[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[Greywulf]

They might be able to depending on how global warming is implemented in the game. Imagine struggling to barely survive in the frozen north until you discover coal. Then you burn coal for breakfast until the rest of the world is a desert and you have the only temperate climate left on Earth.

I know it's stupid, but it would be fun.

I don't like this idea, and I think it would make the Inuit fairly unlikable. I was thinking that they survival in a natural way, with being experts at hunting and fishing in the frozen tundra. There have been a variety of ideas of how to do this effectively.

 

[Human Crouton]

I don't like this idea, and I think it would make the Inuit fairly unlikable. I was thinking that they survival in a natural way, with being experts at hunting and fishing in the frozen tundra. There have been a variety of ideas of how to do this effectively.

I think the Inuit should strive to destroy all life on the planet with their only goal to be the last to die.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[Greywulf]

I think the Inuit should strive to destroy all life on the planet with their only goal to be the last to die.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Lol, that doesn't fit well with Inuit culture, and it's a rather distasteful strategy.

 

[steveg700]

I like most everything about this--the mechanisms, the aesthetic, the Kupe of it all.

But man, I miss them Easter Island heads.

 

[DWilson]

I like most everything about this--the mechanisms, the aesthetic, the Kupe of it all.

But man, I miss them Easter Island heads.

They're still via Rapa Nui city state

 

[Greywulf]

I like most everything about this--the mechanisms, the aesthetic, the Kupe of it all.

But man, I miss them Easter Island heads.

Do you mean Moai statues? I kinda miss them too, even though it was implemented unrealistically.

 

[Siptah]

Do you mean Moai statues? I kinda miss them too, even though it was implemented unrealistically.

We haven‘t seen them yet, but do we know their abilities already? Maybe they are more realistic this time.

Edit: Nevermind, we know the stats already.

 

[Greywulf]

We haven‘t seen them yet, but do we know their abilities already? Maybe they are more realistic this time.

Edit: Nevermind, we know the stats already.

What are their stats? I must have missed that. I think having the Rapa Nui CS with the Moai statues makes sense, and more realistic than being able to build them along the coast in a sprawling Polynesian empire...was pretty fun though!

Edit: Found a link...http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Moai_(Civ6)

 

[Siptah]

What are their stats? I must have missed that. I think having the Rapa Nui CS with the Moai statues makes sense, and more realistic than being able to build them along the coast in a sprawling Polynesian empire...was pretty fun though!

Edit: Found a link...http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Moai_(Civ6)

Hmm.. Arioch states that they cannot be built next to forests or jungles. If this limitation is not in the game, they are super strong. But I guess the wiki just missed that part.

 

[Greywulf]

Hmm.. Arioch states that they cannot be built next to forests or jungles. If this limitation is not in the game, they are super strong. But I guess the wiki just missed that part.

Makes sense to me, as they did cut down every last tree on the island in the process of building the Moai statues. From what I see in the link, they have the potential to generate a lot of culture...three Moai statues in a row on volcanic soil that is adjacent to the coast would be amazing.

 

[Victoria]

I’m really not seeing Maori being a huge naval power,

So the thing is they can be.
Because they are already at Shipbuilding they can push Campus and then push frigates and get there before anyone else.
As well as that, getting the foreign trade inspiration means quick quads, and quick quads means any vulnerable city on the coast ( and maoris can check this fast) are dead.
Add to that the fact that early their speed on sea is 4... thats a 100% turn speed difference at sea.
Norway may possibly be able to beat you at sea but you can always get away and first attack flank with quad support.

 

[bite]

Hmm.. Arioch states that they cannot be built next to forests or jungles. If this limitation is not in the game, they are super strong. But I guess the wiki just missed that part.

That is correct

 

[acluewithout]

So the thing is they can be.
Because they are already at Shipbuilding they can push Campus and then push frigates and get there before anyone else.
As well as that, getting the foreign trade inspiration means quick quads, and quick quads means any vulnerable city on the coast ( and maoris can check this fast) are dead.
Add to that the fact that early their speed on sea is 4... thats a 100% turn speed difference at sea.
Norway may possibly be able to beat you at sea but you can always get away and first attack flank with quad support.

I forgot about Frigates. Okay ...so maybe now I’m maybe seeing Maori being a huge naval power. *inserts gift of face palm*

The extra level speed at sea looks like it only applies to embarked units, not their navy. But I guess that’ll help with mobilising the ground force.

 

[Victoria]

The extra level speed at sea looks like it only applies to embarked units, not their navy. But I guess that’ll help with mobilising the ground force.

This is the sad thing they missed... each of these embarked units counts as flanking and they can stack with naval units therefore doubling flanking possibilities at sea... with units that can sail the ocean with 4 MP from ther start.

 

[Greywulf]

This is the sad thing they missed... each of these embarked units counts as flanking and they can stack with naval units therefore doubling flanking possibilities at sea... with units that can sail the ocean with 4 MP from ther start.

Sounds like an effective strategy, if one wants to go for domination victory. Still leaves inland cities out of reach, but I'm curious to try this to see how they would go. Still, my main plan is to aim for a cultural victory, and to set up a good defence around my cities with those Pa. They also get a faith ability too, so religious victory is another option, if not just to use religion to boost in other ways. It's good to know that there are multiple strategies that would effectively work for them.

 

[Victoria]

my main plan is to aim for a cultural victory,

This would be mine also... all those small island seaside resort paridises.
With Maori it looks like you can just push science along the top tree of the tree to win a cuiltural.

 

[Guandao]

I love the Innu. Interesting culture and history. But in Civ, I'm not convinced. (Though they did probably wipe out the Dorset Culture.)
Actually, now I think about it again, it could work. But they are very dependent on fish and seals.

I want to point out that the Innu are a different people from the Inuit. Their language is Algonquian (closer to the Cree) as opposed to Eskimo-Aleut.

 

[Greywulf]

This would be mine also... all those small island seaside resort paridises.
With Maori it looks like you can just push science along the top tree of the tree to win a cuiltural.

I think I'll be playing a few games with the Maori, trying different things, before I try one of the other new civs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think I'll be playing a few games with the Maori, trying different things, before I try one of the other new civs.

Maori right now will be my second option. We will see what Phoenicia or the Inca bring to see if they will surpass them.

 

[acluewithout]

So the thing is they can be.
Because they are already at Shipbuilding they can push Campus and then push frigates and get there before anyone else.
As well as that, getting the foreign trade inspiration means quick quads, and quick quads means any vulnerable city on the coast ( and maoris can check this fast) are dead.
Add to that the fact that early their speed on sea is 4... thats a 100% turn speed difference at sea.
Norway may possibly be able to beat you at sea but you can always get away and first attack flank with quad support.

Sorry, but just thinking about this some more, I don’t think Frigates will be that easy to rush for Maori.

Getting two techs for free is a big leg up, I agree. But I think we know now that Frigates will require Niter. So, Kupe will need to research both Frigates (Square Rigging) and Niter (Military Engineering). To do that efficiently, there are also a lot of Eurekas they need to grab which can be a pain (eg build an aqueduct).

Don’t get me wrong, I think your basic point is right. I’m just saying the picture may be more complicated.

On the Harbour thing, when I said I’m glad you’re having success moving Harbours to Shipbuilding, that was meant genuinely. I think it’s a interesting idea, and I’m really interested to hear about your experiences doing that. I’m also very happy to hear you’re playing again and it’s good reading your posts again.

Overall, I do think Harbours are meant to come a bit later and be harder to access, and that this is the reason for their current placement and why coastal cities can spawn ships without a Harbour district (implying they have some sort of pseudo basic Low tech Harbour, and giving you a way to build ships before proper Harbours). I actually like that, and think it makes a more interesting decision overall, i.e. do I get Harbours and then build ships, or just pump out ships from coastal cities? (I’ve recently played a few games as Norway, and skipping Harbours for a while is really fun and flavourful.)

I think the real problem is that Campuses come way to early, are just way too powerful, and then you very quickly get to Commercial Hubs that are not all that different to Harbours when you consider only the district itself and it’s tier one building. Basically, I agree it’s very hard to get Harbours early, but my issue is it’s comparatively way, way too easy to get campuses and Commercial Hubs.

Moving Harbours to Shipbuilding is an elegant fix to the problem, by putting Harbours on the same footing as Commercial Hubs in terms accessibility. But I think a better solution would be to rework accessibility to Campuses and Commercial Hubs.

On England’s relative naval power v other Civs... yeah, I don’t know. On the one hand, I enjoy being challenged, so having other Civs that are punchy with Navy is fine for me. I mean, I love Rome, but I don’t play them because Legions are just too strong. I also like the Alt History angle, so I actually like that some Civs that are not Naval actually can be dangerous as sea because of general powers, eg Sythia, or Zulu. ...But ...on the other hand, there’s a difference between challenge, and England just being lame...

I don’t have a good sense how strong England will be in GS. Just like Batman’s super power is “I’m rich”, England’s super power for Naval appears to just “More” - More Navy via Sea Dogs and Pax B, More Ironclads specifically via resource bonuses for Iron and Coals, More movement via RNDs (although that’s bugged), More Harbours generally, More Great Admirals, and then more gold and hammers generally to make more and more Navy (although all very late game). Is “More” as strong as everyone else’s powers...? Yeah, I really don’t know. But might still be fun.

Final thoughts. First, I think England is still weaker than it was in Vanilla - losing free Melee units on conquest and British Museum are big. I’m okay with that though - my only concern is that England are fun, and England do look fun.

Second, FXS really need to fix the movement bug for England. Sheesh.

Third, I wonder if England should get the ability to complete districts with ME charges? That would be very cool.

Fourth, I hope MEs don’t need to spend charges to build railways.

Fifth, apologies to everyone who is sick of talking about England, or with me talking about England specifically, or came to this thread expecting to read about Maori and not England, Harbours and Frigates (... and apologies to Victoria who I appreciate may be entirely done with this topic...). I guess I just needed to get some thoughts out of my head...

[edit: added additional points after para 2 (I think).]