1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,018
    Location:
    Ping Island
    They're finally drawing more lessons from Endless Legend than simply adding districts. Finally leaning into the asymmetrical gameplay with this release. This is way more exciting than R&F. Why'd they even make that expansion again?
     
  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    4,223
    again, your gold is your production.
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,170
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    How can you get the faith to buy market:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:

    Option1: Settle in desert so that you get faith from UA, therefore you get 0 production and cannot finish CH.

    Option2: Build Holy Site, Shrine and Temples, but Shrines and Temples are 42% more expensive.
     
  4. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Well since Mali does get a lot of gold from mines, Mali could focus some trade routes on internal trades to counter production loss for wonders to a degree.
     
  5. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,930
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    settle in or near desert.

    Obviously this makes them ill suited for religious victory. The video says they are good for all victory types, but I think you'll want to use your faith for other things.
     
  6. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    486
    because POLDERS

    As to Mali, I guess they're the CiV Venice of this game? Should be interesting to play, although I'm a bit dubious about their usefulness. I'll have to look at some of the numbers, but I doubt you'll have enough money to buy enough units to defend yourself on high difficulties that make up for the lowered production, as everything costs a ton of money in this game. So far, this is probably going to be the second civ I try, after the Inca
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  7. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,736
    Hey. If they have a desert start bias (and why wouldn't they), getting as much as 6 Faith per turn right off the bat is going to give Mali first choice of pantheons. No one else will be getting Desert Folklore.
     
  8. Leathaface

    Leathaface Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,402
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Also spaceship parts. Though Mali will 100% of the time be able to purchase the Spaceport with ease.

    Yup, quarries will be a much sought after commodity when playing as Mali outside of the desert biome.
     
  9. Temppu

    Temppu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Gender:
    Male
    I can see its fun as Mali for role playing purposes to spam 4 pop cities surrounded by 6 desert tiles with just the Mali CH and Holy Site (purchased by Reyna), only working those +4 Gold mines. Hard to see this as an efficient strategy, though, because the lack of Science and Culture will kill them.
     
  10. Amrunril

    Amrunril Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,008
    Gold based economy aside, the civ ability is potentially a massive boost in the early game/to new cities. Mali will often join Indonesia in getting faith from turn one but can get up to +6 instead of +2. This means a probable first pantheon and enough faith to be a major factor in great person races (or to make good use of bonuses like Valetta or the age bonus that allows civilian unit purchases, or to save up for Jesuit Education or Grandmaster's Chapel). The food will make for rapid growth to medium size cities and make it much easier to work non food tiles (mines on desert hills, for instance).
     
    Siptah likes this.
  11. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    486
    I might argue for god of craftsmen if you have a fair amount of iron, although you may be likely to get your pantheon before you can detect iron...
    I wonder if Mali will have a bias toward mineable resources? It would make sense, but we already have one north african mining desert focused civ...
     
  12. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Alright, I’ll keep it real with you chiefs—I think this Civ is probably going to be bad. The production maluses are going to set you so far back in the early game that it doesn’t matter how much stuff you can buy once you get that unique commercial hub up.
    If you get rolling, then yeah, this Civ could be very strong in a unique way, but I think this is easily the worst of the revealed Civs thus far. A little disappointed because they’re a cool design, but I think the cons of the Civ make them not really work.
    Maori > Hungary > Inca > Canada > Mali
     
    Tiger Genocide likes this.
  13. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Messages:
    4,471
    Location:
    Lucerne
    Which is also a tiny science/culture boost. However, you won't be putting too many cities in locations with large amount of desert, as such places aren't occurring that often and you still want to place cities to get luxuries or in strategic positions. So the ability will mostly benefit the capital and 2-3 other cities.

    But it seems to be more fun (at least for me personally) ;-) If the AI is willing to trade you favors for all your gold, I can see this civ winning a DipV even when behind in development by far.
     
  14. Deggial

    Deggial Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Location:
    Germany
    Yep, I do understand this.
    However, gold doesn't buy wonders.

    (But admittedly, it buys workers and they can chop forests or harvest ressources. But this has downsides and at least forests are not known to grow on desert tiles - which is, where you want 'Petra'.)
     
    SammyKhalifa likes this.
  15. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,044
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    They are bad for scientific victory as well, because the penalty from mines also applies to projects and wonders, unlike the 30% generic production penalty. You can't pray your way into space.

    They only victory type I can see Mali excel at is domination, because they can field and maintain massive armies.
     
  16. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Netherlands
    The adjecency bonus is only to flat desert and desert hills, not oasis or floodplains. So a start with +6 faith will probably be a bad one. (Incorrect assumption). But even with +2 or +3 they will easily found a pantheon as first or second.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  17. Sagax

    Sagax Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    -30% production hurts... especially in the early game. All the gold bonuses need time to kick in and really matter - you won’t be able to buy everything you want in the Ancient-Classical eras.

    I think we need to play the game to get an idea of how well the gold bonuses offset the production malus. But IMO one thing is certain: you do NOT want to get invaded early as Mali. While your gold churner is not yet developed in the first dozens of turns, it means that you have to deal with:

    Delayed scouts
    Delayed archers
    Delayed builders
    Delayed monuments and granaries
    Delayed first trade route

    But once you get out of the early game hell, I’m pretty sure you’ll be balling out of control. Casual players will love it, while Deity speed-runners will walk away in disbelief that FXS could conceive such an “abomination”. I, for one, look forward to rolling in cash.

    Mali gameplay in a nutshell:
     
    Cooleatack, Hawke9, Meluhhan and 10 others like this.
  18. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Messages:
    4,471
    Location:
    Lucerne
    Floodplains and oasis are still desert tiles.
     
  19. Human Crouton

    Human Crouton Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    403
    I mostly agree. I think it all depends on start position though. If you get two good desert cities to start with, you can build up your advantage pretty well. But you have to survive the early onslaught of enemy units to set that up. I don't think Mali will be founding any religions with its early game dedicated to survival.

    Problem is that the AI will be terrible at this Civ; and in multiplayer, your opponents will know that you have a 30% hit to early unit production. Mali will likely be eaten alive in MP.
     
    Jewelrunna, Hawke9 and Siptah like this.
  20. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,572
    It’s an interesting idea. And I like that FXS are adding these “unique mechanics but nasty malus” Civs. Probably the right time to be introducing these to the game.

    But, yeah. Not a huge fan.

    Basically, they just get a lot of gold - both directly (mines, adjacency, Trade Routes, unit kills) and indirectly (discount on gold purchases, Commercial Hub is half price). But there’s no real strategy to get said extra gold - just build cities in the desert.

    The production Malus is... a bit tedious, really. Slow starts. Slow building walls (which you can’t buy with gold). Can’t benefit from % production cards. Projects are weaker. Chopping will be a pain.

    The only interesting bit is Trade Routes from Golden Ages. Not massive, but different, and bit of an extra reason to grab Golden Ages.

    Sorry, but really they just seem kind of boring. No idea if they’re OP or not (my guess is “not”). My problem is more I just don’t think they’ll be interesting to play.

    They’ll be a disaster if the AI plays them. They’ll have no units, and when you war with them, the gold you get from peace will be nuts.

    I’m also not convinced we needed another Desert Civ.

    FXS might have done more with this. There could have been a lot more play mixing faith and gold. Maybe they could use gold in a way other can’t, and or just flat out couldn’t build units. Hmm. Well, not every Civ can be a winner.

    I still think Canada and Moari are awesome.
     

Share This Page