ls612's C2C Units

[ls612]

@Thunderbrd

Do you mean? ...

Raft (1) -> War Canoe (3) -> War Galley (4) -> Trireme (6)

Raft (1) -> Canoe (2) -> Galley (3) -> Cog (6)

I like this one much better. It more accurately delineates the distinction between combat and transport ships in the earlier eras.

Also, regarding when I'll get around do doing all of this stuff, I'm currently working on making the City Limit Scaling a gameoption, so once I get that and the Blitz fix done I'll move on to these. So probably on this weekend.

 

[strategyonly]

Also, regarding when I'll get around do doing all of this stuff, I'm currently working on making the City Limit Scaling a gameoption, so once I get that and the Blitz fix done I'll move on to these. So probably on this weekend.

Good to know, thx for the info.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ornithopter should probably require Ornithopter Aerie to build else wise any built one will go to the nearest fort.

 

[God-Emperor]

Ornithopter should probably require Ornithopter Aerie to build else wise any built one will go to the nearest fort.

I'm guessing you saw this in a game where you did a modifier recalculation at some point.

The default number of air units allowed in a city is controlled by a defined integer, CITY_AIR_UNIT_CAPACITY. This is set to 8 (unless changed since C2Cv27) in GlobalDefines.xml.

So you can have 8 air units in a city without any building that adds capacity.

Except if you do a modifier recalculation. The recalucation sets the base air unit capacity of every city to 0 in CvCity's clearModifierTotals function. It does not reapply the value specified by CITY_AIR_UNIT_CAPACITY in CvCity's recalculateModifiers function. (I mentioned this somewhere before and fixed it in R2R...)

 

[ls612]

Except if you do a modifier recalculation. The recalucation sets the base air unit capacity of every city to 0 in CvCity's clearModifierTotals function. It does not reapply the value specified by CITY_AIR_UNIT_CAPACITY in CvCity's recalculateModifiers function. (I mentioned this somewhere before and fixed it in R2R...)

OK, good to know. I'll see if I can fix that and get it in with my City Limit options.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro:

OK, I've done the first part of the suggested Naval rebalance. The only thing was that I could not find the Sloop of War, so I couldn't change it.

 

[strategyonly]

see post 1629 . . .

 

[ls612]

that is probably because we just named it "Sloop."

No, there was a Sloop unit as well.

 

[God-Emperor]

The Sloop and the Sloop of War are two different ship types. The Sloop is better at attacking Galleons, but the Sloop of War might have a slightly better chance to win vs. everything else (and much better vs. the Barbary Corsair units), with its higher strength but no first strikes and a base withdraw of 0 rather than the large 40% the Sloop has, and costs less production to build even if you have prime timber (which gives +20% production for the Sloop, but not the Sloop of War).

The Sloop is UNIT_SLOOP in the main CIV4UnitInfos.xml. It requires the Metallurgy and Optics techs and both iron and sulfur (and gets +20% production with prime timber). Strength 12 (+50% vs. Galleon), 1-2 first strikes, 40% withdraw, move 5, can enter rival territory without open borders, bombard 5, cost 200, upgrades to Frigate (in v27).

The Sloop of War is UNIT_SLOOP_OF_WAR in Modules\OrionsMods\Merchants_and_Pirates\Pirates_CIV4UnitInfos.xml (even though it is not a pirate ship - more of an anti-pirate ship). It requires the Guilds, Piracy, and Compass techs and only iron (not sulfur, which may be an oversight, and not built any faster with any resource). Strength 14 (+50% vs. Barbary Corsair), move 5, bombard 12, cost 150, upgrades to Ironclad (again, in v27). Oddly, it contributes less to your power rating than the Sloop (10 vs. 25) even though it is stronger, but has higher iAssets (3 vs. 1).

They are a peculiar pair. Almost equal, but not quite. In general I think the 14 strength is slightly better than 12 strength + 1-2 first strikes, but that 40% withdraw gives the Sloop a pretty good chance of surviving when it doesn't win.

 

[ls612]

The Sloop of War is UNIT_SLOOP_OF_WAR in Modules\OrionsMods\Merchants_and_Pirates\Pirates_CIV4UnitInfos.xml (even though it is not a pirate ship - more of an anti-pirate ship. It requires the Guilds, Piracy, and Compass techs and only iron (not sulfur, which may be an oversight, and not built any faster with any resource). Strength 14 (+50% vs. Barbary Corsair), move 5, bombard 12, cost 150, upgrades to Ironclad (again, in v27). Oddly, it contributes less to your power rating than the Sloop (10 vs. 25) even though it is stronger, but has higher iAssets (3 vs. 1).

They are a peculiar pair. Almost equal, but not quite. In general I think the 14 strength is slightly better than 12 strength + 1-2 first strikes, but that 40% withdraw gives the Sloop a pretty good chance of surviving when it doesn't win.

Hm I could swear that I had merged the Orions pirates into the core, but I haven't apparently. Thanks for the pointer anyways.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hm I could swear that I had merged the Orions pirates into the core, but I haven't apparently. Thanks for the pointer anyways.

Not sure that you should merge them either.

On pirates: as I mentioned before I think that they should be national units. After a bit of testing I reckon they should have the limit of 5 (not 15) like the Hunter and Sniper lines.

 

[strategyonly]

Not sure that you should merge them either.

On pirates: as I mentioned before I think that they should be national units. After a bit of testing I reckon they should have the limit of 5 (not 15) like the Hunter and Sniper lines.

I think DH "might" have a good reason for this, BUT if its "faster" then yes, if not then just leave it.

I also agree with DH's idea on the pirates, mainly because if you look at history even today, the pirate ships only have ONE "maybe" 2 ships coming after the intended Civ/ship, so a low amount of ships will be more closer to reality. Your ideas/suggestion, also Hydro, what say you??

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Ok the next set of Naval units ...

Raft
Upgrades to: Canoe or War Canoe

Canoe
Upgrades to: Galley

Tomol
- Increase to Strength 3
Upgrades to: Galley

Paddle Steamer
- Increase to Cargo Space 4

Transport
- Increase to Cargo Space 5

Landing Ship Tank
- Increase to Cargo Space 6

Fusion Transport
- Increase to Cargo Space 7

Ship of the Line
- Upgrades to Pre-Dreadnought OR Early Destroyer
- Change Accuracy to 60

Iron Frigate
- Increase to Movement 5

Destroyer (UNITCLASS_DESTROYER)
- Rename to "Modern Destroyer"
- Increase to Strength 64

Fusion Destroyer
- Increase to Strength 120

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612 (or others)

I am running into problems with Dave’s suggestion a bunch of his ideas are completely different from the existing unit stats. For example ...

Destroyer (Modern Destroyer)
WW 2 era Destroyer.
Stats: Strength 64, Movement 9, Can see Submarines, Defends first against Nautilus, Early Submarine, Submarine, Attack Submarine and Nuclear Submarine, Upgrades into Stealth Destroyer only.

and the real stats ...

Modern Destroyer
Strength: 62
Movement : 9
- Can See Submarine
- This Unit is Tradable
- Ignores Terrain movement Costs
- Can Intercept Aircraft (5% Chance)
- +100% vs Wooden Ships
- +20% vs Wooden Ships
- Defends First Against Submarine, Attack Submarine
- Can Perform Ranged Attacks
- Range 1
- Accuracy 80
- Can Bomb City Defense (-16% Per Turn)
- +1 Per Turn
- Ignores Building Defense

I am very confused since it seems weird to just throw away all the other stats it has. This is common with the other ship suggestions. Please look them over and let me know what you think we should do.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

While you are working on the boats can you make sure that all wooden ships have some build adjustment for Prime Timber and Hemp? I think I got all the prime timber ones when I went through last time but don't think we have added the hemp build bonus - it was used for rope, cables and sails. iirc it took 30 acres of hemp to outfit one ship of the line.

 

[intlidave]

I'm back
Hydro, the ship stats aren't finished and so their special rules are mostly missing (they are the part that's least complete about my unit suggestions; generally they should similar to what they are; I'll go back to working on them in the near future).
For example, here are my thoughts on the Destroyer
- Can See Submarine
- This Unit is Tradable
- Ignores Terrain movement Costs
- Can Intercept Aircraft (MORE THAN 5% Chance)
- +0% vs Wooden Ships (it already has 4-10 times their Strength)
- Defends First Against Nautilus, Early Submarine, Submarine (not completely sure about Attack Submarine and Nuclear Submarine)
- Can Perform Ranged Attacks (that do damage, currently its ranged attack does nothing)
- Range 1
- Accuracy 80
- Can Bomb City Defense (-16% Per Turn, give or take - should be about 30-50% less than same tier artillery)
- +1 Per Turn (probably more than +1)
- Ignores Building Defense

 

[intlidave]

About interception:
C2C incorporates Improved Interception mod (it's a part of Rise of Mankind)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=359668
This means that interception chances in my suggestion list are WRONG (they should be lower). I'll try to fix this ASAP.

 

[emidurand]

Ehi boys, someone know a good mod to insert different ethnic graphic for units? Just like Realism Invictus do. I don't know how modify this aspect that coul be interesting. I'm speaking about graphic. No new units at all. Ancient and Classical era are perfect to me, but since medieval era there are many units that could be improved like other mods. Do you know some mod for c2c?

Thanks!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@intlidave

Let me know when you have finished with the ships then. Make sure you list all the stats you want to stay or list stats you want removed. It much easier for me to go over them that way and ultimately give the orders to ls612.

So far all I have really done is have some Strength and movement tweaks as well as stuff I and Vokarya thought needed changing.

 

[ls612]

About interception:
C2C incorporates Improved Interception mod (it's a part of Rise of Mankind)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=359668
This means that interception chances in my suggestion list are WRONG (they should be lower). I'll try to fix this ASAP.

We've already redone all of the Air and Tank units, with your suggestions after my modifications. We are currently working on Ships. Also, Welcome Back.