[R&F] Loyalty and Loyalty Pressure

[stealth_nsk]

Now that we know the scope of the loyalty numbers, how is Radio Oranje's +1 loyalty from trade routes enough to matter at all?

Found a forward-settled city. Send 3-4 internal trade routes from it. Overcome foreign influence in the city while building infrastructure with bonus production and growing with bonus food. Sounds pretty strong.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Now that we know the scope of the loyalty numbers, how is Radio Oranje's +1 loyalty from trade routes enough to matter at all?

It's +1 loyalty per turn.

 

[Victoria]

Positive Loyalty pressure from ratio of number of foreign Tourists from a foreign city to your cities to the number of internal Tourists from that city to the owner Civ of that city

Domestic tourism is not city based currently.
Foreign tourism is based on target city only, not source city
Changing the way this works to what you say would make the whole thing rather more complex than I want to think about.

Positive Loyalty pressure for foreign cities following your Religion.

I am not sure religion has anything to do with empire. They are quite different beasts. A religious person thinks about the religious empire rather than the governmental one.

I agree with your first point, there should be some negatives around war based on type and era.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Now that we know the scope of the loyalty numbers, how is Radio Oranje's +1 loyalty from trade routes enough to matter at all?

It stacks. You could conceivably use a bunch of internal trade routes to protect a city from foreign loyalty pressure, or add some policies and a governor to flip neighboring cities.

 

[kryat]

Something only alluded to so far that’s a side effect of the loyalty pressure mechanic is that empire geometry matters more. Tightly clustered empires will naturally exert more loyalty on themselves than long, thin empires.

I’d like to see a mathematical analysis that helps determine consequences of various shapes and population distributions.

Theoretically, the optimal play (exerting maximum loyalty on the maximum number of cities for a given population and number of cities) would be to have your cities all possess equal population and be distributed uniformly within a circle. Inhomogeneous population densities and elongated empire shapes will contribute to cold spots in loyalty coverage.

Religion has basically worked the same way, except here you have far fewer options to exert loyalty pressure back inwards on your empire from externally.

 

[Victoria]

Religion has basically worked the same way,

Well, it does not decrease with distance. Having a city 4 away or 10 away make no difference to religious pressure.

 

[kryat]

Well, it does not decrease with distance. Having a city 4 away or 10 away make no difference to religious pressure.

Does religious pressure work on a threshold system then? I haven’t looked. When the devs mentioned the 10% falloff, I assumed that religion must have worked the same way since the fall update. There must be something since cities on the other side of the world exert zero pressure.

 

[pgm123]

Yup, you are right. I just want to see some negatives against war.

It's possible conquered cities have lower loyalty.

 

[V. Soma]

Watching the stream I see that city flipping is a number of turns based on effects of cities, governors, etc...

...but is gamespeed calculated in it in some way?

Will a flip happen in, say, 5 turns on all speed - from online to maraton?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Watching the stream I see that city flipping is a number of turns based on effects of cities, governors, etc...

...but is gamespeed calculated in it in some way?

Will a flip happen in, say, 5 turns on all speed - from online to maraton?

I don't think gamespeed affect it somehow. We have some small loyalty modifiers, like +2, -1 and so on. We also have fixed caps of 0 and 100 with loyalty values moving between them. I don't see much space for scaling there.

However, if loyalty system is designed primarily to count conquest, that should work, as military actions don't scale too.

 

[Roy P Cat]

It stacks. You could conceivably use a bunch of internal trade routes to protect a city from foreign loyalty pressure, or add some policies and a governor to flip neighboring cities.

Conceivably you could, but when trade routes are only granted once there is a market in a CH or a Lighthouse in the harbour, this strategy is not as easy to set up as it would be currently. Personally I like this and can see myself possibly dropping a difficulty level because of it.