MadV4- Sumerian OCC 20K

Size: Standard
Barbarians: Roaming
Landmass: Random (Pangaea, 60%)
CTA: Normal, Temperate, 4 Billion

The second start gave a nice inland location, so I did 'Play Last World' to find the actual landmass settings, then saved. I tried for nearly 20 minutes to get a nice coastal site, but it just wasn't happening.

3500 BC: Our borders expand and we get barbs from a hut. We also see a Hittite scout. I sell BW for 10 gold while I can. A turn later, the barbs promote one of our Enkidu.

3350 BC: We get a settler from a hut. :cool:

3050 BC: We get Warrior Code from a hut. Of course, the Hittites already had it.

Tech plan: Beeline Polytheism, trade for Alphabet and research to Philosophy for Monarchy, then get Literature.
 
Ye of little faith. We will NOT be backwards in tech, at least not for long. Also, the AI is very poor at building wonders. Our city, at size 12 and out of despotism, can pump 25 shields per turn and build anything we want.
 
My comments on the starts posted:

madviking: No save, so I cannot closely examine our city. Looks like max production might be only 19 shields, which isn't good. Colossus means more commerce, but no river means less commerce, so these balance out. Sedentary barbs gives huts to the AI, but we aren't likely to hit many of them ourselves. No camps means no additional gold in the ancient times.

MjM: Max production of 22 shields is nice. Colossus, but no river. No huts, no camps - see above.

CVH: Max production of 25 shields is excellent. River gives bonus to 10 tiles, including center tile, but no Colossus. Wines on grass are very good for early growth: irrigate them! Roaming barbs is my preferred setting. We'll get more gold from the AI so we can keep science up, and we'll hit a few camps ourselves. Also potential benefits from goody huts as we search for our rivals.

Mathias: Max production of 25 shields is excellent. River gives bonus to 15 tiles, of which we would use 9 at size 12, but no Colossus. Settler added two free population. Roaming barbs - see above.

After Methos posts, I'll count total base commerce as well. I'll need a save from madviking for that.
 
Okay, here's my option. I did manage to get a coastal city with a river after several bad starts. Didn't settle until 3900 BC and met Arabia in 3000 BC. BTW, they have CB. Not too big on my start as there are no hills or mountains within our 21 tile box.

Either way, here's the save and below is what she looks like.

Edit:Forgot to add world settings:

World Size: Standard
Barbs: None
Climate: Normal
Temp: Temperate
Age: 4 billion

I also went with no barbs since they would benefit the AI's more than us. In my option I went straight for Alphabet at 100% and after 20 turns I still have two turns until it's complete. I built 3 enks and than began a granary.

 
The more I look at my save the more I don't like it. Unless I counted wrong I count only 15 shields before RR. That sucks! The river and coast is great but I don't believe it's worth the low production. Sorry guys, I should have passed that one up and kept looking.
 
OK, here's what I have counted:

madviking: 24 food, 18 shields (assuming 2 BGs), 34 M or 47 R commerce

MjM: 24 food, 22 shields, 29 M or 42 R commerce

CoolioVonHoolio: 24 food, 25 shields, 27 M or 40 R commerce

Mathias: 24 food, 25 shields, 27 M or 40 R commerce

Methos: 25 food, 20 shields, 36 M or 49 R commerce

Numbers for base commerce shown for both monarchy and republic, and include bonus from the Colossus for those cities that can build it.

I would like to stress the importance of fast growth. The sooner our city is at size 12 and fully improved, the better. MjM, CVH, and Methos each have the potential for +5 food per turn, yet none of them are growing nearly that fast.
 
First of all , we want coastal cities for contacts , imagine knowing only 1 AI till Communications trading. That elminates CVH and Mathias.

Madvikings start is under 20 sheilds, and thats awfully low , so thats elminated.

Mine and Methos are the only ones left. Methos has a neighbor nearby , and hasnt started on colossus. But that gold is very nice. Also nice flat land , but no hills means less sheilds.

Mine has freshwater and coastal and has started on colossus , but with only 1 unit till collosuss finishes , an AI might pick us off. My start also has the hills which is 3+ sheilds but slow growth.

I just dont know :crazyeye:
 
We don't need coastal for contacts when the map is pangaea with 60% water coverage, so don't be so quick to eliminate mine. CVH's is arch, and he started with completely wrong tech choice, so I agree on not playing his. I also agree on not playing madviking's start, as it has nothing going for it.

MjM start is good, but needs to build granary instead of Colossus, and not work the forest tiles for as long as we can have +5 food per turn.

Methos start is decent. Need to irrigate that wheat asap for +5 fpt. The high commerce will get us through the techs quicker, but the low production means it will take longer to build the wonders. This site would be better for space race.

Mine is good. With 25 shields per turn, we'll have every midddle-age wonder completed in 3 or 4 fewer turns, compared to MjM 22 spt. The only drawback is the lack of food bonus for fast growth. Contacts shouldn't be a problem. I think this has the potential to hit 20K the earliest.

I don't want to give a wrong impression here, but I've played more OCC games than the rest of you combined, so I think my experience with this variant should count for something.

For me, it's really a toss-up between my start and MjM's start.
 
0- looks good
2- gran -> bar,
3- switch bar to Oracle
4- meet Arabs, up Masonry
10- lux up to 30%, sci down to 60%
12- pop some barbs far away
15-sci up to 70%
20- pop more barbs N of Hittites

Oracle due in 12.

I think we need more workers, even it takes up money, we need more $$$ in our account (9 and -1)

Arabs and Hittites both have IW and Masonry, Hittites ahve Alpha and Arabs have The Wheel
 
0 - Growth is far more important than production. Faster growth = more citizens = more production. Set up citizens for +2 food this turn, and +3 for the next 5, for growth in 6 turns.
4 - Meet Egypt. They have Masonry and The Wheel, lacking Pottery, Warrior Code, and Mysticism.
Trade Pottery and Mysticism for Masonry, The Wheel, and 10 gold. Hittites already have The Wheel now, so no trade there.
6 - Growth. Lux 40%, Sci 60%
9 - Disperse barbarian encampment, collect 25 gold.
13 - Growth. Oracle complete, build Worker. Science down for Polytheism this turn.
14 - Polytheism in, choose Alphabet for now.
Worker complete, build Enkidu because a barbarian is at our SE border.
Polytheism gets Alphabet, Horseback Riding, and 21 gold from Arabia.
The same gets Iron Working from the Hittites.
Arabia has Writing.
Research Writing, due in 17 turns at 70%
15 - Enkidu complete, build Worker. Kill the nearby barbarian.
16 - Worker complete, build Archer.
18 - Archer complete, build Temple.
Meet Japan. They are backward. Sell Pottery for 10 gold.
19 - Arabia demands 21 gold. I give in without thought. War happiness would have been nice, and they may be too far away to pose a serious threat, but avoiding war is probably best anyway.
20 - Growth. Goody hut gives 50 gold, nice!

Notes:
Archer is hunting for the nearby Bantu tribe encampment.
Mines will be complete in 1 and 3 turns, so our Temple will be complete in 3 turns without using the forest.
Writing due in 10 turns. We have road done this turn, so we'll actually get it in 9. After that, we should be able to get Philosophy in 11 or 12 turns, grabbing Monarchy for free.
I recommend building at least one, maybe two more archers after temple, before starting next wonder which should be Mausoleum or Gardens. Both together will trigger our Golden Age.

Have at it, MjM
 
Preturn: Everything is nice...

Turn 1: Not much

Turn 3: We finally finish the temple.

Turn 5: Finish Archer , set ToA as prebuild for Masuleum (sp)

Turn 7: we raid an Avar encampment , we really need that gold.

Turn 8: We discover writing , at 60% science we get it in 14 turns at -5 gpt. Unless we find some huts real soon , we will be bankrupt.

Turn 12: We see a goodie hut and grab it for 50 gold. :D

Turn 14: We meet the Germans who are backward , down Alpha and Polytheism , they only have 28 gold , and neither tech is that cheap.

IT: the people love us , i put some grass on our palace.

Turn 16: We have a barbarian camp in our sites , but it has 2 warriors , so it will take a while too hack away. Our Enkidu looses one hp and kills one barb.

Turn 17: We dispersed of the barbs and get more gold which helps eleviate our treasury further.

Turn 19: We take down Another barb camp , which puts us at 102 gp.

IT: We learn Philosphy , and we choose Monarchy as our free tech. Set reaserch towards Lit.

Turn 20: Dammit , we prebuilt a little too long and wasted 18 sheilds , but we can get the Masouleum next turn , so we do it.

Lit will come in 19 turns and we are running at -5gpt. Masoleum will be built next turn. I saw some barbs in the southeast , but the camp we killed over their may have been theirs. I dont know.
 
Oops, that pink border was France, and not Arabia? :lol:

MjM said:
Turn 14: We meet the Germans who are backward , down Alpha and Polytheism , they only have 28 gold , and neither tech is that cheap.
Click to expand...
In this case, Alphabet would be that cheap. We need every bit of gold we can get our hands on. If we don't sell, they will get it on their own, and then we would have to sell a higher tech for that gold, provided they still have it. Germany now has 34 gold, and Egypt has 25. We should sell Alphabet to both of them.

Next turn, after MoM is complete, we need to revolt. Also, we should keep science as high as possible as long as we have any gold in treasury.
 
madviking said:
CVH- its not coastal, so no Colossus... :(
Click to expand...
lurker's comment: Sorry to crash in this late, but his was the only one in whose I saw hills/mountains, which will be crucial later on for IA production. If you rematch this, I'd suggest taking CVH's.
 
CVH's start is non-coastal on an archipelago with 70% water. It is possible that we'd meet only one rival civ on our landmass. The start we are playing has 5 hills.
 
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