[LP] Leader Pass Pack 1: Great Negotiators (Nov. 2022) - Patch Notes Discussion

[AntSou]

Just realized that there is no mention of Ana Nzinga being replaced as a GG, now that she is leader in the game. Maybe it was an oversight because the leader uses her native name instead of the one she used when she converted to Catholicism?

Good question.

When playing with the Great Negotiators Pack, Ana Nzinga becomes the leader of the Kongolese civilization and is replaced as a Great General by Amina.

From the Civ Fandom Site.

 

[Takfloyd]

I mean... you just described PR. That's kind of what you do as a company.

I also just described a company that doesn't do it that way, and is more trusted, respected and successful as a result.

 

[Kwami]

I also just described a company that doesn't do it that way, and is more trusted, respected and successful as a result.

[Citation needed]

 

[Jkchart]

Kinda wild that the first of these four that ended up actually being exciting for me was the one not in the pass…Julius Caesar. Is it the best ability ever? No, but it’s useful especially early game on harder difficulty to make some more gold to continue conquests and securing borders. I really enjoyed using him, and he synergizes nicely with the rest of the kit.

I’m currently working through a Lincoln game and his ability works nicely enough so far. Loyalty malus isn’t too bad to manage, free units are nice from IZs without being super OP. Yeah maybe not as cool as Basil’s syngery but works.

I expect to enjoy Queen Nzinga enough since I liked Maya quite a bit, just a slight strategy change. A bit more bland/copy paste but meh.

Saladin…yeah he’s gonna be last. It’s just not exciting to me. I’m sure it’s fine in practice and a Mamluk rush will be great with this one but…yeah just not feeling it.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I wounder how interesting would Lincoln would be if his ability made IZ build half a time like Hojo's ability with HS, TS and Encampment. Too OP?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Kinda wild that the first of these four that ended up actually being exciting for me was the one not in the pass…Julius Caesar. Is it the best ability ever? No, but it’s useful especially early game on harder difficulty to make some more gold to continue conquests and securing borders. I really enjoyed using him, and he synergizes nicely with the rest of the kit.

I’m currently working through a Lincoln game and his ability works nicely enough so far. Loyalty malus isn’t too bad to manage, free units are nice from IZs without being super OP. Yeah maybe not as cool as Basil’s syngery but works.

I expect to enjoy Queen Nzinga enough since I liked Maya quite a bit, just a slight strategy change. A bit more bland/copy paste but meh.

Saladin…yeah he’s gonna be last. It’s just not exciting to me. I’m sure it’s fine in practice and a Mamluk rush will be great with this one but…yeah just not feeling it.

nzinga--you can choose a religion and you can pick reliquaries. This is a totally different current game for me. I know most of that is just losing the malus comibined with getting a good map but it's fun.

 

[Takfloyd]

[Citation needed]

Appeal to authority fallacy and not a valid argument.

You can compare the sentiment towards the developers on this forum to that of Paradox's for proof of my statement.

 

[Kwami]

Appeal to authority fallacy and not a valid argument.

You can compare the sentiment towards the developers on this forum to that of Paradox's for proof of my statement.

You have no evidence that Paradox has been "more successful", nor that they're "more trusted" or "more respected". Perhaps you feel that way, but your personal feelings are personal. It's been a while since I've posted on the Paradox forums, but I remember quite a lot of anger, distrust, and outright hostility toward the developers. In fact, the head of the studio had to come out and apologize for releasing bad content for a couple of years and promised to do better in the future. They had to spend an entire year fixing bugs in EUIV because the game was so buggy and bloated that adding new content just broke more stuff.

I'm not anti-Paradox, really. I enjoyed EUIV for a while and Stellaris was fun, too. But let's not pretend that Paradox is some kind of model to look up to. They have plenty of their own problems. If I had to choose between the Paradox model and the Firaxis model, I'd choose Firaxis every time. Well, pre-NFP, at least. The NFP stuff started to get a little too Paradoxy for me.

 

[Takfloyd]

You have no evidence that Paradox has been "more successful", nor that they're "more trusted" or "more respected". Perhaps you feel that way, but your personal feelings are personal. It's been a while since I've posted on the Paradox forums, but I remember quite a lot of anger, distrust, and outright hostility toward the developers. In fact, the head of the studio had to come out and apologize for releasing bad content for a couple of years and promised to do better in the future. They had to spend an entire year fixing bugs in EUIV because the game was so buggy and bloated that adding new content just broke more stuff.

I'm not anti-Paradox, really. I enjoyed EUIV for a while and Stellaris was fun, too. But let's not pretend that Paradox is some kind of model to look up to. They have plenty of their own problems. If I had to choose between the Paradox model and the Firaxis model, I'd choose Firaxis every time. Well, pre-NFP, at least. The NFP stuff started to get a little too Paradoxy for me.

Did you miss the part where Paradox successfully changed their ways and won the players' trust? That is what I am asking for from the Firaxis team.

Literally everyone who follows both Civ VI and Stellaris closely can confirm the veracity of what I am saying. I already told you where the evidence is - it only takes a glance at each community, or the steam reviews, to know what the player sentiment is. You don't get to stick your head in the sand and then claim there's no evidence.

Imagine if someone at Firaxis ever came out and said sorry for all the bugs that get left in the game for years at a time, like you mention with Paradox. That would be a start. But nope, no humility or sincerity from them, let alone fixes.

 

[Kwami]

Did you miss the part where Paradox successfully changed their ways and won the players' trust? That is what I am asking for from the Firaxis team.

Literally everyone who follows both Civ VI and Stellaris closely can confirm the veracity of what I am saying. I already told you where the evidence is - it only takes a glance at each community, or the steam reviews, to know what the player sentiment is. You don't get to stick your head in the sand and then claim there's no evidence.

Imagine if someone at Firaxis ever came out and said sorry for all the bugs that get left in the game for years at a time, like you mention with Paradox. That would be a start. But nope, no humility or sincerity from them, let alone fixes.

On the other hand, it doesn't cost $200+ to play Civ VI with all of the DLC. And if we're going by something as silly as Steam reviews, well, Civ VI has far more reviews than EU IV and Stellaris, which argues against your claim of "more successful". I don't have sales figures for these games, but I'd bet that Civ VI has sold more copies than either of the other two and perhaps more than the other two combined.

Civ VI:
RECENT REVIEWS:
Very Positive (4,259)
ALL REVIEWS:
Very Positive (169,828)

EU IV:
RECENT REVIEWS:
Very Positive (635)
ALL REVIEWS:
Very Positive (76,211)

Stellaris:
RECENT REVIEWS:
Very Positive (914)
ALL REVIEWS:
Very Positive (97,580)

 

[bbbt]

On the other hand, it doesn't cost $200+ to play Civ VI with all of the DLC. And if we're going by something as silly as Steam reviews, well, Civ VI has far more reviews than EU IV and Stellaris, which argues against your claim of "more successful". I don't have sales figures for these games, but I'd bet that Civ VI has sold more copies than either of the other two and perhaps more than the other two combined.

Based on https://steamcharts.com, Civ 6 has more active player's than Paradoxes top 3 games (Hearts of Iron, Cities Skylines, Victoria 3) combined.

 

[Zaarin]

Did you miss the part where Paradox successfully changed their ways and won the players' trust?

I certainly did. It seems like Paradox can't do anything without their entire player base booing and hissing and demanding they do something else other than what they're currently doing, no matter what it is. Paradox games seem to have the most hateful "fans" of any game I play.

Imagine if someone at Firaxis ever came out and said sorry for all the bugs that get left in the game for years at a time, like you mention with Paradox. That would be a start. But nope, no humility or sincerity from them, let alone fixes.

A patch would be nice, but I have no interest in seeing Ed Beach grovel for his job. I'm not sure why that would change anything.

 

[DWilson]

E.g., Imperator Rome (which I maintain was a good base, despite complaints from top to bottom, especially about 'mana', really a system that frankly works well for gamifying history as shown in the often successful EUIV, and which was later stripped to no avail)

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

On the other hand, it doesn't cost $200+ to play Civ VI with all of the DLC

Well, you are speaking for yourself there. I purchased each as they came out, so I'm pretty sure it cost me over $200 in the end.

 

[Linklite]

Well, you are speaking for yourself there. I purchased each as they came out, so I'm pretty sure it cost me over $200 in the end.

Yeah, it depends on when in the development cycle you catch it and whether you get bundles. Buying everything separately and at full price would certainly cost north of $200. On the other hand, you can get it for like $30 right now. The price is highly variable.

 

[Kwami]

I was being generous with the $200+ figure. Buying the EU IV DLC at full price would cost far more than that.

 

[aieeegrunt]

If this isn't fixed after 18 months of us finding this bug, I truly may never play this game or any future version of Civ again. I mean it. It's simply disrespectful of the player base, especially those who cannot mod games (ala console users).



More like "Theranos"

It says it all doesnt it

Civ6 is just a bloated mess at this point. I would trade in all of the new leaders for one final, comprehensive gameplay polish patch.

Your only hope here is the modding community

Everyone with a brain agrees, but unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will see "ooh shiny new leader" and give Firaxis their money no matter how janky the actual game is. There's no clear economic incentive for Firaxis to bother with free polish, gameplay improvements and bugfixes.

However, if they take a look at their close competitor Paradox Studios, they might learn that the developers of Stellaris are seeing great success and immense goodwill and loyalty from their players after they created a dedicated bugfix/polish/AI/general improvement team that pushes out free updates despite the game being like 7 years old now. That game used to be even more janky than Civ VI and they managed to fix it and win all the fans back.

I tried playing Stellaris. What a convoluted unintuitive mess

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Ana gets replaced, I believe the new Great General is called Amina.

 

[nzcamel]

On communication over bugs I think this update report from Wingspan is excellent. Not only does it cover the bugs fixed, but also bugs that they are still working on fixing. That kind of feedback goes a long way to giving people confidence that their issues are not being ignored. Of course maybe there is an ongoing bug they haven't listed, but that does still make communication easier for everyone, as fans who think it needs attention can act off the information.

 

[Haig]

I must say I am really impressed with Amplitude, their tools (for modding - Unity) and the speed and quality of development.
They released an expansion on a pared down team as well but are fairing considerably better than Firaxis RN (though HUMANKIND is not without its own set of bugs and exploits).

I disagree, Humankind is filled with bugs, some like the infamous turn pending bug not fixed since release. Most of the posts on Steam and Amplitude forums are abouts bugs and crashing.

They also left Endless Legend and Endless Space 2 with issues that were never fixed.

Most of the HK team has moved to the Dungeon game(forgot name) as admitted by devs.

And the latest HK release got a pretty lukewarm response.