Mafia/NOTW Statistics

Wait gah sorry right. Takhisis = SK, Legato = Cult.

I don't see why Cults are closer to mafias than SKs are though.

Cults win by conversion. SKs and mafias win by killing their enemies. SKs are just mafia teams of 1, while cults operate on completely different mechanics (leader and vanilla cultists)
 
I'm always the mafia.
 
Wait gah sorry right. Takhisis = SK, Legato = Cult.

I don't see why Cults are closer to mafias than SKs are though.

Cults win by conversion. SKs and mafias win by killing their enemies. SKs are just mafia teams of 1, while cults operate on completely different mechanics (leader and vanilla cultists)

SK's may be teams of 1, but players working on their own are always neutral, regardless of what their goal is. Cults do win by conversion, yes, but they're a team that's anti-townie and generally anti-any-faction-but-them, which pretty clearly makes them a "mafia" alignment. Neutral teams generally have to have victory conditions that aren't "kill/outnumber everyone else"
 
SK is SK, Mafia is Mafia, Cult is Cult. You can lump them all as anti-town roles, but they aren't the same.
 
I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying I have only 3 choices for alignment and I have to stick everyone in one of those three, damn it. :p
 
I just noticed there are no Win as neutrsl stats, are there?
 
SK's may be teams of 1, but players working on their own are always neutral, regardless of what their goal is. Cults do win by conversion, yes, but they're a team that's anti-townie and generally anti-any-faction-but-them, which pretty clearly makes them a "mafia" alignment. Neutral teams generally have to have victory conditions that aren't "kill/outnumber everyone else"

Well the goal of SKs is to "kill/outnumber everyone else" by definition. I still feel like cults are different enough that they cannot count as mafias for purely mechanical reasons.
 
I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying I have only 3 choices for alignment and I have to stick everyone in one of those three, damn it. :p
Why not use well-thought-out categories instead?
 
Well the goal of SKs is to "kill/outnumber everyone else" by definition. I still feel like cults are different enough that they cannot count as mafias for purely mechanical reasons.
Cults vary wildly in how they're designed, and you're insisting they should always count as neutral based on a particular implementation. They're an anti-town faction that generally takes the place of a second mafia team.

You said an SK is a mafia team of 1. A cult is a mafia team that starts with 1.
 
A cult converts, a mafia team kills. Obviously, some like in NSP I or Hymn of Hot and Cold blur those distinctions, but even then, a cult's primary way to win is by converting, wheareas a mafia's primary way to win is by killing.
 
I'm guessing choxorns system is

town (obvious)
mafia (main bad guys)
neutral (minor bad guys)

with some exceptions of course
 
Why not use well-thought-out categories instead?

I copied Romanic's stats when I copied his idea. Blame him. :p

The system is generally:

Town: Obvious, like Visorslash said, although there's some occasional weirdness. Generally, they're the uninformed majority, the faction that most people in the game are. They don't know who the other townies are (except maybe a mason partner or two), they don't have any kind of team abilities, and their goal is to eliminate all threats- Mafia, Serial Killers, Cults, or otherwise. Most of the time, all townies have the same VC, and either all of them win or all of them lose (or, every once in a while, all of them draw), though there may be a few rare exceptions, particularly in some of the stranger and more complex NOTW's.

Mafia: The guys trying to kill the town, and more generally, everyone that isn't them. Can be a standard mafia faction, or can be a cult or some other unusual anti-town faction like some of the NOTW's have. Usually have a VC of outnumbering or outstrengthing everyone that isn't part of their faction, or something like that. There's a few mafia factions, mostly from NOTW's, with different victory conditions (like the Saboteurs in Impending Retribution, who had a goal of destroying the ship). Basically, the big thing that makes Mafia teams different from Neutral teams is that Mafia Teams almost always have VC's directly opposed to the Town's VC, and also usually directly opposed to other Mafia teams' VC's if there's more than one. There's some neutrals they can win with (like Survivalists, for instance), but there's also plenty they can't win with.

They must be part of a team, not a solo player- that's why Serial Killer-type roles aren't mafia, but cults are (even if they only start with one player, they can make themselves bigger).

Neutral: Solo players, like SK's, Survivalists, and Jesters, are always neutral. Some teams are also neutral, if they have some kind of team VC that's entirely or mostly irrelevant to the Town vs. Mafia battle- something like the Llamas and Moose in ATPG's Holy Grail Mafia, two neutral factions who cared only about outliving the other faction, with all other factions irrelevant. Generally, they have victory conditions that are distinct from the town's, but not opposed to them, and usually not opposed to the mafia's, though there are a few weird neutral groups that can win with the town but not the mafia, but have different VC's than what the town have and don't necessarily win just because the town won.

Unlike the other two groups, Neutral individuals and teams can, in certain cases, win the game even if they and their entire team are dead (and, in the case of Jesters, that's usually the ONLY way they can win), whereas Town and Mafia groups almost always can't do better than a draw without at least one surviving member, and complete elimination is usually a loss for them. Even for Neutrals, winning in a case like that is pretty rare.
 
Town are informed????
 
Uninformed. I meant uninformed. Herpaderp.
 
Well... I've fallen pretty far behind on this, haven't I?

Looking through some of the games that have been played over the past few months, I wondered why a bunch of them I wasn't remembering very well. Then I realized that I seemed to have taken up a habit of dying by night 2 every other game and that tends to make me forget them more easily. Y'all need to stop killing me so fast. :(
 
Have you past the 100 games mark now then Chox?
 
At the moment, the stats have me at 93. By my count, there's 7 games I haven't entered into the database (well, 8, but NSP 3 doesn't count for the same reason that NSP 1 didn't count), but I didn't play in all of them. So no, I haven't hit 100 quite yet.
 
NOTW LV: The Underground:

Town: 17 (choxorn, Sprig, Visorslash, Zack, Snerk, BSmith1068, bladescape, Winston Hughes, Riedquat, spaceman98, Takhisis, landlubber, classical hero, EQandCivfanatic, robbiecon, KingMorgan, Legato Endless)

Mafia: 6 (Kennigit, Backwards Logic, TheForestAuro, Double A, Jarrema, johnhughthom)

Won: 3 (Kennigit, Backwards Logic, Double A)

Lost: 18 (choxorn, Sprig, Visorslash, Zack, Snerk, BSmith1068, bladescape, Winston Hughes, Riedquat, spaceman98, Takhisis, landlubber, classical hero, robbiecon, KingMorgan, Legato Endless, Jarrema, johnhughthom)

Survived: 3 (Visorslash, Zack, Backwards Logic)

Replaced: 2 (TheForestAuro, EQandCivfanatic)
 
High Society:

Town: 12 (Zack, MartinLuther, KingMorgan, robbiecon, landlubber, johnhughthom, Takhisis, Askthepizzaguy, Snerk, Autolycus, choxorn, BSmith1068)

Mafia: 3 (Visorslash, Backwards Logic, classical hero)

Won: 3 (Visorslash, Backwards Logic, classical hero)

Lost: 12 (Zack, MartinLuther, KingMorgan, robbiecon, landlubber, johnhughthom, Takhisis, Askthepizzaguy, Snerk, Autolycus, choxorn, BSmith1068)

Survived: 6 (Visorslash, Backwards Logic, classical hero, johnhughthom, Snerk, BSmith1068)
 
Red Dwarf Mafia:

Town: 23 (choxorn, BSmith1068, Takhisis, Double A, landlubber, Legato Endless, johnhughthom, robbiecon, Arakhor, Snerk, Kennigit, Backwards Logic, MartinLuther, bladescape, Xym, Zack, Newyn, Al Sipsclar, Murska, KingMorgan, remake20, SamSniped, Majiffy)

Mafia: 8 (Luizeu, Cuthilius, Sprig, spaceman98, Autolycus, Internet Flea, Pouter Pigeon, Winston Hughes)

Neutral/Other: 1 (Jarrema)

Won: 22 (choxorn, BSmith1068, Takhisis, Double A, landlubber, Legato Endless, johnhughthom, robbiecon, Arakhor, Snerk, Kennigit, Backwards Logic, MartinLuther, bladescape, Xym, Zack, Newyn, Al Sipsclar, Murska, KingMorgan, remake20, Jarrema)

Lost: 8 (Luizeu, Cuthilius, Sprig, spaceman98, Autolycus, Internet Flea, Pouter Pigeon, Winston Hughes)

Survived: 6 (choxorn, BSmith1068, Takhisis, Double A, landlubber, Jarrema)

Replaced: 2 (SamSniped, Majiffy)
 
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