This is precisely why I'd like to see the Inuit in the game, as they would be a guaranteed niche civ ~ one of the most niche civ ideas yet. Niche civs, such as the Maori, are likely to be the most interesting civs to play as, giving the player a unique experience that no other civ will give them...and as we can see, they really get the civ community talking. So I'm a big fan of niche civ ideas. I hope to see more niche civs introduced in the future.
[GS] Māori Discussion Thread
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Harlequeen
Chieftain
I love the Innu. Interesting culture and history. But in Civ, I'm not convinced. (Though they did probably wipe out the Dorset Culture.)
Actually, now I think about it again, it could work. But they are very dependent on fish and seals.
They also outlasted the Vikings during the Little Ice Age, independently invented crossbows, kept half-wild wolf-dogs as domestic pets, occupied an enormous region that is hostile to live in, and have their own version of sunglasses made of bone...They're pretty cool.
The fact that they are so dependent on fish and seals is a big part of what makes them so niche. We could use a civ that not only can settle on tundra, but also thrives on it, and has unique abilities related to that, and the Inuit are ideal for this.
This way we will have an ocean civ and a tundra civ.
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
I suppose the thing with the Inuit is they are really good at surviving in an extreme environment where other peoples would struggle. But surviving and thriving are not the same thing, and in order to win at Civ, you really want your Civ to thrive.
I like niche civs from a gameplay point of view - but regarding gameplay, you could make niche civs out of most civs we have already. It‘s a bit puzzling why Firaxis does never do it with the mainstays - maybe they lack the courage to try this things in vanilla?
It would be entirely possible to create an American civ that absolutely sucks until the industrial era and is incredible at catching up with everything as soon as you reach the modern era.
They could have exaggerated the next to river bonuses of Egypt and in turn made Tundra, jungle and snow useless for them (and units lose health there).
Scythia and Mongolia have had more nomadic starts as well and very different gameplay afterwards.
Spain’s rapid Empire and governorate forming could have lend the historical background for a civ that can found vassal colonial nations on foreign continents with massive boosts to the home continent, where cities are limited.
Greece could have been portrayed as a league of city states rather than a unified empire, especially with loyalty being a thing in R&F, where you might not have full control over every city at all time, but get bonuses in your true capital.
And so on and so on...
Ok, not all of those suggestions are niche when it comes to terrain, but when it comes to gameplay mechanics used. I‘m still puzzled why Firaxis needs newcomers for these things... not that I dislike new civs.
Agreed. They would have to make them be able to thrive.
So true, there's a fair amount of room to do this sort of thing with pre-existing civs, so I guess they are missed opportunities in that regard. Still, it is fantastic to see them adding a truly unique niche civ in this expansion, and that gives me real hope that they'll do some more later.
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The only reason the Polynesians 'explore' was because their population get too big for the food source. Kill or leave.
New Zealand was big enough not to leave.
You could only consider them better explorers than their Maori children because the Maori's no longer lived on tiny islands and sailed a lot to survive and trade.
Well yes, its the priorities at work there... just like a barb scout is very unlikely to take a settler or a worker, but sometimes happens. (especially if you have killed their camp)
And thats the point, new warrior... no priority to stay in camp, nothing else close enough, even then it was likely a 50/50 decision. I wish taken settlers could make another camp.
Moas were long gone, jade and feathers were key trade items yes. Working Jade (greenstone) is not a quick or simple thing.
Moa would have still been there when Kupe (if he existed) was around, since it was the Māori who hunted them all in the first place! Perhaps their extinction was abetted in the form of omelettes served to foreign delegates?
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.... there were some unsubstantiated sightings in the 18th and 19th centuries but no servings.
https://activeadventures.com/new-zealand/about/nature/birds-of-new-zealand/moa
acluewithout
Deity
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What does Maori’s +5 CS for embarked units mean?
Does it just mean their land units at sea are harder to kill?
I’m just wondering if they’re actually going to all that powerful as a Naval civ. They can build ships earlier, but I think their bonuses are just for embarked units, not actual Naval units. They have the same Navy as everyone else, just maybe earlier.
Does it just mean their land units at sea are harder to kill?
I’m just wondering if they’re actually going to all that powerful as a Naval civ. They can build ships earlier, but I think their bonuses are just for embarked units, not actual Naval units. They have the same Navy as everyone else, just maybe earlier.
I see it as an exploration and coastal civ, not a naval civ.
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All embarked units get an era strength at sea. Every nation is the same. They are saying maori embarked units can defend themselves at sea better... or more likely an early barb galley does less damage so they can survive and outrun them.
Embarked Strengths
Ancient = 10
Classic = 15
Medieval = 15
Renaissance = 30
Industrial = 35
Modern = 50
Atomic = 55
Information = 55
Ship Strengths as a comparison
Galley/Quad = 25
Longship = 30
caravel = 50
ironclad = 60
Destroyer = 80
So ships start as +10 vs embarked and get to +25
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It's not that unusual for people to be reporting sightings of extinct animals, as people who are aware of the animal might see something else and mistaken it for the extinct animal...this has happened for a variety of extinct animals. There could also be the possibility that a few of the animal is still around, but not enough to repopulate, so they are just taking a bit longer to die off.
New Zealand is the right kind of environment to give hope that an extinct animal is still around, as it has a lot of wilderness and difficult terrain, so people could assume that somewhere out there, hiding from view, are small pockets of moa, or perhaps even their giant eagle that also became extinct. The thing is though, animals tend to repopulate when they are given a chance to, unless there isn't enough of them left to do that of course.
This is the sad situation of the Northern White Rhino, which from last I heard have only two left...an elderly female, and a sterile young female. They are effectively extinct already, but now is your last chance to see one alive, as they live out their last days in comfort, in the security of zoos.
Anyway, I digress, as moa and giant eagles are not featured in the game, despite the addition of the Maori.
In that case I nominate the Holy Roman Empire to come back. Later in the game it can break up into France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Poland, Prussia etc. and you get to choose which one to rule.
acluewithout
Deity
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Yes, that’s how I read it too.
I’m really not seeing Maori being a huge naval power, or being much competition for Norway. I think Norway may actually be better at exploration too - their Longboat comes early, and they can pop goody huts without going on land.
Two free techs is pretty big though, although Shipbuilding is not such a big deal because you get its Eureka so easily. I dunno. Maori look fun, but can’t see them being really powerful except if they get some crazy RNG (e.g. Natural wonder).
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God of Kings
Ruler of all heads of state
The Maori never met with the Australian Aborigines until Europeans brought some of the Maori to meet the Australian Aborigines.
What is your point with this?
God of Kings
Ruler of all heads of state
The point is that since resources are so plentiful in New Zealand, the Maori didn't need to travel further west.
Human Crouton
Prince
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They might be able to depending on how global warming is implemented in the game. Imagine struggling to barely survive in the frozen north until you discover coal. Then you burn coal for breakfast until the rest of the world is a desert and you have the only temperate climate left on Earth.
I know it's stupid, but it would be fun.
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They haven't really said anything about land tiles turning into other kinds of land tiles. It would be cool if plains turned into desert and tundra into grasslands as global climate change gets worse.
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