Luchiurp and Balseraph nerfing suggestions

[Darksaber1]

Well sure Wood burns, but so do witches and Mages.
Sir Bedivere: "And what do we burn other the witches?"
Pesent: More Witches!
Pesent: Umm, Wood?
This argument proves that Mages should burn.

 

[Vehem]

Well sure Wood burns, but so do witches and Mages.
Sir Bedivere: "And what do we burn other the witches?"
Pesent: More Witches!
Pesent: Umm, Wood?
This argument proves that Mages should burn.

"It's a fair cop".

This does kinda make me want to add an option involving ducks to the "Witch Event".

(for those who are utterly confused)

 

[hbar]

So I had an idea this morning, and this seems like the appropriate setting...

One really unbalanced thing about puppets is the ability to cast dominate w/o any risks. What if, on domination failure, puppets turned barbarian instead of losing mind III. The idea is that a golem meddling with high level mind magic becomes self aware and goes on a killing (and dominating) spree. That could really put a damper on a puppet-heavy invasion in a hurry, and makes for some amusing mental images...

 

[MiKa523]

If they turn barbarian with their low strength, either your adepts or the enemy units have some easy xp for sure, before the puppets could cause any harm.

I'd rather see Domination fixed than puppets that just carry on the issues.
Get rid of the very annoying ability loss, which is no problem for Balserraph anyway due to puppets and druids, and add higher resistance or significantly decrease the odds for succesful domination.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

"It's a fair cop".

This does kinda make me want to add an option involving ducks to the "Witch Event".

(for those who are utterly confused)

I'm thinking there really needs to be a Balseraph-specific option like that.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

I'm thinking there really needs to be a Balseraph-specific option like that.

I second that. Would fit them perfectly

 

[kenken244]

I fourth that.

 

[Kael]

All good feedback. And I agree with the others that as flavorful as exploding golems may be, its just not fun.

Im going to do some playtesting with the Luchuirp worldspell moved to masonry and puppets getting a penalty to casting (both to damage and resitance chances). The balseraphs are supposed to be the best dominators in the game (mind is their promary sphere after all), but it is to strong as is and we want to grant strategic options, not make them so lopsided that its a no brainer.

Blasting workshop will also be moving to Sorcery.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The move to sorcery doesn't strike me as something that will matter all that much (elementalism leads right to it), though I suppose it doesn't need to be a drastic change if you're killing off the turn 1 world spell strategy.

 

[Zechnophobe]

The move to sorcery doesn't strike me as something that will matter all that much (elementalism leads right to it), though I suppose it doesn't need to be a drastic change if you're killing off the turn 1 world spell strategy.

The two combined will definitely reign them in a good deal. And while Sorcery is 'just after' elementalism, it is still a goodly expensive tech.

 

[smusebaer]

I got an great idea for the Fireball-golems.
A siegemode!
Spell for enable siegemode :
lose move
Gain Fireball Ability (perhaps with range 3)
lose some strength (-2 )
gain spell for enable combatmode.

That would be a big drawback, with a lot of fun.

 

[catquiet]

Very cool idea, but it might be simpler to give golems a version of the Fireball spell that takes a few turns to cast, like Bloom. The golems would have to stand still for a while to build up boiler pressure, then they could spit a flaming loogie of doom upon their enemies.

 

[hbar]

The two combined will definitely reign them in a good deal. And while Sorcery is 'just after' elementalism, it is still a goodly expensive tech.

Sorcery also requires one of the other "mana" techs, or writing, so that adds another tech to the queue.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I still like the idea of having fireball avalable only for iron golems and above. it makes sense and would solve the "overpowered luchuirp with woodgolems casting fireballs over and over again" that many have complained about.

 

[uberfish]

Im going to do some playtesting with the Luchuirp worldspell moved to masonry and puppets getting a penalty to casting (both to damage and resitance chances).

Try out the 1 summoner -> 3 puppets -> 9 spectres too

 

[LDiCesare]

Why not limit puppets to 1st level spells?

Loki taking a city from another civ should also declare war immediately between that civ and the Balseraphs. I suppose any human who would see Loki incoming and doing such tricks would react that way too.

 

[KillerClowns]

Why not limit puppets to 1st level spells?

Loki taking a city from another civ should also declare war immediately between that civ and the Balseraphs. I suppose any human who would see Loki incoming and doing such tricks would react that way too.

The first idea would be overkill. The point of puppets is to cast spells without risk, and to give Keelyn a distinct advantage over Perpentach despite her not starting with a Level 2 summon. There are no Level 1 spells I can think of that would benefit from being castable multiple times; there would be little, if any reason to bother with puppets.

The second idea is good, but a diplo penalty would be more appropriate, to prevent the computer being tricked into suicidal wars. For example, a Khazad AI who has been spared by the Balseraphs only because it has defense pacts would be better off losing the city then declaring war and getting eaten.

 

[OzzyKP]

Why are the golems overpowered and not the Firebow?

 

[Elm]

Im going to do some playtesting with the Luchuirp worldspell moved to masonry and puppets getting a penalty to casting (both to damage and resitance chances). The balseraphs are supposed to be the best dominators in the game (mind is their promary sphere after all), but it is to strong as is and we want to grant strategic options, not make them so lopsided that its a no brainer.

I think making city flipping cause -1 diplomacy per flip (you took my city) for Loki would be good, rather than instant war. But I think culture flipping in general should probably do the same. (you can always give the city back to get rid of the penalty). This would eliminate getting diplomacy benefits from repeatedly flipping, returning, flipping, and returning a city.

Puppets make the Balseraphs unique, and enjoyable to play. Making puppets weak (str 1 or 2, whether Hemmah, Loki, or mage, so they can be taken out easily -- after all, they are only puppets) would be good, though. And maybe making domination more likely to be resisted.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Why are the golems overpowered and not the Firebow?

Because the golems are available much, much earlier, even with the blasting workshop moved back to sorcery, and can actually fight as well as cast fireball, and can heal super-fast thanks to adepts, and belong to a civ that doesn't suck in every other area.