[LP] Leader Pass Pack 1: Great Negotiators (Nov. 2022) - Patch Notes Discussion

Zaarin

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They also left Endless Legend and Endless Space 2 with issues that were never fixed.
I'm very salty about the state they left ES2 in. It was my favorite 4X game, but it's a mess now. I can't even recommend it to people because they left it in such shambles.
 

AntSou

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Most of the HK team has moved to the Dungeon game(forgot name) as admitted by devs.
What, already??

I'm very salty about the state they left ES2 in. It was my favorite 4X game, but it's a mess now. I can't even recommend it to people because they left it in such shambles.
Never got to play that game as whenever I feel in the mood for Space 4X I just install Stellaris. That's disheartening.
 

Zaarin

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Never got to play that game as whenever I feel in the mood for Space 4X I just install Stellaris. That's disheartening.
ES2 is a very different game from Stellaris, more closely related to the Civ model. It used to be great, but the last few patches (which I believe were actually outsourced) introduced some major bugs and balance issues. The game was then abandoned for HK. It seems like SEGA has not been good for Amplitude in the long run, pushing them to keep moving on to the next project.
 

DWilson

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Was it more akin to the similarly underdeveloped Beyond Earth (I persist as Beyond Earth truth we, as well, haha)
 

Zaarin

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Was it more akin to the similarly underdeveloped Beyond Earth (I persist as Beyond Earth truth we, as well, haha)
It's set in space, but it's turn-based, its colonies function more like traditional 4X cities, etc. Stellaris is more of a 4X game than Paradox's other titles, but it still has the fundamental Paradox DNA. ES2 is much more of a traditional 4X game in space.
 

blackbutterfly

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I disagree, Humankind is filled with bugs, some like the infamous turn pending bug not fixed since release. Most of the posts on Steam and Amplitude forums are abouts bugs and crashing.
They also left Endless Legend and Endless Space 2 with issues that were never fixed.
Most of the HK team has moved to the Dungeon game(forgot name) as admitted by devs.
And the latest HK release got a pretty lukewarm response.

You are prolly right on most counts, however, we're not here to talk about HUMANKIND 🙂

Re: modding tools.
Unity is a widely used toolkit.
The files generated are YAML (but you never really edit them directly). It's more condensed than XML and ideal for when you're not directly editing the markup.

One of the many problems of having so much of the game content in XML is that it is prone to human error, which is evident in Civ VI.
(Once you start modding you realize how many holes are in the XML and .lua it's surprising the game functions at all).

Civ VII really needs an advanced modding toolkit.

I am play testing my maps (scripts) for Civ VI (adding Leader Pass TSLs) and it feels like "a kids" 4X compared to HUMANKIND.
I cannot help myself take advantage of Civ VI exploits (my favourite being Apocalypse mode hyperyields). There aren't any major exploits in HUMANKIND AFAIK.

In Civ VI spotting exploits it's a sport.

Boes just posted this:
 

Laurana Kanan

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iammaxhailme

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Lord Lakely

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I thought Lincoln got RID of free labour.
These soldiers are emancipated. They're perfectly capable of supporting themselves. :p

(I'm not sure if that was the intention, but that is a way to emancipate, I guess :lol:)
 

Melkus

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I probably shouldn't jump to conclusions or dwell in "negativity" (I like to call it "realism"), but will of course now do it anyway:

The marketing people are in charge, the coders have moved elsewhere. Firaxis gets away with modding their own game, because they mostly cater to show-boating streamers (and their audience), war gamers, multiplayers these days. Cheap new stuff -> more Let's Plays -> more visibility. Slipping standards (zero patch notes).
So a thing like the powerplant issue naturally gets overlooked / swept under the carpet, as the game is "decided anyway at this point". More cynically, such entertaining exploits drive youtube views upwards.

They seem afraid to touch their own code at this point, because the knowledge has left the project, different platforms and DLC combinations are tough to manage, testing hours are limited. (also less charitably: the codebase might be a bit of a mess) We'll see if there's some sort of patch later, but it's definitely an afterthought based on their communication.
 

Casworon

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I disagree, Humankind is filled with bugs, some like the infamous turn pending bug not fixed since release. Most of the posts on Steam and Amplitude forums are abouts bugs and crashing.

They also left Endless Legend and Endless Space 2 with issues that were never fixed.

Most of the HK team has moved to the Dungeon game(forgot name) as admitted by devs.

And the latest HK release got a pretty lukewarm response.
Just going to point out that Endless Legend has a simply fantastic Community Patch which fixes lots of bugs and makes massive AI improvements.

With the way the modern gaming industry is going modders having as much access as possible to a game is the key ingredient in its long term quality.

Endless Legend with the community Patch and Civ V with the Vox Populi mod are both simply fantastic 4x games that have years of development and tweaking put into them.

Against that i'm not sure any new title is really going to be able to compete. Especially with the DLL code never being released for Civ VI im highly doubtful it's ever going to be released for Civ VII.

Which means the greatest Civ title has probably already been released
 

blackbutterfly

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Slipping standards (zero patch notes).
So a thing like the powerplant issue naturally gets overlooked / swept under the carpet, as the game is "decided anyway at this point". More cynically, such entertaining exploits drive youtube views upwards.

This is another thing Amplitude have done considerably better than Firaxis.

Communication.
Especially with the community.

They release detailed patch notes on discord and G2G.

They involve the community in open+closed betas and public previews.
In fact in the latest "Hotfix 2" just released I can spot two bugs fixed which I posted the bug reports. (I haven't looked at the full notes yet).

Meanwhile all of us post on CivFanatics Bug Reports forum reports that languish and gather dust.

There is only 1 bug I have reported for Civ VI that ever got addressed:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-mode-naval-raider-loot-exploit-fixed.668080/

That was after SpiffingBrit did an exploit YouTube 😆

In fact @Haig IMO one reason HUMANKIND's first expansion wasn't quite so well received is because Amplitude backtracked on involving the community quite as much as it originally did,
following in Firaxis footsteps.
 

Zaarin

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I thought Lincoln got RID of free labour.
Nah, the Union practiced conscription, though they were a little nicer about letting off conscientious objectors (sometimes) than the Confederacy was, probably because Lincoln himself ardently admired conscientious objectors. Doesn't mean some conscientious objectors weren't jailed or forcibly conscripted by the Union, though.
 

iammaxhailme

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Nah, the Union practiced conscription, though they were a little nicer about letting off conscientious objectors (sometimes) than the Confederacy was, probably because Lincoln himself ardently admired conscientious objectors. Doesn't mean some conscientious objectors weren't jailed or forcibly conscripted by the Union, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots for some relevant context
 
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