Many Leaders Game - Discussion Thread

[r_rolo1]

Here we go again...

My 2 eurocent:

Clean game: SE without cottages and CE without GP farm

Besides that QSH is fine by me.....

 

[pholkhero]

fwiw, i'm inclined just to let people throw out ideas and debate for a few days, and then just unilaterally decide which road I like best

 

[pawelo]

I agree - CE means you can't run specialists, only Citizens.
All GP points generated by wonders are yours, as well as specialists provided by the GL and the AW.
You can't merge your GP nor Great Generals, but you don't have to kill them (hurts too bad )

As for the SE, that means no cottages at all in your cities.

Otherwise we will quickly go into a sort of Hybrid Eco.

I would also gladly explore these issues, but maybe it's not the place here :
- Pure cultural victory with a CE - no GA farm, no bombing, no hammer/culture building, no slider (?)
- Space victory with pure SE - well, for this one we are well in the subject

 

[TriviAl]

My gut inclinations would be:

No cottages for SE. (Although as an SE player, I'd dearly love one cottage city as a bureaucratic capital ).

CE is a bit more difficult - at a glance, no specialists might seem the obvious choice - but then what about 'free' specialists - e.g. the Great Library or the French Salon?

Edit: Or as Ad Hoc pointed out in the post below - mercantilism or SoL.

 

[Ad Hoc]

In the Game in general are citizens counted as specialists, ie does rep give them +3 and does Sistine give +2

With CE no Mercantilism and no SoL

with SE no working cottaged squares in captured cities and must be pillaged ASAP

 

[FeedBack]

I've never seen a "normal" game with either cottage only or specialist only cities. Generally speaking, in a CE game people usually have one GP Farm and in a SE game the capital is cottaged.
I think it would be a fair rule. Wonders and techs, of course, can give GPs to the CE ones, but that's how the game was developed. And, IMHO, it would be a fair use of them either merging or lightbulbing wherever and whatever they want.
But.... What am I talking about? I won't be playing anyway!

 

[Kanga_DU]

My feeling is that for a CE any great people gained can be used as seen fit, except for settling.

I agree with the no cottages SE. For the no specialists CE I'd suggest citizens are fine and UBs that give free specialists, but no wonders that provide free specialists.

What the hell, I might as well see how badly I suck at doing a SE - with Russia's Peter I think.

 

[pholkhero]

- Space victory with pure SE - well, for this one we are well in the subject

that's actually further down the list on my future PH games ~ a redux of PH07(?) that we lost. shall i reserve you a spot?

In the Game in general are citizens counted as specialists, ie does rep give them +3 and does Sistine give +2

citizens ARE counted in this regard as specialists.

it seems more people are leaning towards a more restrictive game, and truthfully, that's where i've been leaning all along. however, if others have more arguments, throw them out there.

we'd also be on the honor code for people to go through and turn off any specialists the AI assigns to you.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

we'd also be on the honor code for people to go through and turn off any specialists the AI assigns to you.

Worth reminding people (if it still works) that I beleive if you turn on all 3 of emphasize food, hammers and commerce it will help stop the Guv'nor assiging specialsits. Otherwise for us cottage economy types, there is a real danger we will unwittingly get some specialists assigned by the City guvnor.

It always used to remind me of playing "Whack a mole" if any old fogeys remember it as the Guvonr was continually messing with my gene pool etc by assigning geeks when I didn't want them...

Ralph

p.s I am very much in favour of strict CE vs Strict SE
e.g
No SOL, Mercantilism or building Great Library for CE....
Absolutely no cottages (pillage captured ones) for SE.
Any GP's popping from wonders / techs (other than great generals?) for CE are deleted. (I think CE should be able to research Music first as long as they delete the Artist)

 

[Ad Hoc]

Any GP's popping from wonders / techs (other than great generals?) for CE are deleted. (I think CE should be able to research Music first as long as they delete the Artist)

Does this mean no acadamies from GS as well

No SOL, Mercantilism or building Great Library for CE....

Add ToA to the list

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Does this mean no acadamies from GS as well
Add ToA to the list

IMHO yes if a CE pops a scientist (captured GL being the likely route) then yes the geek gets deleted.

Yes and no building TOA.

Of course as its Pholkhero's game he can decided whatever he wants!!

Ralph

 

[Tatran]

I fully agree on RJ comments.
Í'm willing to sign for a 100% clean CE game.

 

[TriviAl]

I'll be playing the SE version myself... think no cottages seems a sensible rule.

For my 2 cents, it seems fair that the CE guys should get to keep great people they generate from techs or wonders. Just not allowed specialists - either hired or 'freebies' from any sources. IMO, getting the right GPPs from wonders/techs would be part of the CE challenge?

 

[pholkhero]

I fully agree on RJ comments.
Í'm willing to sign for a 100% clean CE game.

w/boobs like that, you can have anything you want

i'm leaning this way as I've been saying so I'll update the roster if that's okay with you ~

also, are these players still interested??
Melhisedek: maybe
Morganknight: Open

 

[Quotey]

I will play if noone wants to take my spot. Also, I'd like to try Suryavarman too.

Now onto trade routes- the Hannibal player wants to fully abuse them, but that doesn't make it a pure CE!

 

[pholkhero]

Roster:
TriviAl: SE Liz
r_rolo: SE QSH
Ad Hoc: SE Ramesses
Quotey: SE Suryavarman
Kanga Du: SE Peter

Ozbenno: CE Liz
pawelo: CE Pacal
The_LastOne: CE Darius
Kodii: CE Dutch
Tatran: CE Wang Kon

Melhisedek: ??
Morganknight: CE Vicky/SE Fred

 

[r_rolo1]

Besides that QSH is fine by me.....

You should really start to read things That question mark on me can go out....

 

[TheLastOne36]

as well as specialists provided by the GL and the AW.

by that you mean "free specialists" from wonders?

You can't merge your GP nor Great Generals, but you don't have to kill them (hurts too bad )

Why GG's? IIRC GG's ONLY provide exp to troops.

I agree with the no cottages SE. For the no specialists CE I'd suggest citizens are fine and UBs that give free specialists, but no wonders that provide free specialists.

Ok. So all CE's are restricted from getting the other bonusus of those wonders?

citizens ARE counted in this regard as specialists.

So we can only work citizens ounce all tiles are worked?

Any GP's popping from wonders / techs (other than great generals?) for CE are deleted. (I think CE should be able to research Music first as long as they delete the Artist)

So no academy's for CE's?

For my 2 cents, it seems fair that the CE guys should get to keep great people they generate from techs or wonders. Just not allowed specialists - either hired or 'freebies' from any sources. IMO, getting the right GPPs from wonders/techs would be part of the CE challenge?

I 100% agree.

Imo here are my rules:

SE:
- No Cottages
- Captured Cottages have to be razed.

CE:
- No Specialists.
- You can do whatever you want with Great People except for Settling.
- You can make an Academy
- You can only Work Citizens after all tiles have been worked.
- You can not get wonders that provide free specialists (i'm most unsure about this one)
- You can not be in a Civic that provides a free specialist (ie: mercentilism)

i want you guys to think of it this way. Would a real player with a CE economy really delete all of his GP's? no. exactly why CE's shouldn't have the rule.

 

[Ozbenno]

I suppose the thing to keep in mind about the rules/restrictions is that everyone is bound by them and as long as each side is equally restricted that's OK.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Also its not about comparing
"How would you optimally set up a Specialist based Economy"
with
" How would an optimal cottage based economy perform"

But what works best
"An economy with absolutely no cottages"
or
"An Empire where specialists other than GG's are forbidden"

Thats why I think tight restrictions are better

Ralph