Maniac1 - OBC Babylon Space Race
- Thread starter ToddMarshall
- Start date
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Well, as I'm busy and ridgelake is out of town you have till monday night. I'm not worried about the pace of this game, especially over Thanksgiving weekend here in the states. Remember, you get 20 turns, then it goes to 10 each.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Just a bump to keep this on the front page an a reminder:
Skyfish <-- UP NOW (has till midnight GMT Tue/Wed to play) 20 turns
Maniac <-- On Deck
Ridgelake <-- In the Hole
If skyfish hasn't played by then I will grab it and play TEN turns and then he can play 20 after me.
Skyfish <-- UP NOW (has till midnight GMT Tue/Wed to play) 20 turns
Maniac <-- On Deck
Ridgelake <-- In the Hole
If skyfish hasn't played by then I will grab it and play TEN turns and then he can play 20 after me.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
not sure if i can get to this tonite or not. i will try. if i dont and you can get it before i post im playing you go ahead, otherwise ill have turns back within 48 hours.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I got it!
Wasn't able to finish last night. Finishing now
Wasn't able to finish last night. Finishing now
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Preturn - The build orders all look good 
.
Militarily we are -_-. I was hoping I'd have more Cavs to work with, but 5 will just have to do. I'm inclined to go to war sooner rather than later. We need to get our cities and get them growing. With our religious nature and our tiny towns, I'm seriously considering using Feudalisim for a short period. This will allow us to pop rush those temples and rax before switching to republic. As for war, I decide to adopt a "no time like the present" stance
.
Diplomatically I'm almost stunned we somehow avoided meeting the Americans (I do know enough of the shape of the land to have a rough idea where they are). I note that Zulu are up Engeneering (strange choice), Inca are down a couple techs, and everyone else is at parity.
We have an extra spice laying arround so i ship it to the Zulu for what they'll pay, which is 7gpt and 8g. They had cash but I don't consider taking gpt an exploit here because we've pumped up the AI coffers plenty by paying it out. FYI, as long as we aren't trading gold for gpt we are allowed to take gpt payments. Besides, these allways come with a risk of the deal being broken by war declaration.
As far as the temple whips, the one completes next turn anyhow, and the size 1 city will finish it before it grows. Nothing we can do about that, so it's fine.
I move a bow next Almrikah and see it is defended by a vet SPEAR!
[1] Capital - Bow -> Bow
Tiw - Temple -> Rax
Diplo - Nothing
I move the bow out, I dial up Temu and declare war.
Battle to raze Ulan.
Vet AC vs vet pike redlines but wins
Vet AC vs reg pike wins 3-4
Reg AC does zero but retreats
Vet AC vs reg pike wins 3-1 and Razes Ulan capturing 2 workers and a cat.
Clean out a maurarding Archer
Our bows moving next to Almrikah reveal it is still defended by a vet SPEAR!
IT - Zulu declare war on Hitites Hopefully they'll be too busy to mess with us now! Annother Ancient Cav is born!
A small counter attack force shows up. I believe we can handle it. One MDI dies to a Bow w/o a scratch on the bow.
[2] Capital Bow -> Bow
Battle for Almrikah
Cat hits vet spear revealing a reg spear
Vet bow vs reg spear does one, dies, promotes it
Vet bow vs 3hp vet spear does 2 dies, promotes it
Vet bow vs 3hp vet spear wins 3-2
Vet bow vs 2hp eliete spear dies 0-4
Vet bow vs 2hp eliete spear wins 2-2 and the city is ours! and it has horses and furs hooked up! Lux tax back to 10% saving us a bundle.
Take out a counter attacking sword
Diplo - Spare Furs to the Zulu for 7gpt and 8g
IT - Nothing
[3] Bab - Bow -> Bow
Ola - Temple -> Spear
Nothing. We are "gassed" and resting, repositioning.
Diplo - Nothing
[4] Babylon - Bow -> Bow
Battle for Kazaan
Cat hits Reg Pike revealing a reg pike below
Vet AC vs Reg Pike wins 3-2
Vet AC vs 2hp pike wins 2-3 capturing Kazan and a Mongol slave!
Clean out an archer, Lose a cav cleaning out a spear but a bow finishes it off.
Our first Bow arrives at Ta-Tu and, as expected, sights a vet pike.
IT - Nothing
[5] Bab- Bow -> Spear
Zulu, Portugal, and Hittites now have Engeneering and Monotheisim. Everything we have isn't enough to pry either lose
. The mongols will now chat and would be delighted to cough up Monotheisim for peace. They do NOT yet have Engeneering. We haven't finished our little land grab yet anyhow.
IT - Mongols and Zulu MA vs Hittites
[6] Bab - Spear -> Spear
Battle for Ta-Tu
Cat hits Vet Pike revealing annother
Vet AC vs Vet Pike Redlines but wins
Vet AV vs reg pike does 1 and dies
Reg AC vs 2hp pike wins 2-2
Vet bow vs vet spear wins 4-0
And.... that's it till more help ( three bows and an AC) arrives next turn. Dang. With that city issuing FOUR units out to counter attack I didn't expect it to have FOUR MORE defenders
Mongols are now willing to cough up Monotheisim AND Engeneering. Maybe this "library" thing is overrated (actually it isn't because of the bonus income, but still)
Nothing shaking Diplomatically.
IT - Annother AC is born
[7] Babylon - Spear -> Spear
Ola - Spear -> Spear
Ola expands boarders giving us a Horse to trade
Amlarika ends resistance, whips up a Temple.
Battle for Ta-Tu. Part 2
Cat hits reg pike and it still shows as the defender. IT's probably all that is left there now
Vet Bow vs 2hp pike wins 2-2 and, yup, thats all folks!!! Ta-Tu is OURS
We are allowed to continue the war if we want since this is the first expansion war with them. I search for any reason to do so and find none.
I dial up Genghis and take everything he has for peace, which turns out to be Engeneering, Monotheisim and 8g.
I note the Zulu now have Invention... Man this could get Ugly with the Zulu running rampant. Zulu lack horses, but only offer 150g for them. I decide not to sell yet. Zulu are powerful enough w/o horses. Hittites also lack horses but offer next to nothing.
I could revolt now, but I decide to hold off until I can rush the temple in Ta-Tu via pop
IT - Mongols complete Great Library
[8] Tiw - Barracks -> Duct
Almirikah Temple -> Marketplace
Resistance in Ta-Tu ends. Temple rushed
I do some math and decide that right now Republic is roughly = to Feudalisim, therefore there is no sense going Feudalisim. I pull the trigger and revolt. We draw 2 turns.
Diplo - Nothing
IT - Portugal competes Sun Tsu's
[9] Ta-Tu - Temple -> Grainery
Diplo -Nothing
IT - Zulu cascade to Leo's
[10] We come out in Republic. Income is now 80gpt and the Capital is now cranking 32spt. Zulu have started winning vs Hitites, razing one of their core cities. This could get ugly with the Zulu as a superpower im afraid. This is NOT what we want to see this early. If the Zulu, or anyone else demands us, do NOT cave. We may need to work out a way to nibble off the Zulu at some point. Good thing domination is off.
Good Luck Skyfish!
The Save
. Militarily we are -_-. I was hoping I'd have more Cavs to work with, but 5 will just have to do. I'm inclined to go to war sooner rather than later. We need to get our cities and get them growing. With our religious nature and our tiny towns, I'm seriously considering using Feudalisim for a short period. This will allow us to pop rush those temples and rax before switching to republic. As for war, I decide to adopt a "no time like the present" stance
.Diplomatically I'm almost stunned we somehow avoided meeting the Americans (I do know enough of the shape of the land to have a rough idea where they are). I note that Zulu are up Engeneering (strange choice), Inca are down a couple techs, and everyone else is at parity.
We have an extra spice laying arround so i ship it to the Zulu for what they'll pay, which is 7gpt and 8g. They had cash but I don't consider taking gpt an exploit here because we've pumped up the AI coffers plenty by paying it out. FYI, as long as we aren't trading gold for gpt we are allowed to take gpt payments. Besides, these allways come with a risk of the deal being broken by war declaration.
As far as the temple whips, the one completes next turn anyhow, and the size 1 city will finish it before it grows. Nothing we can do about that, so it's fine.
I move a bow next Almrikah and see it is defended by a vet SPEAR!
[1] Capital - Bow -> Bow
Tiw - Temple -> Rax
Diplo - Nothing
I move the bow out, I dial up Temu and declare war.
Battle to raze Ulan.
Vet AC vs vet pike redlines but wins
Vet AC vs reg pike wins 3-4
Reg AC does zero but retreats
Vet AC vs reg pike wins 3-1 and Razes Ulan capturing 2 workers and a cat.
Clean out a maurarding Archer
Our bows moving next to Almrikah reveal it is still defended by a vet SPEAR!
IT - Zulu declare war on Hitites
Hopefully they'll be too busy to mess with us now! Annother Ancient Cav is born!A small counter attack force shows up. I believe we can handle it. One MDI dies to a Bow w/o a scratch on the bow.
[2] Capital Bow -> Bow
Battle for Almrikah
Cat hits vet spear revealing a reg spear
Vet bow vs reg spear does one, dies, promotes it
Vet bow vs 3hp vet spear does 2 dies, promotes it
Vet bow vs 3hp vet spear wins 3-2
Vet bow vs 2hp eliete spear dies 0-4
Vet bow vs 2hp eliete spear wins 2-2 and the city is ours! and it has horses and furs hooked up! Lux tax back to 10% saving us a bundle.
Take out a counter attacking sword
Diplo - Spare Furs to the Zulu for 7gpt and 8g
IT - Nothing
[3] Bab - Bow -> Bow
Ola - Temple -> Spear
Nothing. We are "gassed" and resting, repositioning.
Diplo - Nothing
[4] Babylon - Bow -> Bow
Battle for Kazaan
Cat hits Reg Pike revealing a reg pike below
Vet AC vs Reg Pike wins 3-2
Vet AC vs 2hp pike wins 2-3 capturing Kazan and a Mongol slave!
Clean out an archer, Lose a cav cleaning out a spear but a bow finishes it off.
Our first Bow arrives at Ta-Tu and, as expected, sights a vet pike.
IT - Nothing
[5] Bab- Bow -> Spear
Zulu, Portugal, and Hittites now have Engeneering and Monotheisim. Everything we have isn't enough to pry either lose
. The mongols will now chat and would be delighted to cough up Monotheisim for peace. They do NOT yet have Engeneering. We haven't finished our little land grab yet anyhow.IT - Mongols and Zulu MA vs Hittites
[6] Bab - Spear -> Spear
Battle for Ta-Tu
Cat hits Vet Pike revealing annother
Vet AC vs Vet Pike Redlines but wins
Vet AV vs reg pike does 1 and dies
Reg AC vs 2hp pike wins 2-2
Vet bow vs vet spear wins 4-0
And.... that's it till more help ( three bows and an AC) arrives next turn. Dang. With that city issuing FOUR units out to counter attack I didn't expect it to have FOUR MORE defenders
Mongols are now willing to cough up Monotheisim AND Engeneering. Maybe this "library" thing is overrated (actually it isn't because of the bonus income, but still)
Nothing shaking Diplomatically.
IT - Annother AC is born
[7] Babylon - Spear -> Spear
Ola - Spear -> Spear
Ola expands boarders giving us a Horse to trade
Amlarika ends resistance, whips up a Temple.
Battle for Ta-Tu. Part 2
Cat hits reg pike and it still shows as the defender.
IT's probably all that is left there nowVet Bow vs 2hp pike wins 2-2 and, yup, thats all folks!!! Ta-Tu is OURS
We are allowed to continue the war if we want since this is the first expansion war with them. I search for any reason to do so and find none.
I dial up Genghis and take everything he has for peace, which turns out to be Engeneering, Monotheisim and 8g.
I note the Zulu now have Invention... Man this could get Ugly with the Zulu running rampant. Zulu lack horses, but only offer 150g for them. I decide not to sell yet. Zulu are powerful enough w/o horses. Hittites also lack horses but offer next to nothing.
I could revolt now, but I decide to hold off until I can rush the temple in Ta-Tu via pop
IT - Mongols complete Great Library
[8] Tiw - Barracks -> Duct
Almirikah Temple -> Marketplace
Resistance in Ta-Tu ends. Temple rushed
I do some math and decide that right now Republic is roughly = to Feudalisim, therefore there is no sense going Feudalisim. I pull the trigger and revolt. We draw 2 turns
.Diplo - Nothing
IT - Portugal competes Sun Tsu's
[9] Ta-Tu - Temple -> Grainery
Diplo -Nothing
IT - Zulu cascade to Leo's
[10] We come out in Republic. Income is now 80gpt and the Capital is now cranking 32spt. Zulu have started winning vs Hitites, razing one of their core cities. This could get ugly with the Zulu as a superpower im afraid. This is NOT what we want to see this early. If the Zulu, or anyone else demands us, do NOT cave. We may need to work out a way to nibble off the Zulu at some point. Good thing domination is off.
Good Luck Skyfish!
The Save
Nice set of turns, Todd! Glad we got OUR lands now.
Lets get libraries sooner rather than later in our northern towns. It will be very helpful to get those borders closed. I was a bit surprised that you whipped temples instead of libraries as they cost the same pop. Regardless, lets get the strong culture going to close those borders ASAP.
Lets get libraries sooner rather than later in our northern towns. It will be very helpful to get those borders closed. I was a bit surprised that you whipped temples instead of libraries as they cost the same pop. Regardless, lets get the strong culture going to close those borders ASAP.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I might have made a mistake with the last whip, but Amlarikah cost only one pop point because they had amassed 10 shields while in resistance. On the other hand, Tatu is our largest city, it had SEVEN resisters out of SEVEN when I took it and it is first ring to Mongolia so I considered we wanted Temple/Cathedral there. It is also more corrupt than I expected. It really needs a Courthouse
Edit: actually, I dono what I was thinking. We have 5 lux (or will when Kazaan gets roaded up. BTW, kazan needs to rushbuy its temple now. Couldn't whip as it was size 1. Remember not to work the citizen till it gets roaded up to Babylon) so with markets/temples we'll be content to size 11. We should look into getting one lux of somone like the zulu, then we wouldn't need cathedrals at all till hospitals. We are now bigger than Inca and Mongolia, probably bigger than America, and I'm willing to bet bigger than the Hittites before long. I think ridgelake is right that we want to be doing self research asap because right now the Zulu are running away with it, however we definately need marketplaces first in the north, then probably library/uni. Ta-Tu and Tiw came with markets intact so that is a big help. I was building a duct in Tiw, but thats definately Vetoable to Library. Babylon need that market NOW though, don't take it off that build.
Edit: actually, I dono what I was thinking. We have 5 lux (or will when Kazaan gets roaded up. BTW, kazan needs to rushbuy its temple now. Couldn't whip as it was size 1. Remember not to work the citizen till it gets roaded up to Babylon) so with markets/temples we'll be content to size 11. We should look into getting one lux of somone like the zulu, then we wouldn't need cathedrals at all till hospitals. We are now bigger than Inca and Mongolia, probably bigger than America, and I'm willing to bet bigger than the Hittites before long. I think ridgelake is right that we want to be doing self research asap because right now the Zulu are running away with it, however we definately need marketplaces first in the north, then probably library/uni. Ta-Tu and Tiw came with markets intact so that is a big help. I was building a duct in Tiw, but thats definately Vetoable to Library. Babylon need that market NOW though, don't take it off that build.
Well, since we are in republic now, we would need cash instead of population to rush things. So the temple rush in Kazan could probably happen in the interturn.
Lets be very wary of trading a lot of lux to the Zulus. They are the top dog and giving them lots of productive citizens is not going to help everyone catch up. Also, be very careful about trading to a civ that is getting rolled up. If the Zulus are bowling over the Hittites, dont make a 20 turn trade with them. We will need our rep.
Lets be very wary of trading a lot of lux to the Zulus. They are the top dog and giving them lots of productive citizens is not going to help everyone catch up. Also, be very careful about trading to a civ that is getting rolled up. If the Zulus are bowling over the Hittites, dont make a 20 turn trade with them. We will need our rep.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Biggest problem with not trading with the Zulu is that everyone else is basically broke or won't offer much. It's a catch-22.
As an example, the Zulu offered 7gpt and 8 g (which works out to 288g with the bug) for the lux. no one else would offer more than 60g. I couldn't see trading them anywhere else right now
As an example, the Zulu offered 7gpt and 8 g (which works out to 288g with the bug) for the lux. no one else would offer more than 60g. I couldn't see trading them anywhere else right now
Almarikh : switched from Rax to Library for culture, both it and TaTu need expansion to get common borders.
Kazan : Rushbuy Temple for 104g.
Tiwanaku : switch from Acqueduct to Library.
I send a bowman to explore teh South we need to find the Americans.
1 : Kazan -> Library (we are under cultural pressure from Hovd).
Oho our scouting bowman sees a huge Mongol SoD coming our way ! Could it be for us ? Their ennemy is in the SOuth ?
Certainly going after Hittites.
2 : Move forces towards Olian. The Incas get dragged into the war. They ally vs the Hittites with teh Mongols and Zulus.
3 : Incas now have money so I grab it and sell Engineering for 123g and 1 gpt.
The Hittites need horses and have 2 workers available, after a long hesitation I decide to sell it to them hoping they wont get
destroyed within 20 turns and that it will help them survive.
I ask Mongol to leave our territory in order to slow the war vs Hittites down.
4 : Market completes in Babylon, Library in Tiwanaku, a deal ends and we make 104gpt
We approach 1000g, I decide to get a haed start
and make full use of our GA, I rush the MP in Olian, the lib in Almarikh and Kazan, the courthouse in TaTu !
5: All buildings complete we get major border exapansions. Moving Cavs out of TaTu in order to form a moving wall vs settlers.
At least an attempt..we have a gap between Kazan and TaTu
Our Golden Age ends and we go from 110 to 76gpt, with some post GA mm it climbs to 79gpt, not bad
6: Quiet turn we have an ancient cav watching the Mongol SoD by the Hittites capital. Babylon Lib -> cathedral
7 : a huge Zulu SoD of MedInf takes out the Hittite capital after the Mongol SoD of elite swords and archers fails.
We perform a preventive block of Cavs in front of the new capital.
The SoDs turn away...
Lib in Olian rushed. Lib in TaTu rushed.
Chivalry arrives Zulus and Portugal let themselves buy in to the Hittite war and are now up Invention and Chiv. Mongols have both to.
I get an RoP with Hittites for change.
And then this happens :
8 :
Zulus declare on Mongols, that's great news. Kazan is finally connected giving us Iron and 5th lux !
I can get some lux deals but next turn the Cath in Babylon completes so we wont actually need that 6th lux, I pass for now.
9:
10: I spot a Zulu Musket, they are racing up the MilTrad tree...Our luxes go down to 0% we make 100gpt
Buying Invention is still outrageous, it would cost us 2 luxes, 20gpt plus our whole treasury of 540g !
So I crank up science and choose Theology, we might get a 2fer for it later but more because we want Unis and banks, it s due in 9 at -4gpt it can go down to 7 at -35gpt, up to next leader to choose.
Babylon has only Collosseum to build, I go to Galley first as we need more map knowledge.
We have Libraries everywhere, I chose Granaries as our build order for the small cities, we have a size 3, a size 4 and a size 1
-> we need growth and fast.
Tiwa is on Acqueduct and will complete before growth to 6 I would leave it there, a Cath can be rushed after it completes, as there's Cultural pressure on it s border.
We have Markets in 4 out of 6 cities.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OBC1-150_BC.zip
Kazan : Rushbuy Temple for 104g.
Tiwanaku : switch from Acqueduct to Library.
I send a bowman to explore teh South we need to find the Americans.
1 : Kazan -> Library (we are under cultural pressure from Hovd).
Oho our scouting bowman sees a huge Mongol SoD coming our way ! Could it be for us ? Their ennemy is in the SOuth ?
Certainly going after Hittites.
2 : Move forces towards Olian. The Incas get dragged into the war. They ally vs the Hittites with teh Mongols and Zulus.
3 : Incas now have money so I grab it and sell Engineering for 123g and 1 gpt.
The Hittites need horses and have 2 workers available, after a long hesitation I decide to sell it to them hoping they wont get
destroyed within 20 turns and that it will help them survive.
I ask Mongol to leave our territory in order to slow the war vs Hittites down.
4 : Market completes in Babylon, Library in Tiwanaku, a deal ends and we make 104gpt
We approach 1000g, I decide to get a haed startand make full use of our GA, I rush the MP in Olian, the lib in Almarikh and Kazan, the courthouse in TaTu !
5: All buildings complete we get major border exapansions. Moving Cavs out of TaTu in order to form a moving wall vs settlers.
At least an attempt..we have a gap between Kazan and TaTu
Our Golden Age ends and we go from 110 to 76gpt, with some post GA mm it climbs to 79gpt, not bad
6: Quiet turn we have an ancient cav watching the Mongol SoD by the Hittites capital. Babylon Lib -> cathedral
7 : a huge Zulu SoD of MedInf takes out the Hittite capital after the Mongol SoD of elite swords and archers fails.
We perform a preventive block of Cavs in front of the new capital.
The SoDs turn away...
Lib in Olian rushed. Lib in TaTu rushed.
Chivalry arrives Zulus and Portugal let themselves buy in to the Hittite war and are now up Invention and Chiv. Mongols have both to.
I get an RoP with Hittites for change.
And then this happens :
8 :
Zulus declare on Mongols, that's great news. Kazan is finally connected giving us Iron and 5th lux !I can get some lux deals but next turn the Cath in Babylon completes so we wont actually need that 6th lux, I pass for now.
9:
10: I spot a Zulu Musket, they are racing up the MilTrad tree...Our luxes go down to 0% we make 100gpt
Buying Invention is still outrageous, it would cost us 2 luxes, 20gpt plus our whole treasury of 540g !
So I crank up science and choose Theology, we might get a 2fer for it later but more because we want Unis and banks, it s due in 9 at -4gpt it can go down to 7 at -35gpt, up to next leader to choose.
Babylon has only Collosseum to build, I go to Galley first as we need more map knowledge.
We have Libraries everywhere, I chose Granaries as our build order for the small cities, we have a size 3, a size 4 and a size 1
-> we need growth and fast.
Tiwa is on Acqueduct and will complete before growth to 6 I would leave it there, a Cath can be rushed after it completes, as there's Cultural pressure on it s border.
We have Markets in 4 out of 6 cities.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/OBC1-150_BC.zip
Nice turn, Skyfish. Particularly blocking off the Hittite capitol. I about screamed when I saw that you traded them horses. Blocking off the capitol hopefully will save our rep. Lets hope the Incans dont take it out.
I got it. It may be Monday before I can get to it though. Its in the queue behind LK56.
Particularly blocking off the Hittite capitol. I about screamed when I saw that you traded them horses. Blocking off the capitol hopefully will save our rep. Lets hope the Incans dont take it out.I got it. It may be Monday before I can get to it though. Its in the queue behind LK56.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
We can quit trying to find the Americans. Hit F10. There are no americans there. Looks like the Zulu swallowed them whole and we just didn't get a popup that they were gone.
Then hit F4. Look at everyones cities. Hitties 1, Inca and Mongols 4, Babylon and Portugal 6, Zulu SEVENTEEN!!! Thats Zulu 17, Rest of World 21. This IS going to get ugly and thank god domination is off.
In my tests and in my one completed game of this ages ago, I've never had an AI become anything like this dominant until well into the next age. And it definately wasn't a max aggressive AI either. In hindsight, I should have taken advantage of the new aggressivness setting and made eveyone minimal agression.
Check out the power graph also. If we aren't 2nd in power, we are close to it. It's about a dead heat with the Inca and Portugeese. Conclusion here is we ARE going to get attacked soon, most probably by the Zulu. We don't have a whole lot of options here. We can't declare on them by our rules. When they come for us, we need to raze as many cities of theirs as we can, and probably try to get them under dogpile. I think we should wave the RoP restriction and just allow us to get them. I'm also going to throw out this idea. Maybe we should allow city captures provided we immediately gift them to somone else. This game isn't going to reach the modern age if the zulu arent slowed down somehow.
As for the Hittites horeses deal, it scares me. The Inca will probably eliminate them. One thing I see we should do is move a unit from Olla on the IT to expand that wall. Otherwise the Zulu will just try to go arround.
I'd like to hear everyones input on the city gifting idea.
GL Ridgelake
Then hit F4. Look at everyones cities. Hitties 1, Inca and Mongols 4, Babylon and Portugal 6, Zulu SEVENTEEN!!! Thats Zulu 17, Rest of World 21. This IS going to get ugly and thank god domination is off.
In my tests and in my one completed game of this ages ago, I've never had an AI become anything like this dominant until well into the next age. And it definately wasn't a max aggressive AI either. In hindsight, I should have taken advantage of the new aggressivness setting and made eveyone minimal agression.
Check out the power graph also. If we aren't 2nd in power, we are close to it. It's about a dead heat with the Inca and Portugeese. Conclusion here is we ARE going to get attacked soon, most probably by the Zulu. We don't have a whole lot of options here. We can't declare on them by our rules. When they come for us, we need to raze as many cities of theirs as we can, and probably try to get them under dogpile. I think we should wave the RoP restriction and just allow us to get them. I'm also going to throw out this idea. Maybe we should allow city captures provided we immediately gift them to somone else. This game isn't going to reach the modern age if the zulu arent slowed down somehow.
As for the Hittites horeses deal, it scares me. The Inca will probably eliminate them
. One thing I see we should do is move a unit from Olla on the IT to expand that wall. Otherwise the Zulu will just try to go arround. I'd like to hear everyones input on the city gifting idea.
GL Ridgelake
A zulu dogpile will help more than anything. They will definitely come for us in time. But if they are already with muskets, we will have a hard time attacking them. From looking at our lands, I doubt that we will have saltpeter to make our own muskets. Fortunately we can get pikes and longbows. Trebuckets will help a lot too. It will most likely be a defensive war against the Zulus for a long time.
One of the best things that we can do to slow down the Zulus is to not trade them luxes. They are getting a ton of productive citizens from our luxes. Remember, the AI does not raise the lux tax to keep peace, only hire clowns. Much of their population will come offline without our luxes.
I hope to play tonight. Mrs. Ridgelake was grumbling about needing the computer. So I can't guarantee my availability tonight. Will try.
One of the best things that we can do to slow down the Zulus is to not trade them luxes. They are getting a ton of productive citizens from our luxes. Remember, the AI does not raise the lux tax to keep peace, only hire clowns. Much of their population will come offline without our luxes.
I hope to play tonight. Mrs. Ridgelake was grumbling about needing the computer. So I can't guarantee my availability tonight. Will try.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Well as I said it is a catch 22. Everyone else is too broke to pay for all those lux. We are kinda damned if we do and damned if we dont
I agree with Ridgelake on the dogpile. That is the one thing that will slow them down.....that and cutting off the luxuries.
As for the gifting of cities, I vote for sticking to the variant rules as originally posted. If we lose, so be it. :suicide:
Changing horses midstream doesn't trip my trigger. <shrug>
If the majority of the team wants to do this though, you won't hear any whining from me.
My .02 cents worth
As for the gifting of cities, I vote for sticking to the variant rules as originally posted. If we lose, so be it. :suicide:
Changing horses midstream doesn't trip my trigger. <shrug>
If the majority of the team wants to do this though, you won't hear any whining from me.
My .02 cents worth
Maniac OBC 150BC
We now have our beloved lands! All of our cities, except Babylon, need many improvements. We also need many workers! Meanwhile, our trade rep is in grave danger. I wake a bowman in Olla and send him to help block off the only Hittite city. There are about 10 Zulu units going after it. Can I save it in time?
We badly need workers. We have only 2 native workers and about 8 slaves. We need more. The only realistic place to build them sooner rather than later is in Tiw. So I swap its duct over to a granary. Due in 2.
Olla and Almar need granaries as well. Fortunately they are on rivers and dont need ducts. I will rush those when they get close to their growth. Ta-Tu will continue with its cathedral. Babylon will go to military. A couple of pikes per city will be a start.
The Incans will pay 4gpt and 16gold for Ivory. Done.
I notice that Babylon is at an obscene 95gpt income pre-corruption.
IT Shaka wants 7gpt to renew our Ivory deal. Uh .not right now, amigo. I want you to meet my friend, Bozo. He is a great guy!
The Hittites lose a spear to an Incan MDI. The pike moves southeast onto the road and blocks my approaching troops from further walling off the town. The Hittities counter with a LB and kill a MDI. Most of the large contingent of Zulus go east to help with the Mongols. But the Incans move more troops in for attack next turn. I doubt that it the city will hold.
130BC (1) Get a couple more troops to surround the Hittite city. I now have 6 tiles blocked around it. The problem is that the Incans have access to it. And the Zulus have 4 more troops behind them if they somehow move out.
IT The Hittites survived against the Incans. And the Incans moved away and provided an opening for the Zulus. The Zulus put 5 MDI next to the town. It will fall next turn, taking our rep with it. Nothing that I can do to stop it.
110BC (2)
IT Shaka wants to renew our furs deal. Uh ..again meet Bozo, wont you? Shaka takes out the Hittites.
They also move 7 units next to Olla. The Portugese have 5 units coming that way too.
90BC (3) I swap Olla to walls, flushing 5 shields. It is too late for next turn, however.
Indeed, our rep is toast. Shaka wont accept gpt. So I cant wrap up Shaka in a long term gpt deal. And he wont pay for a lux with straight gold.
The Mongols want 6 gpt for horses. I would do this except we may lose 1 of our horses next turn if Shaka attacks. I am too late for the walls in Olla.
I pray, as I hit [enter] that Shaka does not attack next turn.
IT He does not. But he is marching into our territory.
70BC (4) Tiwa builds worker, starts a horse. We have GOT to have more military. Olla finishes walls, starts on a pike. Rush granary in Almar for 120 gold.
IT the Zulus pull the Incans into an MA against the Mongols.
50BC (5) Almar finishes granary, starts walls. It appears that the Zulus are merely marching across our lands to get to the Mongols.
IT Portugal declares war on the Zulus!
30BC (6)
IT Incans join the Zulus against Portugal.
10BC (7) Shaka has 3 workers for sale. We have 274 gold. That isnt enough for 2. So I buy 1 for 144 gold. He won't take gpt or luxes for them.
To help the Mongols, I send them horses and wines for gems. The gems helps keep us completely happy.
10AD (8) Almar walls (with lumber help) to rax.
Theology due up next turn, I reduce slider to make 18gpt next turn and still get the tech.
Ta Tu Cathedral to Granary. Tiw pike to worker.
30AD (9) Theology to the Mongols for Invention, Chivalry, 2 gpt and 66 gold (all he had). To Portugal with 135 gold for Gunpowder. Shaka has Chemistry beyond it @ monopoly. So Theology to Shaka for Saltpeter and 370 gold. (We have no native salt.) Invention to the Incans for 70 gold.
Research on Education, due in 14 @ 15gpt. I want a bit of gold to help rush things and upgrade.
Ouch, it is 90 gold to upgrade pikes to muskets. I decide to upgrade 3, or enough to border the Zulu lands.
50AD (10) Get a ROP with Portugal so we can continue scouting.
Chops to help granaries in Olla and Kazan should finish next turn. Right now, we are ducking under the radar. We are the strongest culturally and are sitting back letting the world march on by. The iron that completes roading in a couple of turns should fetch a decent price.
I realize that I forgot to improve the BG next to Almar. It should probably be irrigated to help with growth.
The Game
We now have our beloved lands! All of our cities, except Babylon, need many improvements. We also need many workers! Meanwhile, our trade rep is in grave danger. I wake a bowman in Olla and send him to help block off the only Hittite city. There are about 10 Zulu units going after it. Can I save it in time?
We badly need workers. We have only 2 native workers and about 8 slaves. We need more. The only realistic place to build them sooner rather than later is in Tiw. So I swap its duct over to a granary. Due in 2.
Olla and Almar need granaries as well. Fortunately they are on rivers and dont need ducts. I will rush those when they get close to their growth. Ta-Tu will continue with its cathedral. Babylon will go to military. A couple of pikes per city will be a start.
The Incans will pay 4gpt and 16gold for Ivory. Done.
I notice that Babylon is at an obscene 95gpt income pre-corruption.
IT Shaka wants 7gpt to renew our Ivory deal. Uh .not right now, amigo. I want you to meet my friend, Bozo. He is a great guy!
The Hittites lose a spear to an Incan MDI. The pike moves southeast onto the road and blocks my approaching troops from further walling off the town. The Hittities counter with a LB and kill a MDI. Most of the large contingent of Zulus go east to help with the Mongols. But the Incans move more troops in for attack next turn. I doubt that it the city will hold.
130BC (1) Get a couple more troops to surround the Hittite city. I now have 6 tiles blocked around it. The problem is that the Incans have access to it. And the Zulus have 4 more troops behind them if they somehow move out.
IT The Hittites survived against the Incans. And the Incans moved away and provided an opening for the Zulus. The Zulus put 5 MDI next to the town. It will fall next turn, taking our rep with it. Nothing that I can do to stop it.
110BC (2)
IT Shaka wants to renew our furs deal. Uh ..again meet Bozo, wont you? Shaka takes out the Hittites.
They also move 7 units next to Olla. The Portugese have 5 units coming that way too.
90BC (3) I swap Olla to walls, flushing 5 shields. It is too late for next turn, however.
Indeed, our rep is toast. Shaka wont accept gpt. So I cant wrap up Shaka in a long term gpt deal. And he wont pay for a lux with straight gold.
The Mongols want 6 gpt for horses. I would do this except we may lose 1 of our horses next turn if Shaka attacks. I am too late for the walls in Olla.
I pray, as I hit [enter] that Shaka does not attack next turn.
IT He does not. But he is marching into our territory.
70BC (4) Tiwa builds worker, starts a horse. We have GOT to have more military. Olla finishes walls, starts on a pike. Rush granary in Almar for 120 gold.
IT the Zulus pull the Incans into an MA against the Mongols.
50BC (5) Almar finishes granary, starts walls. It appears that the Zulus are merely marching across our lands to get to the Mongols.
IT Portugal declares war on the Zulus!
30BC (6)
IT Incans join the Zulus against Portugal.
10BC (7) Shaka has 3 workers for sale. We have 274 gold. That isnt enough for 2. So I buy 1 for 144 gold. He won't take gpt or luxes for them.
To help the Mongols, I send them horses and wines for gems. The gems helps keep us completely happy.
10AD (8) Almar walls (with lumber help) to rax.
Theology due up next turn, I reduce slider to make 18gpt next turn and still get the tech.
Ta Tu Cathedral to Granary. Tiw pike to worker.
30AD (9) Theology to the Mongols for Invention, Chivalry, 2 gpt and 66 gold (all he had). To Portugal with 135 gold for Gunpowder. Shaka has Chemistry beyond it @ monopoly. So Theology to Shaka for Saltpeter and 370 gold. (We have no native salt.) Invention to the Incans for 70 gold.
Research on Education, due in 14 @ 15gpt. I want a bit of gold to help rush things and upgrade.
Ouch, it is 90 gold to upgrade pikes to muskets. I decide to upgrade 3, or enough to border the Zulu lands.
50AD (10) Get a ROP with Portugal so we can continue scouting.
Chops to help granaries in Olla and Kazan should finish next turn. Right now, we are ducking under the radar. We are the strongest culturally and are sitting back letting the world march on by. The iron that completes roading in a couple of turns should fetch a decent price.
I realize that I forgot to improve the BG next to Almar. It should probably be irrigated to help with growth.
The Game
