Future Tech 3. England were 22 turns from a cultural victory. The most parts of a spaceship anyone else had was 1

Now, for some commentary on my own game.
- Was getting CS from the Oracle worth it? I feel it would've been a lot better had I managed to get some cottages going; but I skipped pottery early on to increase my chances of getting CS.
- My first 2 scientists both created acadamies. I think I should've perhaps bulbed with one of them.
- I got Philosophy at 1AD. I wanted religion for happiness. Would I have been better going for Education early? The downside of that was that if I had, I barely would've had 6 cities capable of building universities within any reasonable timeframe.

 

[MarigoldRan]

I'd like to see an isolation start with no tech trading. It would be a good way to compare methods of economic development.

 

[i_imperator]

I'd like to see an isolation start with no tech trading. It would be a good way to compare methods of economic development.

Funney you mention that as my settings are, Emperor, Normal, No Huts, No Events, No tech trades. I'll post my game when i've finished it.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

To 400 BC:

Spoiler :

This is my first time playing in the LHC, so I’m a bit nervous. I’ve won precious few times on immortal as is, but never with an isolated start. Should be a fun challenge, though, and the good start gives me some optimism.

First: settling in place is, indeed, a no-brainer. Moving NE loses two hills and I won’t stand for it. But just in case I move the scout NEE to see what’s up.

I’ll begin with agriculture for our land-based food, then likely proceed to fishing. I can already see that there is a small island to expand to, and that the land here is somewhat narrow, possibly with plains and tundra. So I am already thinking of the Great Lighthouse.

Some interesting land to the northeast. There is no hurry to settle it, as we have no competitors, but the option is open for a strong cottage city or several. At the same time, it is clear that there is much barren land as well, so I think that ensuring the Great Lighthouse is now a priority.

I briefly considered early pottery, but decided against it because Aksum already has strong commerce tiles to work–the gold and the seafood–and since I only have one visible happiness resource I would only be running around two cottages for the time being. Probably not the most efficient move for now.

More decent land up north. It may be worth it to spam coastal cities in the near future. But first: what is my next tech choice? Bronze working is too compelling to pass up; I will need protection against barbarians, and my desire to expand while building defense and wonders means that I will need production ASAP. Bronze gives me chops, a third hill, and visibility of copper. Finally, I can afford it: I have a gold tile!

No bronze, which is the only bad news so far. I would like to detour into animal husbandry, but time is precious and I cannot lose the Great Lighthouse. Sailing is next. My next city may need to be west to keep barbarian trouble to a minimum in the short term.

Without the wheel, Aksum is forced to stagnate at size 5. I will be chopping out a settler first, then moving on to a lighthouse. It looks like the area to the west is already fully fogbusted, so I believe I can settle there unescorted. It will be a weak city, though there is likely to be seafood, and it will be able to work the sheep and tundra marble. (I need masonry anyway) With the Great Lighthouse, it will pay for itself easily. I will settle east as soon as I have adequate barbarian defense.

Masonry is in. Next up is The Wheel for the happiness boost of the gold tile.

I’ll try to micromanage this so that Aksum grows the same turn the gold tile is hooked up.

Gondar is founded. Not a bad city after all. With 11 food surplus (12 with civil service) it will very likely be my primary GP farm. (though I may settle an island city with three fish!)

My kingdom for a horse. Aksum will grow into unhealth and unhappiness in three turns, then the road will instantly complete solving both problems.

I can settle the pigs and horse with my next city, but it will be dangerous. I’ll plan to research archery and whip the Great Lighthouse into an archer, then produce a settler as fast as possible, possibly through whipping. Other priorities: Gondar needs more worker turns (though a worker is on the way) and our new cities will need improvements as well. Aksum needs another workboat.

I’ll grow on the archer and workboat before producing our third settler. Aksum will begin flooding the landscape with archers and cities.

We’re too late to go for the oracle, though it’s tempting, so the next logical moves are pottery and writing, for granaries and libraries. Soon we will probably cottage, but for now we are organized with good trade route income, and can afford a lot of cities.

Some bad barbarian management means I need to 2-pop whip an archer (ouch) and my third city is slowed down.

Next stop is currency, by way of mathematics. I’ll be chopping heavily, and I don’t think I’ll urgently need to build research. Gondar should probably chop and whip its granary, library, and lighthouse as soon as possible.

Don’t you hate it when there are two barbs on a tile and you don’t notice?

Galley trouble.

Fourth city.

Still galley trouble.

Galley trouble gone, at the expense of a teensy bit of whip anger. A decent time to settle an island city for the overseas commerce.

Also, Marie Curie is born in Gondar. She’ll make an academy in Aksum, which is almost ready for some serious cottage spam.

Whaaaat. I’m playing with events on? It’s free beakers, but I hate this immersion-killing garbage. I'll figure out how to turn them off next time, I suppose.

The state of things on turn 99. I have islands to settle, including a delicious clam and 3 fish city that positively screams “NATIONAL EPIC”. I have barbarians to kill, I have plenty more land to develop, and I have a capital to cottage.

I have only one calendar resource, and no religion. I really, really want monarchy. So much so that it might actually be worth teching all the way through mysticism, meditation, and priesthood. I might even go the longer route through monotheism, but that’s only worth it if I’m confident that I can beat the AIs to taoism. Which I’m not, as my next scientist is 32 turns away.

Anyway, until next time.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

To 1430 AD:

Spoiler :

OK, priorities. Gondar is going to generate a great scientist in 32 turns. Annoyingly, he will only be able to bulb alphabet. Education, however, has a higher bulb priority, so he’ll help us on the liberalism path. After that we’ll shift GP production over to our island city, and it will probably be worth the beaker investment to get the national epic whipped there at the earliest possible moment. Unfortunately, we cannot run pacifism without a religion!

Anyway, both an effective bureaucracy capital and an awesome GP farm will require more happiness, so off to monarchy we go. On the plus side, we have three wine tiles in our land, and one more once we capture the barbarian city Vandal.

More event ridiculousness.

Plans for the future. I’m also sending a galley to explore the SE island, progressing nicely in my cottaging, and I just hit monarchy. Still being tormented by galleys to some extent.

So what now?

I’ll start by going directly to Civil Service. Yeha is going to take a while to even get its basic buildings whipped, so I might as well invest in my “traditional” beaker rate. I can pick up literature later if I like, and otherwise I can proceed to paper and bulb education to get Oxford.

I dare anyone to explain to me how this could possibly make the game more interesting.

A whale and fish city. I don’t have copper, so I’ve resorted to making chariots to take Vandal.

Cue Benny Hill music.

URRRRRRRRRRRRG.

Werner Heisenburg is born in Gondar. He’ll wait to bulb education, most likely.

Kill the barbs!

Revolting into bureaucracy. Yeha has just finished its library and is calming down from the whip anger. I’ll hop over to grab literature, as great people are just so… great. Next stop: liberalism!

Stupidity. I lose a second farm, and they were both important for my irrigation.

Operation Extreme Cottage is complete.

Spent a bulb on education. Still more galley trouble. Which will delay the national epic a lot.

I get education, and 13 cities, with one more on the way. My large empire means that I can start whipping in my universities with ease.

I could go for liberalism immediately and take nationalism, but I don’t like that for two reasons. 1) It doesn’t take advantage of my detour into literature, since I won’t have time to generate any more great people before then, and 2) nationalism doesn’t serve any of my immediate goals, which are research and outside contact. It is probably worth it to backfill basic techs, namely alphabet, metal casting, iron working, and calendar, in preparation to bulb liberalism and tech through optics to lib astronomy. The risk is losing liberalism, but that would not be too tragic, as I could bulb astronomy as well.

Moose herds? MOOSE HERDS?!?

Take that, you stupid mooses.

I get the national epic. And a new friend.

A wise man told me to postpone trading until we know who hates this guy.

This one is just strange. But strangely welcome. My empire is pretty freaking unhappy, and this will add +2 happiness with forges!

Some final whips before I say goodbye to slavery:

A new friend:

And another after that.

Finally, the bulb I’ve been waiting for:

Good job Rutherford. Nobody I’ve met has education yet, so I should win lib, and astronomy, with ease. I even get a whale in the process. Whoo.

By the way, I sure hope that the WHEOORNs are ongoing wars…

Justinian has built the Apostolic Palace in Buddhism, which has spread to me. The religious situation is messy, to put it lightly. Good. Soon I can run free religion.

Astronomy. Compelling the soul to look upwards and all that jazz. Making a pair of galleons to explore and get the movement bonus. International foreign trade should give my economy a pretty solid boost.

I’ll research printing press for now. It’ll give me a concrete bonus, and I can wait a bit to see what the global situation is.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

Spoiler :

Justinian declared on Pericles. So what’s Gilgamesh up to?

Done with printing press, and I know all but one AI now. I think it’s time to make some tiny choices.

I want that foreign trade. I can currently see the borders of the Greeks and the English. The English are the only civ not at war or plotting war. In fact, they only have contact with Justinian, and they are not worst enemies. So, for the time being, I will consider Elizabeth a good prospective ally.

She also has the largest number of cities, and the Victories and Wonders screens suggest that she may be going for a cultural victory. So she might not be my ally for long.

In any case, I open borders and trade her some incense and wine for some rice and fur. I’m in much healthier shape now! I also pick up construction and monotheism for civil service—she’s the only one who doesn’t have it. (this gets her to pleased, but she still won’t trade me her world map…)

How about my next tech choice? Here’s the tech picture:

I don’t really want to do any more trades at the moment, as everyone but Elizabeth is someone’s worst enemy. For the moment I’ll start teching through feudalism, guilds, and banking, and try to generate a great merchant to help that along. It would be nice to deny Elizabeth the great merchant if that’s possible, but I’ve also been workshopping and the extra help would be good. And this is of course all part of the replaceable parts line.

Uhh, OK, I guess.

I’m voting yes. The weaker civs shouldn’t be beating each other up. It succeeds.

I get a great scientist, John Dalton. Seems like a great time for a golden age, to go into free religion, slip into slavery for five turns to finish up some important buildings, and then go back into caste to starve another great person out of Yeha.

I get beaten to the water movement bonus. Justinian will pay.

Some trading with Pericles, who is not hated:

Also, Wang Kon declares war on Justinian. I head for chemistry and replaceable parts.

Gilgamesh isn’t hated anymore, so:

I also trade him for silk and cow, and beg him for 10 gold in case he’s plotting against me. I can’t get any world maps, it seems.

And finally, I meet the last character!

And he’s backwards and not hated!

OK, plenty of analysis to do here. Gilgamesh is plotting, but it’s hard to know who against. In any case, I’m probably safe, and I have a lot of time. There is absolutely no way Justinian can win an AP victory, but I’m still watching for it.

I need to choose a target soon, and a method of execution. But that will come next session.

 

[Um the Muse]

@LeftAdjoint:

Spoiler :

Gee, you sure beeline hard. I'm pretty sure that you can wait a little bit before going for the GLH. I admit that I only played this at Emporer and my comfort level is Monarch, but I'm pretty sure that you have time to get a warrior or two out first. I personally went for max pop in my cap+first settler before I went for the GLH. Even though I also removed the gold from my map (Steveoh or somebody had added that in with worldbuilder), I still ended up with more cities, just because I was willing to put off the wonder for a little bit. The key, I think, is that I didn't have to worry so much about barbs--none of their cities were founded in my land, and I was able to keep barb galleys to a minimum (a single galley, iirc).

I found it interesting that you decided to build cottages on your gHills. In my second game, I found that the city just produced too much food to not use it as my settler/worker pump until I could get other cities to use the tiles as well. If you found that to be true in your game, too, then I think that you'd have been better off leaving them as mines until windmills become viable with replaceable parts. Maybe you're choice was right though; you certainly have plenty of food.

On the tech trade thing you mention when you meet Justinian, I think that the AI can only demand you cancel permanent deals. I think you would have been better off if you had bought Justinian's map.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

@Um

Spoiler :

It was probably a mistake to not at least get a warrior out, as I would have been screwed without the little nook to the west, but some of my decisions were influenced by how stupidly fast the capital was growing. If you notice from the pictures, I was at the happy cap with a settler out when the GLH started—though it could have grown one more with a faster Wheel—with a warrior produced for garrison.

It comes down to how quickly I hooked up the seafood—I went worker/work boat at the start, instead of worker/warrior/work boat. From there, most of the build was auto-pilot on the assumption that you should always work the best tiles.

When I made this decision, I had already thoroughly scouted the east and knew that no city site was wildly, immediately compelling, particularly as I was not yet sure how I would defend any settlements over there. So delaying the growth of the capital to fogbust an area that I knew I wasn't likely to settle into immediately just seemed to go against everything that I believe in as a Civ player.

Of course, it turned out, the way the turns worked, that I actually had time to make a settler before starting on the GLH, which I think I hadn't anticipated. So I think it makes sense to delay the workboat a bit here to get that warrior earlier, to allow for more settling options.

Oh, and working the unimproved clams was pretty much 100% a mistake.

As far as why the beeline, I figured there was no rush to settle, but the earlier the better on the GLH, both for its commerce benefit and for protecting against massive flukes by industrious AIs. Also, a lighthouse was obviously a huge benefit to the capital's production anyway, another reason it was compelling to go that way sooner rather than later. (+2 free food adds up to a lot of whip hammers)

But yes, I beeline hard sometimes, a habit I think I picked up from AbsoluteZero's VODs. In another thread I bulbed Engineering in the BCs. (directly stolen from AbsoluteZero, that one)

As far as cottages, I started cottaging fairly late. Several other cities had adequate production at that point and the capital wasn't really needed for hammering. I regretted this a bit later when I needed to build Oxford, but if you can get away with it, cottaging hills in your capital is really, really good. How good? A town produces 5 commerce per turn. In a bureaucracy capital, that' 7.5 base commerce. With Oxford, a library, a university, and an academy (not even counting monasteries, observatories, and free religion) that's 22.5 beakers at 100% research. You need to build wealth elsewhere to realize all of it, but even at 50% research that's still nothing to sneeze at. It's kind of like setting two of the mine's hammers to build research at a 5:1 ratio. Sounds like a good deal to me. (I realize I'm not doing the full analysis, I'm just illustrating why it's worth considering)

Finally, I didn't avoid the map because of AI demands, I believe you get demerits just for worst enemy trades. And there was a long period where every single AI but Elizabeth was somebody's worst enemy.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

This one is taking me a little while. Part 3: (of 4, I hope)

Spoiler :

Third round!

What are our challenges?

Though we’re at tech parity now, more or less, Elizabeth has enough land, tech, wonders, and good diplomacy to run away with a space or culture victory. Her only potential rival is Justinian, who hates that she has traded with Wang Kon.

Wang Kon is also large and potentially powerful, but he is locked into eternal combat with Justinian, apparently because they started next to each other and founded Hinduisim and Buddhism respectly. They have so many demerits with each other that they will probably never stop fighting, so they are both more or less out of the picture for good, assuming that Justinian, the clear underdog, doesn’t lose!

In the middle of the pack, we have Gilgamesh, Pericles, and Sitting Bull. Wang Kon dislikes Gilgamesh, and Justinian dislikes Pericles. Besides that, it’s a big happy family. Until we get involved.

Everyone is at pleased towards us, except Wang Kon, who is cautious.

Everyone is running their own self-founded religion, except for Elizabeth, who is running free religion.

Finally, Gilgamesh is plotting war, and we have no good way of knowing his target. It has a chance of being us.

So what are our priorities?

* Find a victory condition for ourselves

* Ensure that Wang Kon does not destroy Justinian

* Stay out of war with Gilgamesh

* Fuel global hatred between the stronger AIs

* Expand our empire in preparation for war with Elizabeth

And what are our resources?

* A powerhouse bureaucracy capital with all the trimmings

* Two additional strong cottage cities

* A national epic city producing 50 GPP per turn without pacifism

* Strong foreign trade routes from the Great Lighthouse, producing a base 195 commerce/turn

* Good land with decent production, and a city count superior to all but the top 2 AIs, as well as several high-food cities suitable for whipping or drafting

* A very slight tech advantage, including a monopoly on chemistry and a near-monopoly on liberalism

* Some possible city locations on an island by Sitting Bull (though we’d need to act fast)

* Good relations with all AIs

So, how are we going to address our priorities using our available resources?

* Make an ally of Sitting Bull. We can gift him a city on his island, and send him some wine to get the “resources” bonus. We should be able to get him to friendly, but he can be bribed to war at cautious. But that’s OK—we can keep him at or close to tech parity so that nobody will bribe him against us. He’ll provide us with technologies off our chosen beeline, and who knows? He might be a peace vassal later.

* Bribe Wang Kon to break off from war with Justinian. We can do this with a non-monopoly tech, printing press, and our partial monopoly tech, liberalism. This frees us to trade liberalism, no longer a monopoly, and gunpowder, already possessed by three civs, for constitution, Practically a freebie. Gilgamesh will additionally give us his map and 110 gold. (and he’s our only option, since Justinian is both Wang Kon’s and Pericles’ worst enemy!)

If that’s unclear, this screenshot should help explain the picture:

* Finish replaceable parts, then bulb scientific method with our inevitable great scientist. It’s important for our overall strategy to know who has oil. It would be nice to grab economics for free trade and custom houses, but I’m not convinced it’s worth the large beaker investment, as we missed the great merchant. Since we’ll have some beakers to blow, we might as well keep with the theme and research Steam Power—which reveals coal—while waiting for our bulb. We have only two cities where we can build levees, but they’re cottage cities, starved for hammers.

* Continue begging gold from Gilgamesh and looking for ways to backstab him. Put all espionage points on him.

* Found cities, or capture barbarian cities, on Sitting Bull’s island

* Build and maintain a strong military production capacity. After scientific method, if there are no ticking bombs, get communism for the great spy, state property workshops, and the Kremlin whip, while keeping in mind that combustion, assembly line, and artillery will be key objectives in preparation for possible war—assuming that we have oil, of course.

So let’s get started!

He changed his price after I gave lib to Mister Kon.

I also pull back one of my auto-exploring galleons to pick up an initial settling force of 2 settlers and a longbow.

A little nightcap for Sitty?:

And that’s it for turn 203. Full speed ahead!

This one is a no-brainer:

No, I’m not actually making an explorer. But I am spreading Buddhism for the happiness and the AP hammers.

Pericles picks up Democracy and Economics, the latter probably by trading Gunpowder to Elizabeth. I should have probably sold it to her first. We wouldn’t mind Democracy for the extra hammer on towns, but it’s not a priority.

Some event happens where I get 300 beakers towards Divine Right. Hooray.

This is good news though:

I also sneak in a trade with Pericles while he’s not anyone’s worst enemy. Yeah, it’s not the best, but it’s some gold and some map, and probably some good diplo as well.

Now everybody has liberalism except for Sitting Bull, who lacks anything of value to the other AIs, so will probably remain behind. Perfect.

I could trade chemistry, but I’m not going to do it just yet. Wang Kon has it but he’s holding onto it I guess.

Our galleon departs:

We beg 10 gold from Gilgamesh, but he refuses. Our peace treaty can be canceled in one turn. Ruh-roh.

The tech picture is also shifting:

Aha! Pericles now has chemistry. Now is about our time to trade it away. We can’t trade it across for democracy, and trading with Justinian is still a no-no, leaving only Elizabeth and Gilgamesh. As much as I don’t want to strengthen Elizabeth, providing someone you may go to war with next turn with a key military tech is bad business.

I don’t know if custom houses are really worth making. Also, Free Market isn’t really useful to us, as we don’t have easy access to a golden age, and we’ll be in State Property soon enough anyway. Nevertheless, economics is a key tech.

Our great person is right on schedule.

Oh my!

Gilgamesh goes to war with Pericles. That’s a relief. Now they both hate each other, so only Sitting Bull and Elizabeth are safe to trade with. (by the way, we haven’t really traded resources because we don’t really need any just yet)

I begin the Moai Statues in Adulis. Probably should have thought of it earlier, but better late than never.

Pericles is running away a little in tech! First he beats us to Scientific Method and now this:

Here’s the thing: Replaceable Parts is our only monopoly tech, The Great Lighthouse obsoletes with Corporation, and Gilgamesh hates the dude. No thanks.

I’ve made a courthouse here and there, but I’ll cut back on them as I’m headed for State Property and they lose their value as an investment.

Great Scientist Alhazen bulbs Scientific Method.

Wang Kon declares war on Gilgamesh! Looks like Pericles gave him Scientific Method and/or Corporation. Justinian shortly stops being the black sheep.

Remember how he’s the weakest civ?

Not any more! Don’t worry, I’m not trading him monopoly techs, I’m just leveling the playing field.

Our galleon arrives at Bull’s Island:

A barbarian city with a border pop! Don’t see those every game. Our plan will be to found a profitable city not he left of the island, working the marble and silver, and gift a city as close to Sitting Bull and the barbarians as possible. It’s a little tightly packed, but I think that founding a city NE from the boat would be decent barbarian fodder, and one NNWW would contribute to our empire. The trick is that there’s only one longbow, but I think we’ll manage. One settler unloads to the east to make sure the coast is clear, then the other two unload in the opposite direction. Fine and dandy.

We have oil in the desert, and coal in the hills. We’re ready for anything.

Communism is next. Let’s hope we get there first!

Can you get a city flipped by barbarian culture? Harar can build a worker in 15 turns or get a delivery from the mainland in 10. He can get a Buddhist Missionary too. Outsourcing it is. It would be nice if I could get a barbarian to step next to Berbera, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. I’ll just gift the city as soon as it has a “liberate” modifier. That might take a while; I really should have put the city one north, come to think of it.

By the way, what to do with our next great person? My late planning means that it will probably be a scientist no matter what. We can’t make a golden age with the great spy because there is no spy because Pericles beat us to Communism!

At least he’s tied up in a war.

Anyway, bulbing physics is a possibility, but it doesn’t seem like a smart one, as one of the AIs is very likely to be there within 7 turns, stealing the free scientist. I’ll probably save him for a golden age, which could mean a lot to us in the future.

Time for a painful revolt:

We have enough towns to make Universal Suffrage worthwhile, and State Property is a pretty big deal at this point. I’ll de-automate workers in case there are some farms we want to workshop over.

I find myself researching Corporation. Fine. We can’t trade for it, and it’s on the path to Assembly Line, which will be the blood of our military behemoth.

An important trade occurs:

See, I told you we were keeping this guy around for a reason. It doesn’t give us any diplomacy but it tells us who has uranium and who doesn’t. This gives us the following strategic picture:

* Justinian lacks coal

* Wang Kon lacks uranium, and oil until plastics

* Pericles lacks uranium and coal

* Sitting Bull lacks oil, and his uranium is in an exposed position on our shared island.

Once again, Sitting Bull has gotten the short straw, and Elizabeth remains firmly in the lead.

Uh-oh, I forgot to startTthe Kremlin. Hopefully I can beat Pericles to it.

As tempting as it is to get Elizabeth to pleased, she is my enemy and I can’t give her such a valuable tech.

Hahaha. No.

Saving our great scientist. He can bulb biology, but it’s barely a third of the beakers.

I’m hammering out aqueducts and markets in preparation for factories and power plants.

I get a quest to invade Native America and take their copper. Sheesh.

Emancipation anger is rising a little.

I’m checking just about every turn for a good deal on rifling.

You know what? I’ll take that deal. Sumeria is a little close to my island, but they’re caught up in a war with the second strongest civ in the world. I guess they made peace with Greece, though.

I buy ivory from Elizabeth for 35 gold per turn to continue combatting Emancipation unhappiness. (it’s cheaper than a 10% slider on culture would be)

I’m not caving yet; as long as my cities can still run their workshops, it’s full speed ahead under Caste System.

After Assembly Line, it’s down to Steel, Railroad, and Combustion.

I’m beaten to The Kremlin by one turn.

Factories and power plants go up, and another trade:

Oh hey, I didn’t know you needed two great people of different types to make a golden age. I’m left with no good option but double-bulbing biology. There are worse things then +1 food on every farm for minimal beaker investment.

Then this is too good of a deal to pass up:

Both of the techs I’m offering are known by every single other civ. The only downside is a demerit from Justinian. (I don’t care about Gilgamesh at all at this point)

Justinian is currently plotting war, probably on Wang Kon. Hmm. I do the trade.

Infantry production begins. Combustion. Flight next.

Sitting Bull at +8, still not pleased. Shame I messed up the city gifting so badly.

Gilgamesh tries to cause some destruction with a frigate.

I construct The Pentagon.

I begin making transports in my Ironworks city. (shame I have no Heroic Epic) With The Pentagon and drydock they should be able to promote to +1 movement speed.

I finally outright give Sitting Bull Assembly Line and Flight, as he’s lagging behind and I want to be his #1 tech pimp. I’m hoping to get the “You have shared…” diplomatic modifier, but I don’t.

I finally give in and revolt into Emancipation after Sitting Bull cancels our old spices deal.

Korea is our ally now, I guess. And Gilgamesh and Justinian are certainly our enemies now.

I pay 40 gold to Gilgamesh for temporary peace, though. The Koreans have pulled out of the war and I don’t want to get caught with my pants down.

Switching into artillery production. Soon we’ll be ready to fight. But who? Byzantium and Sumeria have powerful enemies and despise us, so they’re the only choices.

There is something else, however: Elizabeth seems to be going for a cultural victory. Her cities are still under 15,000 culture, but I have to watch her carefully.

The United Nations, when it gets built, will add some additional complexity here. I seem to be third in population, but I should be first after appropriate conquests.

What will happen? Will I ever get Sitting Bull to pleased? Stay tuned.

 

[LeftAdjoint]

Longest game I've played! Final part of my too-many-pictures series:

Spoiler :

Endgame.

Justinian and Gilgamesh must be destroyed. Elizabeth is pleased with Justinian, but I can withstand the negative modifier, as she’s solidly at friendly, with +5 for free religion!

The only questions are who, by what method, and how to get the other off my back.

Most likely, my target will be Justinian. He has fewer cities, and the coastal 21-population Constantinople has 8 wonders, including The Apostolic Palace, The Cristo Redentor, Broadway, and the Buddhist shrine. A fine prize. Taking Nicaea as well would put me in a good resource trading position, as well as providing additional happiness, and the Cristo Redentor would increase my civics flexibility.

I have 25 infantry, a handful of transports, and I have just acquired Flight and Artillery. Time to build my navy, with some air support, and move at the first moment possible.

What about great people? A merchant could bulb Industrialism, but I’m stupid and will probably get a scientist instead. I will probably bulb fission for later.

I’m going to tech Industrialism anyhow, for future marines, tanks, and battleships.

1775 AD. Wang Kon has begun the space race, and Elizabeth’s culture is inching up.

Finishing Industrialism, I turn to Fission, for the Manhattan project and Ecology for my suffering cities.

Pericles has built the UN, which is bad for me, as it means I need to beat both Wang Kon and Elizabeth in population to be a contender. But neither of them are really in a position to get a diplomatic victory.

This deal caused me to change my mind about Justinian. I can take him off my back right now, and deal with him after I capitulate Gilgamesh, who is downright pissed off at me right now. Wang Kon will not do me the same favor with Gilgamesh.

I just have to hope that Justinian doesn’t capitulate to Wang too easily.

Sure, why not. Having the most powerful civilization on the planet at my back can’t be all bad. I’ll break it when I declare on Gilgamesh, though.

Do we think this is enough to capitulate Gilgamesh? Only one way to find out!

We’ll hit hard and fast.

Hey, the heroic epic!

We’re forced into environmentalism by the United Nations. This wouldn’t happen if I was in charge.

The war drags a little, but after I take 5 of his coastal cities:

In the meantime, an interesting turn of events. Korea has captured Byzantium’s sole source of uranium.

Also, Elizabeth is speeding along to her cultural victory. But we may already have a diplomatic victory ourselves:

Assuming that we have the votes of Elizabeth and Sitting Bull, we’ve won. Otherwise, our next mission is the capture of Constantinople!

Since Korea is no longer a threat to win the game, I feel comfortable with this:

Wouldn’t want to lose the chance to capture Constantinople, would we?

In 1840 AD, a UN vote for Free Speech finally kills my bureaucracy research.

My forces have regrouped and are ready to move against Justinian. They will arrive at Constantinople in 7 turns.

Elizabeth has just edged me out in population, so I am not yet a contender in the UN.

An event randomly destroys a town for some stupid reason.

The fall of Constantinople.

An annoying next turn, though. Constantinople is retaken despite 6 infantries as garrison, and then the UN kicks in:

I’m defying that, clearly.

I just realized that Elizabeth has a world monopoly on rice.

With the introduction of nuclear weapons into the war…

…Justinian still refuses to capitulate!

But in the end, reduced to only one city, even he sees reason.

Now the game can’t be lost. Elizabeth is getting close to a cultural victory, and has all the major world resources, but, critically, no civilization yet possesses satellites. That means no SDI, and a huge advantage to the one ready to attack preemptively with ICBMs. In the meantime we have a large military ready to deploy at any moment, almost double her cities, two vassals, and control of the UN.

The negative diplomacy hits from the nukes means that a diplomatic victory is almost impossible at this stage, however. We have to be careful.

When satellites comes in for us, we’ll be able to see all of Elizabeth’s land—she’s been keeping maps from us—and we’ll plan our assault then.

Here’s what we see:

Our targets are London, Nottingham, and York, the last of which is probably inland. This will be tough. Our assault force is currently approaching from the west, and we have 3 ICBMs completing production in 3, 4, and 5 turns respectively. It is 5 turns to London and 6 turns to Nottingham, 7 if we wait until the last moment to declare war.

York will hit legendary culture in 19 turns at current pace.

So the plan is to move to outside of Nottingham, and in 7 turns declare war, nuke Nottingham and her two sources of uranium, and burn the city to the ground. Our plans after that are dictated by the possibility of a fourth strong culture city, but if there is not one we will fight our best but try to take peace. No sense in getting in over our heads.

Note: she has a defensive pact with Sitting Bull. Unfortunately, I notice this a touch too late to send adequate defenders to our cities on his island. On the other hand, sacrificing those cities is completely reasonable given what’s at stake.

It does mean that one of my ICBMs has to go to his uranium, though.

Success! Nottingham has fallen, and Elizabeth’s cultural threat is no more. Let’s just check the victories screen…

Oh God. Greece is about to win culture as well. Time to turn our entire army around and head for Greece!

This will get messy. I may need to rush buy some ICBMs to keep everyone’s uranium offline. Elizabeth does launch a couple tactical nukes at Constantinople, but no real worries there. At least they weren’t at my army.

Sitting Bull finally takes the city I was trying to give him hundreds of years ago, and I nuke it:

We do take Athens, ending all cultural threats. Assuming that we can hold it. Capitulating Pericles as soon as possible is high on our list of priorities.

Pericles hits me with a nuke. What?! Did Wang Kon trade him uranium?

No matter.

Elizabeth will have Laser in three turns. We have exactly the same techs.

She’ll take peace, though, after all the nuking:

That gives me plenty of time to deal with Sitting Bull.

Oh, here we go again. The Koreans are on the culture path. Sitting Bull will have to wait.

I get all the way to Wang Kon’s borders only to remember that I gave into a demand and have to wait 6 long turns to attack.

I do get peace with Sitting Bull, though. Hopefully Wang Kon doesn’t bribe him and Elizabeth, though he’s pretty behind in tech so I’m not too worried.

The one problem is that he has a city founded on uranium, so I can’t knock it out with ICBMs.

Fortunately, the AI has no idea how to use nukes.

Liz is next!

And as my ships move north to acquire my sixth vassal:

 

[yatta77]

Longest game I've played!

The end game was quite thriller.

 

[CuddlesKill]

I think I will revisit this one, having wrapped up that Chalemagne game. I'm not much for war so this type of game will probably suit me well, if I don't get discouraged on turn 50 for no reason again

 

[LeftAdjoint]

The end game was quite thriller.

Glad you enjoyed the write-up.

I think the critical mistake that made everything so exciting was deciding to use tactical nukes. Sure they were useful, but I didn't need them, and it completely screwed up the diplomacy I'd been working on for hundreds of years. With fun consequences!

 

[WelshGandalf]

@LeftAdjoint

Spoiler :

Questions/comments...
1) Why didn't you attack Sitting Bull early on rather than being friendly with him? As with my game he seemed to be backwards & hated. Then you'd have moer land to yourself (which would've been good as you were heading for a military win) & you could still get him to tech things for you if desired.

2) Your science wasn't quite so brillinat...
Me = 1300 bpt in 1740AD @ 90% slider (with slight gold gain)
You = 901 bpt in 1750AD @ 70% slider (with slight gold loss)

I had a shrine & sid's sushi (giving specialists) & representation which helped me muchly. However I was going for a peaceful win. I'm also quite suprised at how high my science output was.

3) In your game, Wang Kong if first to build Apollo 1775 AD. In mine, I was first (by some way) and I built Apollo about 1856 AD. I don't know why this is but it's one heck of a difference. My game had very little war too; though the Koreans did get invaded (unsuccessfully) once. To be honest I mostly ignored the political situation & concentrated on Sid sushi-ing my way to space.

4) Thanks for the write-up though it msut've taken you quite some time!

 

[LeftAdjoint]

@WelshGandalf

Spoiler :

1) I'm still getting used to the subtleties of the lategame, and I made a number of questionable calls. My reasoning was that I could control Sitting Bull without war, but he turns out to be a fairly uncooperative AI. I was sure I could get him to friendly, but I never did, partially due to botching my gift city. (then botching it again, letting his cultural borders cover the last remaining place on the island I could make one)

Still, the way it played out, I had enough on my hands with Justinian and Gilgamesh by the time my big army was ready. It would not surprise me in the least if this was largely due to poor empire management on my part, but that's how it happened.

2) Probably the fact that my whole empire was geared to military production made a wee bit of difference. There's also a noticeable difference in pace between Monarch and Immortal; techs cost more beakers, maintenance is higher, and the AI pays less for everything and starts with a worker. And more/earlier barbarians slow down the opening a lot. Something to keep in mind. (though I'm sure I made dozens of serious mistakes as well)

3) Partly it's the difficulty difference, but I also traded quite a lot, which increased the tech pace. I don't know if that was a good choice or not, but most of the trades individually seemed to make sense, and I only traded techs that two or more AIs already knew.

4) You're welcome. It helps my thought process to write a lot down, and sometimes I get carried away...

 

[CuddlesKill]

Spoiler :

I'm getting my behind handed to me I wish I had documented it. Wonders are being built before I even researched the technology to get them. I know that's kind of the point of isolation... But it's Prince difficulty, the land is favorable, and I did swing the GLH, so I'm actually quite pleased with my research rate, which with those island cities commerce is a comfortable 90%. It's by far faster than the other games I've played here, in fact!

 

[LeftAdjoint]

@CuddlesKill

Spoiler :

There are better measures of how well you're doing in a game then how many wonders your opponents are getting. AIs that wonderspam early often underexpand and suck later.

Also, beware using the research slider as a measure of how good your research is. 100% of 50 is no better than 50% of 100—and the latter is usually better, as it means you possess more land to develop)