Mafia/NOTW Statistics

[Takhisis]

Count it as Cult Victory then.

 

[landlubber]

No. It was never a Cult win to begin with. Civplayah won as a Serial Killer, and only him. Say "Mafia Victory," but don't count anyone as winning besides Double A, a joker, and civplayah.

 

[Takhisis]

Then it's Serial Killer victory.

 

[landlubber]

We have a category for that? Alright then.

 

[choxorn]

Serial Killers aren't Neutral?

And it's not for who won, it's for the player statistics- I need to know whether to count link, mgs, and wideyed as neutral or mafia or what.

 

[landlubber]

Serial Killers aren't Neutral?

And it's not for who won, it's for the player statistics- I need to know whether to count link, mgs, and wideyed as neutral or mafia or what.

I say mafia. And, no, I've never considered SKs neutral, because they oppose EVERYONE.

 

[civplayah]

I've always considered SKs neutral. Just... aggressively neutral.

We don't have a category for cults/masons? If not, count them as neutral, imo.

 

[choxorn]

Masons are 100% Townie, we don't need a seperate category for them.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Serial Killers should be in a separate category.

They should be combined with Mafia if not. They're not neutral; neutrals can win with town or mafia, serial killers typically cannot and have a much more difficult win condition.

 

[Romanichine]

Someone is neutral if he's not knowingly working with teammates, or if his goal is not Anti-Town or Anti-Mafia.

SK - working alone, clearly Neutral.
Cult members - Working as a team against the Town, they are to be considered Mafia.
Money related role - Example, my thief role in Zack Star Wars, or Niklas/Jabba. They are neutral as their goal doesn't go against the Town or the Mafia (even if Jabba did have a mason iirc).

Some roles are hard to classify, use judgment - but a serial killer is clearly neutra. If you consider SK to be Mafia, I wonder what's left for the Neutral category, as the SK is the typical neutral role, imo.

 

[Romanichine]

Serial Killers should be in a separate category.

They should be combined with Mafia if not. They're not neutral; neutrals can win with town or mafia, serial killers typically cannot and have a much more difficult win condition.

Sure we can fit SK in a different category, but if we're to classify SK as Town, Neutral or Mafia, they are clearly neutral. At least this is how I work with the ORG stats.

 

[Romanichine]

Also, excuse my 3rd post, but if you are going to have a separate category for Cult, SK, masons.... then you might as well go for Cop, Doctor and some other common role. While you're at it, why not split the Mafia into 'Vanilla Mafia', 'Mafia Godfather', Mafia this, Mafia that, you'll never end.

Splitting roles into three categories is simple, I think it works, though some roles are indeed hard to categorize. The goal is simply to have an idea how players performs with different roles (Mafia/Neutral/Town), but you really don't need to be specific. Three categories is just fine, and the real statistic, the one that really counts, is how many games you won/lost overall (all roles included).

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I just feel that the only difference between a SK and a mafia family is that they're alone, otherwise they share all characteristics.

As such, of the three categories, they mostly resemble mafia.

Compare to a neutral who is by themselves. Typically has no murder power, wins with town or mafia. Not even similar.

 

[choxorn]

Normally, this would be easy, only they're a cult, meaning they're anti-town, but they also have the victory condition "outnumber the killers," and it's unclear what other victory conditions it's compatible with.

They're both anti-townie, anti-neutral, and anti-mafia, all at the same time.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cults are simply "mafia" that can recruit. They're non-neutral.

Like mafia families, they are rivals with other mafias. They're not a separate category because of that.

They're anti-everyone else, making them scum by default. Neutrals and other factions can co-exist, clearly making them different from scum. Mafia, SK, cults are all considered scum. SK I think should get its own category, because they have such an abysmal win rate and very different challenges. They're essentially roles that must survive and must also be the last one standing. That's not true of scum. Different ball of wax.

 

[Jarrema]

I think that all 'anti-town' should be categorized as mafia, so SK an cult also.
Neutrals are those who can win with either side - for example survivors.

But I understand also logis of Roman distinction: neutrals are always alone. I just do not like it

 

[Romanichine]

I guess my definition of neutral can be summed as "third party".

 

[choxorn]

Yeah, that's what I've been going by, too. I'll still call the second mafia faction mafia, or similar things mafia, but the serial killer and the team of neutral survivalists are neutrals, simply because they don't fit as either a town or a mafia.

 

[remake20]

I've reached "Who wants to be a mafiaionare?" and I have no freakin idea what I'm supposed to count the cult in that game as.

My attempts to figure this out have also shown me that Earthling was lynched as mafia in this game, despite his claim to the contrary in NOTW 38.

The cult was, uh... and independent faction. I don't have my notes anymore, but IIRC they were also anti-town.

 

[Takhisis]

To me, cult is simply a subset of mafia. Sometimes they can both convert and kill, sometimes they can only kill, sometimes they can only convert.